You could go for UNISOUND instead, which is what I use on my AWE64, nothing else. Have yet to find a game that doesn't work without all the other Creative drivers.

bregolin wrote on 2022-10-21, 18:38:

You could go for UNISOUND instead, which is what I use on my AWE64, nothing else. Have yet to find a game that doesn't work without all the other Creative drivers.

What is the memory hit with UNISOUND?

It's not a TSR so zero 😁 - UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Driver for DOS v0.80a

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-21, 19:23:

bregolin wrote on 2022-10-21, 18:38:

You could go for UNISOUND instead, which is what I use on my AWE64, nothing else. Have yet to find a game that doesn't work without all the other Creative drivers.

What is the memory hit with UNISOUND?

bregolin wrote on 2022-10-22, 21:48:

It's not a TSR so zero 😁 - UNISOUND - Universal ISA PnP Sound Card Driver for DOS v0.80a

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-21, 19:23:

bregolin wrote on 2022-10-21, 18:38:

You could go for UNISOUND instead, which is what I use on my AWE64, nothing else. Have yet to find a game that doesn't work without all the other Creative drivers.

What is the memory hit with UNISOUND?

Nice. I used unisound in my Win98 box, but not my MS-DOS box. I am now getting a "csp not detected" error which I am trying to figure out, but I will try unisound in my "no awe32 low level driver" config.

Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-21, 17:42:

I have created a mutli-config.sys with various options such as "full AWE32" and "basic AWE32" which determine whether or not ctsb16.sys, ctmmsys.sys, and csp.sys are loaded

All you really need is ctcm and aweutil (probably aweutil /s if you don't need General MIDI compatibility). With aweutil /s you get zero memory footprint.
Haven't tried unisound yet.

I don't know of *any* game or app that would require those .sys files (besides a number of included Creative demo apps).

Azarien wrote on 2022-10-23, 06:49:

All you really need is ctcm and aweutil (probably aweutil /s if you don't need General MIDI compatibility). With aweutil /s you […]
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Scythifuge wrote on 2022-10-21, 17:42:

I have created a mutli-config.sys with various options such as "full AWE32" and "basic AWE32" which determine whether or not ctsb16.sys, ctmmsys.sys, and csp.sys are loaded

All you really need is ctcm and aweutil (probably aweutil /s if you don't need General MIDI compatibility). With aweutil /s you get zero memory footprint.
Haven't tried unisound yet.

I don't know of *any* game or app that would require those .sys files (besides a number of included Creative demo apps).

I think that ctcm is for later AWE32 cards. My CT2760 drivers, even from the iso I found which installs drivers for a variety of Sound Blaster cards from pre-AWE32 to AWE64, doesn't install ctcm for that card. It sets upe aweutil, diagnose, and either sb16set or mixerset (and csp.sys and the other two low-level drivers.) I think that my 3990 in my Win98 box uses it with the normal drivers. If the three low-level sys files are strictly for demo apps and not for any games or the Creative apps for Windows 3.x, I will definitely avoid them across all configs. I don't necessarily use Creative apps other than the mixer and the WAV app for testing purposes, though I like to know that everything is working properly if I ever decide to use them. My goal is to actually use this 486 for real computing other than just games, such as using old versions of Word or Wordperfect for writing and looking into how musicians may have used a 486 and Windows 3.x for music production, back in the day (and maybe look into how they included an MT-32 or an SC-55.).

My mother was in my office the other day and told my girlfriend how weird it was to see me sitting at the same model of computers desk that we had when I was a teen; using a beige horizontal desktop PC with all of the old school accessories and game/application boxes, like it was going back in time. Usually, these days, I sit in rocking chair with a small glass desk in front of a big screen TV when using my modern PC. I find it amazing that I can easily switch from a modern PC with a large display to an oldschool machine with a small display. I am hoping to finish tweaking my startup files so that I can get back to installing games and apps and then actually use the machine.

you do need CSP.SYS if you want to use the CSP in Win 3.1

yeah ctcm/diagnose wont do squat for the CSP/ASP chip, you need the driver loaded...

but since like 1 game uses it, its waste of ram. but CT2760 is not PNP so unisound wont work for you (I dont think).

maxtherabbit wrote on 2022-10-23, 17:24:

you do need CSP.SYS if you want to use the CSP in Win 3.1

What uses the CSP chip? I am thinking that somehow, my CSP died.

BloodyCactus wrote on 2022-10-23, 23:51:

yeah ctcm/diagnose wont do squat for the CSP/ASP chip, you need the driver loaded...

but since like 1 game uses it, its waste of ram. but CT2760 is not PNP so unisound wont work for you (I dont think).

Do you know which game?

Terra Nova or TFX I think.