Yes, I meant A2x0 since FM is available from Sound Blaster address space and from Adlib address space so some games can use "wrong" FM if they are configured for Sound Blaster (AWE64).

I've never used a wavetable header in my life, didn't realise most people cared about them at all

aitotat wrote on 2022-01-19, 13:45:

dionb wrote on 2022-01-19, 09:48:

Set the 'clone' card with good MIDI to A220 I5 D1 P330 U9 T4 and the AWE64 to A240 I7 (or 3) D3 (or 0) H5 (or 6) P300 E620 T6 and you're good to go for pretty much anything.

That is good if you are want to configure games based on what card you want to use. But there is another way to do things (and third as well. Those SBPRO.BAT and SB16.BAT can be used to switch cards from command line so all games can be configured same way).

If both cards are PnP that can be done too. I prefer both to be available as I like to mix and match. Why not WSS 16b effects together with AWE music, if only to test 😉

I would set the port, IRQ and DMA just the opposite: AWE64 should be set to port 220, IRQ 5 or 7 and DMA 1 and HDMA 5 (and P300 or Unisound specific P0). And unisound specific F0 to disable FM.
The clone card needs to be set to P330 but port, IRQ and DMA can be set to anything, even values not supported by many games, like those high IRQs that are more likely to be free. The clone card is only used for FM and MIDI. AWE64 handles the Sound Blaster DSP perfectly so no need for clone card for that (by the way, if someone finds a game with stereo samples but no SB16 support, then MIDIto can be used to emulate the missing stereo bit. Future versions will allow to map the clone card FM to AWE address space to remove any remaining need to switch to the clone card).

Disagree with only using the 'clone' for FM and MIDI, it also offers SBPro2 and WSS - and analog filters will differ, so even on 8b sound the cards will alway sound slightly differently. Similarly, it can be interesting to compare CQM with real OPL - both will play if set to same resource, you can just mute the unwanted one.

The logic to relegate the AWE to alternative (A240 etc) settings is simple: games advanced enough to offer 16b audio (and so a compelling reason to use the 16b DSP) will invariably support those settings. Older less flexible games work fine on the SBPro2-compatible cards.

Anything more than two SB cards is a massive headache when it comes to resources, but two work with no more sacrifice than second serial or parallel and pretty much everything will work with A240 I7 D3

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-01-19, 15:13:

I've never used a wavetable header in my life, didn't realise most people cared about them at all

With a DreamBlaster X2GS you can have a Roland SC-55 inside your computer for beautiful Sound Canvas General MIDI without the need for extra cables and wires outside of your computer.

There are also original Roland and Yamaha daughter boards but they are rarer now and much more expensive.

So much good information here, I have my work cut out for me. I guess MIDI by itself is out for me but FM-Synth is probably what I am looking for anyway to get the similar sounds I remember. I am leaning away from the SB AWE and more toward something with an authentic OPL chip on it. The search continues. Thank you all

Rham243 wrote on 2022-01-19, 21:11:

I am leaning away from the SB AWE and more toward something with an authentic OPL chip on it.

Keep in mind the SB AWE can route their FM through the EMU8000 chip to add reverb and chorus. It makes FM sound completely different and quite awesome in my opinion. I have cards with genuine OPL3 and don't think it's anything magical, Creative's CQM is not bad, just different.

The EMU8000 is not a good choice for GM unless you plan to run games in Windows. The TSR to route MIDI to the this chip only works in real-mode. I believe it works just as well from within Windows but then you lose out of some DOS compatibility.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-01-19, 21:57:

The EMU8000 is not a good choice for GM unless you plan to run games in Windows.

Surprisingly I found the DOS General MIDI support of the PCI-based Sound Blaster Live! to be better than the AWE.

dr_st wrote on 2022-01-19, 08:28:

This is why I eventually settled for an Audician 32 + Dreamblaster S1.

This is sort-of where I ended up too after years of trying different options. A Labway YMF719 based sound card, filter modded, with an X2GS for GM. It's brilliant.

Kahenraz wrote on 2022-01-19, 17:24:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-01-19, 15:13:

I've never used a wavetable header in my life, didn't realise most people cared about them at all

With a DreamBlaster X2GS you can have a Roland SC-55 inside your computer for beautiful Sound Canvas General MIDI without the need for extra cables and wires outside of your computer.

There are also original Roland and Yamaha daughter boards but they are rarer now and much more expensive.

all things being equal, I'd rather have the external box - it looks cool

It really depends on how much space you have for your setup. A self-contained mATX case with internal GM is one of my favorite retro machines to pull out because it fits on a shelf. This is the computer I have my Orpheus and X2GS installed in.

I love my Orpheus so much. It's my favorite piece of retro/not retro piece of tech in my collection. 😀

AWE64 gets another vote from me. I have one in my 486 DX4-100 and love it, almost want to buy another one for my other DX4. I've noticed they are way cheaper than the AWE32, and far less as fiddly than my SB16 Value and SB Vibra 16 cards are.

I would suggest anything SoundBlaster or compatible that's of a reasonable price. Back in the day I would have suggested starting out with the Pro 2.0 CT-1600 (I have one in my 286, love it), but it seems those have become a bit more expensive these days. Other good cards are those based on the ESS 688/1688/1868/1869 chips, and the Crystal CS-4237. I used to have an I/O Magic Magicsound 16 card (that was the first sound card I ever had, it was an 1869 chipset card) and it sounded great. I had it in an IBM PC-330 100DX4 machine and it fit the bill for everything quite well. I did see one on e-bay in original box not too long ago.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-01-20, 15:19:

[...]

all things being equal, I'd rather have the external box - it looks cool

Also, with a suitable MIDI switch/patchbay you can share external boxes between multiple (retro) systems. But er... that's deep, deep down the rabbit hole. Only go there if you have a room, a bucketload of time and lots of cash to spare.