VOGONS


Is a Voodoo 2 worth the cost

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Reply 100 of 118, by matze79

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Picked up a V2 8Mb recently for 40€

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 101 of 118, by bloodem

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You can upgrade it to 12 MB 😁

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Reply 102 of 118, by imi

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Shreddoc wrote on 2020-09-16, 11:01:

I've paid around $30 total for my Voodoo 1 + 2. One a lucky recent score, and the other had for a long time when it cost nothing. So I will never need to spend the current open market price of $200.

in what world does a voodoo 2 cost $200?
that's what you can get a full SLI setup for usually.

voodoo 2s can be generally had for $50-100 on ebay debending on how fast you want it... less if you're lucky or go looking around for scrap lots.

Reply 103 of 118, by Tetrium

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imi wrote on 2020-09-16, 12:04:
Shreddoc wrote on 2020-09-16, 11:01:

I've paid around $30 total for my Voodoo 1 + 2. One a lucky recent score, and the other had for a long time when it cost nothing. So I will never need to spend the current open market price of $200.

in what world does a voodoo 2 cost $200?

Maybe in a year or 2 😜

Personally I find the current prices rather absurd for a card that might actually not even be in working condition when you finally get it.
I don't have the budget for prices as they are now, so I would probably stick to more modern parts that are cheaper and easier to find or skip retro computing altogether.

Is it worth the cost? I reckon this largely depends on how much a person values having one is and how much value his wallet has.
For me personally, part of the fun was to recycle parts that were considered useless, obsolete, unwanted and old into something that is of some kind of actual use. Heck, I even managed to impress my mother with one of my retro rigs when I told her the PC that was from boot to the desktop in mere seconds (shutdown was even faster) was a puny Pentium 3 with a 20GB HDD 🤣! That is fun! Or at least it is to me.

But now, I see collectors who are gathering these parts merely because they want to look 'cool' with it, as some kind of nostalgically infused prestige project of theirs with little (if any) motivation for the actual retro computing, instead opting to fill their glass display cases for their rich friends to ogle at at how rare and hard-to-find these cards have become.

Kinda a shame, but what I do like is that what used to be junk, is now much more appreciated now with people actually caring for their parts, even repairing broken parts instead of casually tossing it into the bin.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 104 of 118, by Doornkaat

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Sorry in advance for this large and rather OT post.

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-09-16, 07:26:

old paintings are some of the most expensive things in the world. do you think collectors cry about the price? "why does someone try to sell this painting for a million dollars?? its so old!!" no, this is a factor in the collection side of things. the value. the age sometimes determines the value too.

I know this is mostly besides the point but in fine art age itself is not really a factor in determination of value.
There is contemporary art being sold for seven figure sums a piece as well as 19th century paintings selling in the low three figure range.
If I did a painting it would probably never gain any value no matter its age because it isn't a significant contribution to any current style or trend and there will never be any hype over my person. Significance toward their period is a huge factor in determination of value of a specific piece of art. There will never be any interest in what I did artistically.
In many cases a piece of art gains monetary value a while after its associated period ended because at this point its significance and relevance towards that period can really be evaluated. It is also after the artist died that their work is complete and nothing new can ever be made by this particular creative genius. You can now determine where a certain piece fits and how it relates to their work as a whole i.e. "which ones are the good ones".
Another factor that is only indirectly connected to age is originality to a period. Wolfgang Beltracchi is a known art forger and he is an absolute master at imitating an artist's style. His craft is astounding but his forgeries are mostly inspired by the works of a period he never experienced himself. The problem with his works isn't their young age. The problem is they can never be an actual expression of an artist that actually experienced the zeitgeist of a period of art. Of course his works could also never contribute to the process of that period, they couldn't engage in dialogue with other artists. They will always be a retroactive interpretation of that period. They're the result of a second-hand experience.

I think a better analogy to price development of retro hardware would be found within the realm of design/applied arts. A piece of computer hardware is an object of utility while fine art does not serve a practical purpose and while it is possible to make new 3dfx cards based on old designs it is not possible to recreate a piece of art. You can make a copy but it won't have the same creative process.
A collectible item from an original production run will likely gain higher value than a later (re)production. The original Apple I will command a six figure sum while a reproduction can be had for three figures. The device is functionally identical but its value is determined by who made it when. Similarly even though your sitting experience will probably be the same at auction a Clubsessel B 3 made in the Möbelwerkstatt am Bauhaus will sell for significantly more than a new one made by Knoll. Direct connection to a certain time, place or person can create value.
I think age is mostly relevant to value in things that have been produced (either identical in both form and function or only in function) over a long period of time. In this case age can be used to differentiate between multiple otherwise (for the most part) identical objects: Age is a property that can not be artificially created, creating a chance of adding prestige to an otherwise unspectacular object. On the other hand age can also decrease value if a deterioration that will negatively affect the item's characteristics can be assumed.
Very old age also raises interest (therefore raising value if the supply is limited) in otherwise ordinary every day objects but I would argue this is mainly due to them serving as witnesses of the past.

