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Reply 840 of 996, by leileilol

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Yep, the rocket launcher and players are red. 😁 shows that the driver did attempt to load the higher textures but is picking the other mipmap levels for rendering.

The blue fire hole floor is interesting too as that's a RGBA4444, loaded before the weapons and still gets pushed to the back

My only other ideas are to see if r_finish and r_primitives 1/2/3 do anything.

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Reply 841 of 996, by Hanamichi

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Chadti99 wrote on 2022-01-20, 12:58:

So should we start a new Neon 250 thread or keep the fun rolling here? Just calling out there are several new owners of this card, probly with questions like me. Has anyone been able to use “high texture detail” in Quake 3 without some textures obviously not loading correctly? Check the gun in the pic.

Let me know the Q3 settings that gives you this, I can test on an original Neon this weekend.

The reviews don't mention any issues like that and I think they went up to 1600x1200 on 'high'

I find the drivers hard to swap, needed to clean the registry each time or a fresh install which was pita.

Reply 842 of 996, by Chadti99

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The problem appears for me when I slide the texture detail setting all the way the right. If I pulled it back one notch, no problem.

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Reply 843 of 996, by leileilol

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32-bit textures and picmip 0? You're definitely pushing a 32mb card. It doesn't look like it's using 32-bit anyway (see the bandedness of that texture quality slider graphic, it's still 16-bit there)

When loaded, type /imagelist in the console to get an (approximate) amount of video memory usage for textures.

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Reply 845 of 996, by Chadti99

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leileilol wrote on 2022-01-21, 15:33:

32-bit textures and picmip 0? You're definitely pushing a 32mb card. It doesn't look like it's using 32-bit anyway (see the bandedness of that texture quality slider graphic, it's still 16-bit there)

When loaded, type /imagelist in the console to get an (approximate) amount of video memory usage for textures.

Even on “16-bit” same issue.

Running the command I get info back about 6734528 total texels and 324 total images.

Reply 848 of 996, by Hanamichi

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So I've got a fresh install of W98SE OEM.
Plonked on Q3 Gold from GOG.

Installed the earliest drivers and later ones from vogon drivers. Tried the early opengl32.pvr (rename to .dll and plonk in the dir) as well as the MiniGL config program and set to QIII folder.

I don't see any corruption like your photos regardless of settings..
but I do get a hardlock after a few seconds... no matter what..

Runs okay in Unreal so it's not the card.

CPU is a PIII Xeon running at 500MHz

I'll find an old Q3 executable and try again. Are you using the original CD install?

For your issue did you try AGP apeture settings?

Reply 849 of 996, by Hanamichi

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Chadti99 wrote on 2022-01-21, 12:49:

The problem appears for me when I slide the texture detail setting all the way the right. If I pulled it back one notch, no problem.

Alright progress..

It's sensitive to AGP aperture size..

On my 440GX platform

128mb aperture -> fast hard lock
64mb aperture -> fast hard lock
32mb aperture -> plays for 15 secs then hard lock but no missing textures
16mb aperture -> plays without locking up but missing textures spotted with the highest details

There is an option in the driver "Force all Texture to AGP Memory" for MiniGL this made things worse predictably.

This was with 3.1.1.36 driver and original opengl.pvr from the CD folder (not techlands)

There is a late patched neon250 minigl and techlands minigl I have not tried yet.

Apart from that issue it plays Q3 impressively well for 1024x768.. bit of early Kyro magic.

Reply 851 of 996, by Hanamichi

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Q3 Gold from GOG
Xeon 550Mhz @ 666MHz 😁
128mb ram <- I think my issues are memory related actually, tried a different stick or two and Q3 crashed instantly no matter what setting. Need to find at least 256mb that works and run memtest
440GX @ 120MHz FSB

GL Driver: Default
GL Ext: on
Video Mode: 800x600
Color Depth: 32
Fullscreen: on
Lighting: Lightmap
Geometric: High
Texture Detail: 1 down from max
Texture Quality: 32 bit
Texture Filter: Bilinear

timedemo 1
demo four

56.6 fps

Last edited by Hanamichi on 2022-01-23, 22:44. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 852 of 996, by Hanamichi

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Ah yes sorry you have a PCI version...hmmm

Chadti99 wrote on 2022-01-23, 21:06:

Are you referring to AGP aperture setting in the bios setup?

Yes

Chadti99 wrote on 2022-01-23, 21:06:

I have the PCI variant of the Neon 250, would it have any effect?

I don't think so but no harm in trying
AGP Textures was a selling point if implemented correctly
My knowledge on that isn't great but I think that would be why, once you hit 32mb a PCI card chokes and starts swapping.
A good AGP implementation can use a portion of system memory to buffer although it's of an order slower.

Chadti99 wrote on 2022-01-23, 21:06:

Can you share any Quake 3 timedemo scores ?

See my other posts and here for reference: https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/video … iew,131-10.html

Last edited by Hanamichi on 2022-01-23, 22:43. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 853 of 996, by Hanamichi

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Also got max textures settings working now with random memory stick swaps/ bios tweaks .

Basically if I set less then <32MB AGP Apeture size I see your artefacts/lack of textures.
Once at 32MB it runs fine, I guess it's just creeping up to over the 48MB+ memory used for max detail textures.
Anyway it's just one game and high setting.

GL Driver: Default
GL Ext: on
Video Mode: 1024x768
Color Depth: 32
Fullscreen: on
Lighting: Lightmap
Geometric: High
Texture Detail: max
Texture Quality: 32 bit
Texture Filter: Bilinear

timedemo 1
demo four

31.4 fps

Reply 855 of 996, by leileilol

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There is no PowerVR version of Q3. What's going on in this thread is stock Q3 being played with separately available supplemental MiniGL drivers for the Neon250. There's no source code publicly available for any of the established PowerVR MiniGL drivers (extreme, neon250, techland)

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Reply 856 of 996, by libv

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leileilol wrote on 2022-01-26, 19:48:

There is no PowerVR version of Q3. What's going on in this thread is stock Q3 being played with separately available supplemental MiniGL drivers for the Neon250. There's no source code publicly available for any of the established PowerVR MiniGL drivers (extreme, neon250, techland)

Hrm. I see. And while I do see an sgl.dll in the neon-250 drivers and it supposedly is compatible with that known interface, is there a header for SGL2 available that you know of?

Reply 858 of 996, by leileilol

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I'd advise pumping up the host video card's gamma instead (if color adjustment control is available). Some swear by some old 'idgamma' tool but that's way too lossy in my opinion.

for reference, 3dfx cards through 3dfx's MiniGL use gamma 1.7

If this were a Kyro card, you could set the OpenGL hardware gamma correction at the per-app driver level 😀

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Reply 859 of 996, by RaVeN-05

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Anyone who have Neon 250 or compatible can you please do a video capture of PowerSGL2 exclusive demos?

PowerVR Neon250 (tech demos) (SGL2 only)

https://hexenworld.org/forum/index.php (Heretic's & HeXen's forum)
https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv