esher wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:19:

It's not MT, as it's not based on LA through GM map. I's definitely early version of SC/GS, alpha version 😀

Yes, obviously. 😀 I was just thinking of the appearance and the presence of 1/4" jacks.

As for alpha version, as I said, it seems to have come out AFTER the SC-55, which casts doubt on that theory. The device that is closest to an "alpha" SC/GS would appear to be the Roland MV-30 (1990 release).

Spikey wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:30:

esher wrote on 2022-10-07, 18:19:

It's not MT, as it's not based on LA through GM map. I's definitely early version of SC/GS, alpha version 😀

Yes, obviously. 😀 I was just thinking of the appearance and the presence of 1/4" jacks.

As for alpha version, as I said, it seems to have come out AFTER the SC-55, which casts doubt on that theory. The device that is closest to an "alpha" SC/GS would appear to be the Roland MV-30 (1990 release).

It is not known when it was started in project. This may be release of dead end specification, may be because pcb and other production were already produced year ago, we don't know. FG-1000 is just an artifact in line

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tun […]
Show full quote

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

I think it's a bit confusing and unnecessary to consider a device with all of 9 GS tones "GS compatible", to be honest (and what GS data can it even play back?). Although I take your and esher's point about considering it from a 1990/91 perspective rather than a 2022 perspective.

Still, to me these early devices are GM devices with a few early GS tones, regardless of the daughterboards present or not present - unless of course as you say in the old QS thread, the wave data and patches are in there but undocumented (which to be fair is a very Roland thing to do).

Thanks very much for the info, and for the FG-10 info, which I'd remembered some of, but forgotten the name of the unit!

The RM-8000 is interesting and new to me. From the specs, it lists 8+drum LA channels (same as MT-32/related), and 6 PCM channels. Sounds kind of like a CM-500 or something? No patch list is given, so it seems unclear if it can be used as a MIDI synth, although one would *assume* so.

For fun, here's an eBay image of the remote for the unit:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GuwAAOSwhwpdJxUH/s-l1600.jpg

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tun […]
Show full quote

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

The audio links are all still valid; just remove the "archive.org" content prefixes. Or, here's an alternate version where the links can just be clicked in-line:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731id_ … pic,2457.0.html

As mentioned, the FG-10/1000 are GS devices, but are not entirely SC-55 compatible, as concerns the lack of most variation tones and drumkits. Instead, the FG devices use a specific, "commercial" variant of the GS daughterboard found in contemporaneous Roland products - the RLP-3079 - unique in its inclusion of voice/vocal samples that are used by the radio calisthenics MIDI sequences.

RLP-3037, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, JW-50

RLP-3079, C-TYPE GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: FG-10/1000

RLP-3170, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: CM-300/500, GPPC-F, GPPC-N

RLP-3305, GS Hybrid IC
Known usage: GPPC-FA, GPPC-NA

Thanks for your recordings, on the wonderful queststudios I miss so much. 😀 I don't know if I read that thread back then, but I probably had only just purchased my first MT-32 around that time, and was mostly a lurker. Recognizing your amazing find, for what it was, would've been unlikely.

Edit: And that buzzer is exactly what it should be. 😉 There's actually quite a lot of songs I recognize, probably mostly from the SC-8850's demosongs-included CD. You're right, they are all programmed with more skill than usual, at least for playback on Roland GS synths.

The SCC-1 is in my 486, MIDI files played back using DOSMid. These came out near but not quite clipping the -10dBV line level setting on the old E-MU 1616m.
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yf1laqnkxyqz0/scc1

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

Thanks for the info 😀
Made a small video of some of the sounds of the FG-1000 if someone like to compair the sounds to any of the Sound Canvas'es https://youtu.be/ENLRxRFmmzQ

oldinternet wrote on 2022-12-03, 18:38:

Cloudschatze wrote on 2022-10-07, 20:34:

Here's an almost fifteen-year-old thread regarding the Roland FG-10, including recordings of all of the demonstration sounds/tunes common to it and the FG-1000:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140910062731/ww … pic,2457.0.html

Thanks for the info 😀
Made a small video of some of the sounds of the FG-1000 if someone like to compair the sounds to any of the Sound Canvas'es https://youtu.be/ENLRxRFmmzQ

Nice, thanks for that! It really looks like a professional rack mount module, but none of the recorded sounds seem too different from the sound canvases I have (the SC-33, SC-8850, SC-8820, SC-55mkII, & CM-500), at least to my ears. That might not mean much, though. 😉 I probably can't blame youtube compression either, with my poor comparison history of hearing no unwanted noise on the supposedly noisy MT-32 (old).