Reply 105 of 118, by Doornkaat

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Back on topic:
Collectors will likely want to have an original piece of hardware that's actually manufactured within the design's original supported time of life. If you're into collecting 90's rendering hardware there's probably no way around a Voodoo2. If you should get one only depends on wether you can afford it.
Nostalgics/people who want the most authentic "retro" computing experience will probably want original hardware but a faithful reproduction will be fine for their purposes. Wether those need a Voodoo2 depends on what kind of experience they want to recreate. 1998 highend? Voodoo2 SLI is inevitable. The authentic late 90s mainstream computing experience? TNT2 M64 all the way, baby! 😁
Tinkerers will probably need physical hardware but be fine with reproductions and often even prefer an optimised/revised or new design with options that increase usability. I don't think the Ebay price of an original Voodoo2 card is worth it to most in that category.
People who mainly want to experience games the way the game designers envisioned them will be fine with whatever is at hand (be it old or new hardware or even software emulation) that will present the game in the most enjoyable way. Especially those don't need a Voodoo2 card.

Reply 107 of 118, by Shreddoc

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imi wrote on 2020-09-16, 12:04:
Shreddoc wrote on 2020-09-16, 11:01:

I've paid around $30 total for my Voodoo 1 + 2. One a lucky recent score, and the other had for a long time when it cost nothing. So I will never need to spend the current open market price of $200.

in what world does a voodoo 2 cost $200?

Yeah sorry, I forgot to translate from my local currency (NZD).

But yeah in smaller countries with limited supply it can actually be 200 US right now for a V2. Either local where there is very low supply, or international ebay rates + the same again in shipping costs.

I could sell mine today for $150 US easily (probably more), in my country. It would be bought within one day.

Reply 110 of 118, by darry

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cde wrote on 2020-09-18, 10:57:

Thanks everyone for your replies and insights. I have decided to buy one at the reasonable price of 80E, to be used as a complement to my current Voodoo 3 2000 PCI or FX 5900 XT.

Personally, I am content with a Voodoo 3 and FX 5900 in the same machine . If I had to add anything to that combo, it would likely be a Voodoo 1 for added compatibility with the oldest Glide titles .

EDIT : Not sure what a Voodoo 2 does that a Voodoo 3 can't do, personally . Then again, I don't do much Glide stuff these days so take my opinion with a grain of salt .

Reply 112 of 118, by kolderman

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darry wrote on 2020-09-18, 17:52:
cde wrote on 2020-09-18, 10:57:

Thanks everyone for your replies and insights. I have decided to buy one at the reasonable price of 80E, to be used as a complement to my current Voodoo 3 2000 PCI or FX 5900 XT.

Personally, I am content with a Voodoo 3 and FX 5900 in the same machine . If I had to add anything to that combo, it would likely be a Voodoo 1 for added compatibility with the oldest Glide titles .

EDIT : Not sure what a Voodoo 2 does that a Voodoo 3 can't do, personally . Then again, I don't do much Glide stuff these days so take my opinion with a grain of salt .

I think the v2 to v3 is where the Glide compatibility gap lies. It's much smaller between v1 and v2.

Reply 113 of 118, by bloodem

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darry wrote on 2020-09-18, 17:52:

Personally, I am content with a Voodoo 3 and FX 5900 in the same machine . If I had to add anything to that combo, it would likely be a Voodoo 1 for added compatibility with the oldest Glide titles .
EDIT : Not sure what a Voodoo 2 does that a Voodoo 3 can't do, personally . Then again, I don't do much Glide stuff these days so take my opinion with a grain of salt .

