mrzmaster wrote on 2022-06-13, 16:43:

I just got an X2GS and connected it via USB to my Windows 10 machine with the line out connected to the line in on the computer. When I go to play midi, the playback is only mono. Is this to be expected by design?

hello
not at all, X2GS is definitely stereo, so it must be something in your setup ?
--> 3.5mm connector fully inserted ?
- -> connected to line in and not mic in, in your computer?

Hey, my bad, that was it - the 3.5mm connector wasn't fully inserted. Thanks. That was a knucklehead mistake. 😀

Here's a direct comparison by pc-sound-legacy between X2GS vs SC55,
Descent
https://youtu.be/4Z9lCmOBtGg

That comparison is well done, but doing a direct comparison is complicated by the EQ on the X2GS. The default settings didn't work for me, they made it sound a little blurry / over filter or something compared to the SC55 - same as this comparison. But after messing around with settings I'm happier with it.

Anyway, both sounds great to me 👍

badmojo wrote on 2022-06-25, 21:53:

That comparison is well done, but doing a direct comparison is complicated by the EQ on the X2GS. The default settings didn't work for me, they made it sound a little blurry / over filter or something compared to the SC55 - same as this comparison. But after messing around with settings I'm happier with it.

Anyway, both sounds great to me 👍

Oh great, could you share your preset ? Maybe i can point pcsoundlegacy to it.

Sure thing! Disclaimer first, I don't really know what I'm doing and only used a handful of common game tracks to do my comparisons / tweaking (DOOM, Descent, Warcraft II, Dark Forces, etc). Attached is the preset I'm using and a s/s of the app. I would have liked to have softened the sound a little further, maybe with some filtering, but none of the settings on the right seem to have any effect?

The X2GS still sounds clearer and punchier than a real SC55 of course but I prefer it for what it's worth.

I recorded this on my own board, with my own preset. I think this as close to a real SC-55 as I can do without feedback.. I feel the bass needs a bit of dialing down, real SC-55 recordings are a bit thinner than this.. Have a listen and tell me what you think.

BTW, I went through the SC-55 manual and apparently by default it has 40/127 Reverb and 0/127 Chorus? I was pretty amazed to see it had no Chorus by default. Am I reading it wrong? I thought it was 63/127 and 63/127 for both?..

EDIT: Attachment removed, updated Soundcloud sample links in this post

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-27, 20:27:

...
BTW, I went through the SC-55 manual and apparently by default it has 40/127 Reverb and 0/127 Chorus? I was pretty amazed to see it had no Chorus by default. Am I reading it wrong? I thought it was 63/127 and 63/127 for both?..

40/127 Reverb and 0/127 Chorus values are the per channel default values that can be overridden by sending simple CC# 91/93 channel messages. And they are usually really overridden by each played Midi file. The global effect amount for both Reverb and Chorus is 64/127 and they are very rarely overridden by Midi files (they can be adjusted only by sending SysEx messages) .

Doom sounds very tight on the above recording, I may pull the plug on buying x2gs.

Two questions: is the preset available? What is x3e and how is it different compared to x2gs?

X3E is basically a prototype of X2GS, they are functionally the same.

After listening to it side by side with my SD-35 I decided that the preset was a bit too boomy and I actually went back to the drawing board and revised it tonight, and here is a new recording of Doom E1M1 and Duke3D Grabbag. I think I am quite close to a real Sound Canvas with these. The preset is attached.

EDIT: Attachments removed, updated Soundcloud sample links in this post

Wow yes this sounds close, thanks ! 😀
Further feedback and suggestions/tweaks welcome.
If you are ok with it, appiah4, i could use such preset as default for the X2GS bank.

I will test double blind 2.2 and 3.0, later this week. Subjectively, I like more the boomier sound of 2.2, but I will know for sure after testing.

It would be good to have the reference sc55 audio, but it would need to be at the same volume/loudness, ideally a digital output, in order to focus only on tuning differences. Not sure if this is possible.

OK, so I am starting over.. Why? Because I actually found the default 2 band EQ curve points for the SC-55/88 (200Hz and 3kHz) . For the SC-55 these are preset to +0dB. With the X2GS I'll start at that and adjust until I think both low/high sound similar enough.

So, hold your horses, better things ahead 😁

OK, so.. Just listen to these and tell me whether they would fool you as being recorded from a Sound Canvas or not.

Whether it sounds better or worse than the previous EQ settings is another discussion completely.. Sound Canvas is what Sound Canvas is, it has a fairly balanced EQ preset and modest effects preset - personally I l would probably be partial to a different EQ setup but that is beside the point. Once we have a few comments about how they sound I'll post the preset and discuss it 😀

Is there a reference recording for Sound Canvas? It would be good to use it when comparing.
If not, I will search for one online and get to a/b testing later in the week.

mihai wrote on 2022-06-30, 06:21:

Is there a reference recording for Sound Canvas? It would be good to use it when comparing.
If not, I will search for one online and get to a/b testing later in the week.