Absolutely (and unsurprisingly) it sounds like a SC-55, although of course patch wise it's really a SC-7 with fewer drumkits, plus a few GS tones, plus one extra sound effect, "Buzzer". Thanks for sharing the video, oldinternet! Would love to hear one for all tones, and would love to hear it playing some MIDI files too.

As for hearing Jaffa, the only time you can really hear MT-32 noise is when a MT-32 recording is normalised without noise reduction - something you rarely hear in casual operation of the unit, perhaps with the exception of speakers turned up loud and MT-32 powered on outside of a game or while no music is playing.

Back to the SCCP itself, I apologise for not pursuing it more vigorously this year. It's been a pretty bad year for me with chronic illness, lack of energy, and my partner's health. The project isn't my current priority (that would be working with my synths and recording Sierra music), but I do plan on pursuing it further in the coming years. If someone wants to take over or assist that's fine, otherwise I'll pursuit it when I can.

Spikey wrote on 2022-12-14, 18:56:

As for hearing Jaffa, the only time you can really hear MT-32 noise is when a MT-32 recording is normalised without noise reduction - something you rarely hear in casual operation of the unit, perhaps with the exception of speakers turned up loud and MT-32 powered on outside of a game or while no music is playing.

Sorry for taking this off-topic, but I turned my UA-1610's monitor out level up all the way, while I have my speakers amplified so that 1/4 of the monitor out dial is used for comfortable normalized computer audio. This is way louder than what normalized audio processing would amplify, assuming music levels are being normalized too. I then turned on each of these various LA units, one at a time. Here they are, ordered from my perceived loudest to quietest while powered on and not playing music (non-captured or scientific):

CM-64 sounds like a 60 Hz hum to me (pretty quiet while switching off).
CM-500 (mode B) has a loud high pink noise hiss as if an LP record before music begins playing (pretty quiet while switching off).
MT-32 (Old) has a quiet high pitch airy note like a noisy power supply's whine (with a loud pop while switching off).
CM-32L has an almost imperceptible soft high airy sound (pretty quiet while switching off)

Spikey wrote on 2022-12-14, 18:56:

Back to the SCCP itself, I apologise for not pursuing it more vigorously this year. It's been a pretty bad year for me with chronic illness, lack of energy, and my partner's health. The project isn't my current priority (that would be working with my synths and recording Sierra music), but I do plan on pursuing it further in the coming years. If someone wants to take over or assist that's fine, otherwise I'll pursuit it when I can.

Back on topic - I'd have to reread your google doc to see if I'd have enough time to attempt your monumental project, so I can't promise that, but it is tempting to imagine I could help, before looking at it. On the other hand, waiting is not an issue for me. I'm sorry to hear about the health issues. Lack of energy isn't surprising with enduring psychological harm from COVID-19 separation, which in many cases has caused burnout. I'm sure I have my fair share of that too (although I am a solitary person), but it's affecting my computer repair workload more than the MIDI-related projects that I enjoy as an escape. And, yes, the music capturing phase, too, would have been a huge task for me (with so many devices) if it hadn't been paired with the passive task of listening to enjoyable music while on the intriguing quest to discover device variance.

Just found this thread, and would like to find some time to contribute some recordings. Is there a list of particular midis or should I use whichever I would like? I have SC-155, SC-55mkII, SC-88 ST Pro, SC-880, and an SC-8850 to throw in for comparisons. I also have a Serdaco Yucatan Fx which has the Dream branded Roland GS chip in it which might be interesting to have in the comparison. It seems have sound banks similar to the SC-55.