VOGONS


First post, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I recently got an old computer with a Pentium 133, 40MB or RAM and 20GB Hard drive.
It came with no soundcard and I thought I can just put in my Sound blaster live 5.1 I also got recently.
I'm running Windows 98 SE.
But when I install any drivers, it warns me that I do not have enough RAM,
and if i force the installation the PC plays sounds on startup but then hangs.
Is there anything I can do without buying more hardware?
Would installing Windows 95 instead of 98 SE help?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 1 of 25, by Boohyaka

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I wasn't aware of that specific limitation but you're basically trying to put a PCI sound card from 2000 into a very DOS/Win3.x/early Win95 build. I highly doubt Win95 would actually have a lower requirement, you're just making the time gap even bigger, with probably even less chance for proper support. And you will probably want to run DOS on such a machine, where the Live 5.1 being PCI will not sound great...to say the least.

In your shoes I'd look at buying a cheap ISA soundcard. Around 1995 you're right into SB16/AWE32 era but if you want to stay cheap, I'd go for something like an ES1868f based card, you should be able to find some around 20 bucks on ebay. They are good, compatible SB Pro sound cards with non-bugged MIDI. Your Live 5.1 would be happier in a late PII or a PIII build running Win98SE and native games.

Reply 2 of 25, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Boohyaka wrote on 2022-03-28, 19:46:

I wasn't aware of that specific limitation but you're basically trying to put a PCI sound card from 2000 into a very DOS/Win3.x/early Win95 build. I highly doubt Win95 would actually have a lower requirement, you're just making the time gap even bigger, with probably even less chance for proper support. And you will probably want to run DOS on such a machine, where the Live 5.1 being PCI will not sound great...to say the least.

In your shoes I'd look at buying a cheap ISA soundcard. Around 1995 you're right into SB16/AWE32 era but if you want to stay cheap, I'd go for something like an ES1868f based card, you should be able to find some around 20 bucks on ebay. They are good, compatible SB Pro sound cards with non-bugged MIDI. Your Live 5.1 would be happier in a late PII or a PIII build running Win98SE and native games.

Pretty much what he said, and:

- In my experience, if you look around a bit, you'll find quite some variety of decent ISA sound cards for as little as 10 €. At least here in Germany. With ESS chips or ALS100 or a few others. Actual OPL3 on it can't hurt. Sure, any SB16 of the time should do, as well, just bit more expensive.

- But, if you want to keep the Live, why not try that, it will do most things with the correct drivers. Look at "phil's computer lab" for advice on that.

- And, if it really gives you trouble, get more RAM for that machine - couldn't hurt for many other reasons.

Those PS2 (or PS/2 sometimes) SIMM modules with 72 pins and 16 MB are dirt cheap and any earlier Pentium Board will take four of them. That's "FPM" of "EDO" DRAM.
(Now that you have 40 on there, I'd assume it's two 16 MB and two 4 MB right now, so just get two more with 16 MB to replace the latter, they usually come in pairs and should be one)

If it's a later board, Intel VX or VIA VP chipset, it might take the 168 pin "DIMM" modules or "PC-66/100/133" SDRAM. Even easier to find, single 64 or two 32 MB ones. PC-66 would suffice, but "faster" ones don't hurt.

More than 64 MB probably won't do you much good.
There are some good reasons to keep Win98 SE.

I like jumpers.

Reply 3 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I wanted to keep 98 SE to play early Win 9x games, and especially to be able to connect to my home NAS.

Is there a chance the card would work under DOS without upgrading the ram?

I tried the driver Phil's computer labs recommend, it game me the same issues, but I can ask oh him or on his forums I guess.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 4 of 25, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

really, if upgrading the ram fixes the problem, do that

no DOS program ever will need more than 16 mb iirc and the sound drivers are only an issue with older games that need enough conventional memory themselves, that don't use a dos extender like doom or pretty much anything later.
There are numerous different sb live around - search for the sbxxxx number around here for details.