I actually prefer pairing a Voodoo 2 with a powerful GeForce card (not as powerful as the FX5900, though - I usually go with GeForce 2 GTS, GeForce 3 Ti 200 or GeForce 4 Ti 4200 at most).
There are a few pros:
- The switch between the two cards is seamless thanks to the "3D-only" nature of the Voodoo 2 cards (with a Voodoo 3 the switch is cumbersome)
- The Voodoo 2 is much more compatible with old statically linked Glide games that were designed to work with the first Voodoo card (as in, there's usually a workaround available to make the game run on a Voodoo 2, but not on Voodoo 3)
- The Voodoo 2 is basically the "best of both worlds": it's much faster than the Voodoo 1 (and this speed is usually enough to play any game out there that only supports Glide or has very poor support for other APIs), while also being very compatible (albeit, still not as compatible as a Voodoo 1). Image quality with the Voodoo 2 is also much better when compared to that of the Voodoo 1
- As an added bonus, running two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI next to a powerful GeForce 4 Ti 4200 card is just... cool 😀

Cons:
- Image quality on the Voodoo 2 (combined with the whole passthrough situation) can be very hit or miss when compared to subsequent Voodoo cards. First of all, the Voodoo 2 cards themselves usually have lower VGA signal quality (not all of them, though). And then there's also the cable's quality, which can add further signal noise. For example, I have two Creative 3D Blaster Voodoo 2 boards which have pretty bad VGA signal (even though, you'd assume that Creative - being so popular at the time - would be one of the best cards). However, I'm getting much better quality with an "unknown" brand such as Joytech Voodoo 2 + a high quality passthrough cable (still not quite comparable to a Voodoo 3, though).

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Reply 114 of 118, by Doornkaat

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cde wrote on 2020-09-19, 09:01:

I agree, unfortunately the Voodoo 1 I bought is currently lost in the mail (which is sad as it was a pretty good deal at 40E). So I decided to buy this Voodoo 2 as a temporary replacement.

Where do you live? At least in Germany the naked card can be regularly had for 5€-10€. I bought two this year for a friend, one of them the 6MB Miro HiScore 3D (admittedly, this one was actually a bit lucky at 7.50€).
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but 40€ for an (assumingly) regular V1 sounds like a new level of 3dfx craziness to me.🤐

Reply 115 of 118, by RichB93

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Doornkaat wrote on 2020-09-19, 13:59:
cde wrote on 2020-09-19, 09:01:

I agree, unfortunately the Voodoo 1 I bought is currently lost in the mail (which is sad as it was a pretty good deal at 40E). So I decided to buy this Voodoo 2 as a temporary replacement.

Where do you live? At least in Germany the naked card can be regularly had for 5€-10€. I bought two this year for a friend, one of them the 6MB Miro HiScore 3D (admittedly, this one was actually a bit lucky at 7.50€).
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but 40€ for an (assumingly) regular V1 sounds like a new level of 3dfx craziness to me.🤐

These prices are the norm on eBay.

Reply 116 of 118, by imi

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Doornkaat wrote on 2020-09-19, 13:59:
cde wrote on 2020-09-19, 09:01:

I agree, unfortunately the Voodoo 1 I bought is currently lost in the mail (which is sad as it was a pretty good deal at 40E). So I decided to buy this Voodoo 2 as a temporary replacement.

Where do you live? At least in Germany the naked card can be regularly had for 5€-10€. I bought two this year for a friend, one of them the 6MB Miro HiScore 3D (admittedly, this one was actually a bit lucky at 7.50€).
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but 40€ for an (assumingly) regular V1 sounds like a new level of 3dfx craziness to me.🤐

those are some nice friends to have ^^

V1 often go for €40 on ebay... but if you're a bit patient you can also get them for €20... not a 6MB Miro HiScore 3D though ^^

Reply 117 of 118, by Doornkaat

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RichB93 wrote on 2020-09-19, 19:55:
Doornkaat wrote on 2020-09-19, 13:59:
cde wrote on 2020-09-19, 09:01:

I agree, unfortunately the Voodoo 1 I bought is currently lost in the mail (which is sad as it was a pretty good deal at 40E). So I decided to buy this Voodoo 2 as a temporary replacement.

Where do you live? At least in Germany the naked card can be regularly had for 5€-10€. I bought two this year for a friend, one of them the 6MB Miro HiScore 3D (admittedly, this one was actually a bit lucky at 7.50€).
I'm not trying to be a dick or anything but 40€ for an (assumingly) regular V1 sounds like a new level of 3dfx craziness to me.🤐

These prices are the norm on eBay.

Really? Wow, I haven't checked V1's for some time but it can't be more than two years ago they went for roughly 20€.
I mostly use classifieds and you absolutely find them cheaper there.
I hope your card finds its way to you after all.🙂

Reply 118 of 118, by Doornkaat

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imi wrote on 2020-09-19, 20:05:

those are some nice friends to have ^^

V1 often go for €40 on ebay... but if you're a bit patient you can also get them for €20... not a 6MB Miro HiScore 3D though ^^

It's not completely unselfish. I enjoy finding those deals but I can't justify buying more for myself. 😉 Plus it's another card saved from the scalpers. 😁