These are recordings I made from an SD-35; an SC-55 should be 99% identical. Cheers.

Doom E1M1: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/doom-e1 … nvas-sd-35-midi
Duke3D Grabbag: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/duke-nu … nvas-sd-35-midi

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-29, 14:02:

OK, so.. Just listen to these and tell me whether they would fool you as being recorded from a Sound Canvas or not.

Whether it sounds better or worse than the previous EQ settings is another discussion completely.. Sound Canvas is what Sound Canvas is, it has a fairly balanced EQ preset and modest effects preset - personally I l would probably be partial to a different EQ setup but that is beside the point. Once we have a few comments about how they sound I'll post the preset and discuss it 😀

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-30, 07:08:

These are recordings I made from an SD-35; an SC-55 should be 99% identical. Cheers. […]
Show full quote

mihai wrote on 2022-06-30, 06:21:

Is there a reference recording for Sound Canvas? It would be good to use it when comparing.
If not, I will search for one online and get to a/b testing later in the week.

These are recordings I made from an SD-35; an SC-55 should be 99% identical. Cheers.

Doom E1M1: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/doom-e1 … nvas-sd-35-midi
Duke3D Grabbag: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/duke-nu … nvas-sd-35-midi

Weird that Grabbag sounds very off compared to SC55 in both of these. X3E is wrong levels all around, kick is closer to SC88 (or maybe even same). SD-35 sounds like it's using Distortion guitar on both guitar channels instead of Overdrive and Distortion.

E1M1 sounds correct on the SD-35, off on the X3e (wrong drums)

heckyeah wrote on 2022-06-30, 07:50:

Weird that Grabbag sounds very off compared to SC55 in both of these. X3E is wrong levels all around, kick is closer to SC88 (or […]
Show full quote

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-29, 14:02:

OK, so.. Just listen to these and tell me whether they would fool you as being recorded from a Sound Canvas or not.

Whether it sounds better or worse than the previous EQ settings is another discussion completely.. Sound Canvas is what Sound Canvas is, it has a fairly balanced EQ preset and modest effects preset - personally I l would probably be partial to a different EQ setup but that is beside the point. Once we have a few comments about how they sound I'll post the preset and discuss it 😀

appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-30, 07:08:

These are recordings I made from an SD-35; an SC-55 should be 99% identical. Cheers. […]
Show full quote

mihai wrote on 2022-06-30, 06:21:

Is there a reference recording for Sound Canvas? It would be good to use it when comparing.
If not, I will search for one online and get to a/b testing later in the week.

These are recordings I made from an SD-35; an SC-55 should be 99% identical. Cheers.

Doom E1M1: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/doom-e1 … nvas-sd-35-midi
Duke3D Grabbag: https://soundcloud.com/user-470084971/duke-nu … nvas-sd-35-midi

Weird that Grabbag sounds very off compared to SC55 in both of these. X3E is wrong levels all around, kick is closer to SC88 (or maybe even same). SD-35 sounds like it's using Distortion guitar on both guitar channels instead of Overdrive and Distortion.

E1M1 sounds correct on the SD-35, off on the X3e (wrong drums)

The Dream GS sound bank AFAIK is not entirely the same as Sound Canvas, I believe it is a mix of 55/88 and possibly other samples. @dreamblaster will probably know more about this and chime in, as I do not know specifically which instruments are from which GS bank. You will note that in addition to drums, the Picked Bass instrument samples are also not entirely the same.

Alas, it is not possible to make the two exactly the same, just get the two to sound mostly the same 😀 I am focusing on getting the EQ curve similar, not trying to tone the instruments in any way which I can't. If you can comment on that, it would be super helpful. I think I still have a bit too much gain on bass and treble but with a bit toning down they will sound sufficiently similar. Cheers!

Oh yeah, sorry! I swear I read the thread before but I forgot the context.

I'd say they're close enough listening on my headphones, there's only so much you can do when the samples differ.

The current Dream GS bank is supposedly compiled from recordings of various SC units that were made over the years, but it's generally believed that the SC-55 was the source of most of the sounds and what the older GS banks had been made from, hence the jarring difference between some of the sounds, being from older samples of older hardware that were used to make the original Dream/Atmel GS banks. Roland had no hand in it's creation, nor did they "evaluate it" for quality control purposes, so it's a bit of a hodge-podge, though generally seen as an accurate approximation of an SC-55. The lawsuit between Roland and Dream/Atmel over the unlicensed and unapproved GS banks being used in Dream/Atmel products is what gave life to the CleanWave sounds, which Dream/ATMEL needed in order to sell their products without their faux-Roland GS bank. What Roland does license out since the late 90's, is the "Roland GS Soundset", which is the DLS file that you see used in the Microsoft System Software Synth and it's also used in many console games (JRPG's, mostly) that use MIDI for music. That itself is generally considered to be an official SC-55 copy. Then, there's the Roland soft-synth releases, which is another conversation all-together, albeit somewhat interesting to some of us.