I like jumpers.

Reply 5 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have taken the PC apart and found that is actually has 48MB or ram and one stick was badly seated, it's 6x8MB.
And I was thinking I could get a cheap ISA soundcard, I found an "ISA Diamond 16bit DT-0196H" on an auction, but I have no clue what card is that and if it would work for sound in Windows and DOS.
https://imgur.com/a/oEHxpFp here is the picture they provided.
should I bid on it?

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 6 of 25, by Meatball

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Why don't you buy 64MB of RAM? Board limitation? It will be cheaper than any sound card. You won't get 16bit SB16 stereo emulation with most (any?) of the ESS cards, either.

2080Ti
TitanXp/980Ti/260/7950GT-GX2/6800U/6200/5950U/4200/GF3-2/TNT1-2
3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 7 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I don't know if the PC can take more than 48MB of ram, the PC is a HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, 4644B

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 8 of 25, by Meatball

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
koleq wrote on 2022-04-02, 13:41:

I don't know if the PC can take more than 48MB of ram, the PC is a HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, 4644B

I think this will be a better resource than what I previously posted:

https://www.ultimateretro.net/en/motherboards/2856. Does the inside of your machine look like this?

Only get 64MB. If you add 128MB, you'll probably slow the machine down due to caching limitations of the chipset.

2080Ti
TitanXp/980Ti/260/7950GT-GX2/6800U/6200/5950U/4200/GF3-2/TNT1-2
3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 9 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I could by 2x 16MB EDO RAM for like 400,- czk I just noticed that the ram is to be bid on too... but ends tomorrow.
or I could bid on that Diamond card which ends in 2 day and right now goes for 5,- czk (I dunno I would be willing to go like to 200,- czk, because I already paid 270,- czk for that SB Live 5.1)
I just want to know if the Diamond 16bit DT-0196H is any good, or atleast good enough.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 10 of 25, by Meatball

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
koleq wrote on 2022-04-02, 14:03:

I could by 2x 16MB EDO RAM for like 400,- czk I just noticed that the ram is to be bid on too... but ends tomorrow.
or I could bid on that Diamond card which ends in 2 day and right now goes for 5,- czk (I dunno I would be willing to go like to 200,- czk, because I already paid 270,- czk for that SB Live 5.1)
I just want to know if the Diamond 16bit DT-0196H is any good, or atleast good enough.

Looks like it's a good one:

Found a lot of obscure ISA cards, help please

2080Ti
TitanXp/980Ti/260/7950GT-GX2/6800U/6200/5950U/4200/GF3-2/TNT1-2
3dfx 58-55-49-45-35-3-2K/100/2/Fusion/Rush/1/X-24/200SBi/100DB
ATI 75-7200/Rage MAXX-Fury-Ultra-GL-Pro-XL-LT
G400MAX-200/M220/Trio3D/VirgeGX2/DX
Verite V2100/PCX2-1
GLoria Synergy/I/II

Reply 11 of 25, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
koleq wrote on 2022-04-02, 14:03:

I could by 2x 16MB EDO RAM for like 400,- czk I just noticed that the ram is to be bid on too... but ends tomorrow.
or I could bid on that Diamond card which ends in 2 day and right now goes for 5,- czk (I dunno I would be willing to go like to 200,- czk, because I already paid 270,- czk for that SB Live 5.1)
I just want to know if the Diamond 16bit DT-0196H is any good, or atleast good enough.

400, that's a lot of koruna for 32 MB of RAM.
Pretty sure with nine out of ten users on here, you could take 2 x 16 MB from their stash without them noticing.
Because they'll all have something like this in some box:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/12-Stueck-pcs-PS2-EDO … r-/154814881657

So, don't know about shipping to you place, but this side of the Erzgebirge, I'd find at least "buy it now" for about 200 czk for two pieces:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/334368346032

And if you were to wait for an auction to end, well, this seems like a reasonable price:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/4-x-Arbeitsspeicher-1 … n-/175215833498

Really, simple PS2 RAM up to 16 MB a piece is everywhere. So many people tossed out their obsolete or dead motherboard but kept the RAM.

That ISA sound card may be OK, and for the price you stated, couldn't hurt. But you're heading for a bit of a rabbit hole there.
Certainly not about the RAM for the Live and DOS.

I like jumpers.

Reply 12 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Sadly, I was outbid on the ISA Diamond,
there is a new card now also an auction the card is Avance Logic ALS100 REV 2.0
And from what I read here on vogons it's at-least okay enough.
I will try to bid on it, looks like my hunt for ram or soundcard will be a long one.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 13 of 25, by koleq

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I also found out that my machine has 48 MB of ram not 40MB and it's 6x8MB
so I do need either 2x16 MB or 1x32 MB EDO/FPM 72 pin RAM.

###HP Vectra VL 5/133 Series 4, D4644B###
CPU: Pentium 1 133Mhz
RAM: 96 MB EDO RAM (4x8MB, 2x32MB)
GPU: ELSA Victory 3DX (S3 Virge/DX 4MB)
Sound: Avance Logic ALS100 Plus+ REV 2.0
HDD: Seagate 20 GB (need to boot OnTrack)
OS: Windows 98 SE

Reply 14 of 25, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
koleq wrote on 2022-04-04, 05:25:

I also found out that my machine has 48 MB of ram not 40MB and it's 6x8MB
so I do need either 2x16 MB or 1x32 MB EDO/FPM 72 pin RAM.

It's a Pentium. You'll need pairs with PS2. 😉

I like jumpers.

Reply 15 of 25, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The DOS support in the Live 5.1 are all emulation TSRs and will choke that P133 hard (it's intended for the 6th generation of computers minimum - Pentium II, K6-2, etc.). RAM won't save you there. It's also not very good emulation as it'll crash with some games, like almost everything using Build for example.

The RAM requirement's more for loading soundfonts under Windows 9X. Earlier ISA sound cards (SB AWE32/64) had dedicated RAM on the card for that (and are 400% more P133 appropriate)

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 16 of 25, by BinaryDemon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
leileilol wrote on 2022-04-04, 12:44:

The DOS support in the Live 5.1 are all emulation TSRs and will choke that P133 hard (it's intended for the 6th generation of computers minimum - Pentium II, K6-2, etc.).

Really? For DOS I always assumed the TSRs did little more than direct I/O and the emulation was handled by chips on the SBLive. Sorta makes me want to add a SBLive to a 486 and test it.

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 17 of 25, by AirIntake

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
leileilol wrote on 2022-04-04, 12:44:

It's also not very good emulation as it'll crash with some games, like almost everything using Build for example.

It doesn't crash with the most famous Build game, Duke Nukem 3D, thankfully.

Casio BE-300 Advancement Society alumni

Reply 18 of 25, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
BinaryDemon wrote on 2022-04-04, 12:57:

Really?

That 264KB sbecore.bin file it loads has to mean something 😀

AirIntake wrote on 2022-04-04, 15:12:

It doesn't crash with the most famous Build game, Duke Nukem 3D, thankfully.

Jump in the sewers and it will.

apsosig.png
long live PCem

Reply 19 of 25, by AirIntake

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
leileilol wrote on 2022-04-04, 22:39:
AirIntake wrote on 2022-04-04, 15:12:

It doesn't crash with the most famous Build game, Duke Nukem 3D, thankfully.

Jump in the sewers and it will.

I just tested the sewer portions of Red Light District, Toxic Dump, and L.A. Rumble and didn't experience any crashes. I'm using Duke 3D version 1.3D, SBEINIT version 4.05 with an SB0100 under DOS 7 from Windows 98SE. Duke 3D's sound is configured for Sound Blaster sound effects and General MIDI music.

Casio BE-300 Advancement Society alumni