VOGONS


Reply 20 of 32, by Errius

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dataino.it wrote on 2021-09-06, 20:39:

In australia you have to ask Ben ,,, before he destroys every computer on Australian soil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrXAghbkcEU&t=129s

That's a NEC PowerMate 1 Plus (APC-H2010F). How much are working 286s selling for nowadays?

Is this too much voodoo?

Reply 21 of 32, by dragonerosso

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-06, 21:12:
dragonerosso wrote on 2021-09-06, 21:06:

thanks man 😀 about any radeon gpu model??

They're quite decent but they lack the 8-bit palettized texture support, have issues with fog table and have poor OpenGL driver support except the games where they were finetuned.

understood, very useful infos:) probably a geforce 2 ti card is more than adequate to 1999 than the others 🤣

Reply 22 of 32, by 386SX

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I prefers time correct cards balanced to the CPU, so why not a good old Savage 4 maybe the fastest version? I know there're many other faster ones but the Pentium II really is old for having a sense with some FX or whatever other agp cards none would have nearly ever used into those systems if still functional imho.. 😉
The Geforce 256 would sounds good if it'd not be for its power bus requirements and the fan lifetime usually at least the ones I found. So maybe the original Geforce 2 MX with early light drivers might be a good choice imho.

Reply 23 of 32, by zyga64

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-06, 20:14:

I would go for the GeForce 256 since it allows you to use early nVidia drivers.
[...]

Geforce 256 was also known to be power-hungry. So, if you have weak motherboard take it into consideration.
Geforce 2MX is on the same performance level with definitely lower energy consumption.

I remember times where Riva TNT2 was brand new. Those were the times where tweaked drivers were most popular (Fachman's, JGCs etc.)
For those GPUs it was popular to use drivers as old as 3.68 or 6.18 to gain some performance.
We are used to think that newer drivers are better suited for newer GPUs. It's actually true.
...but very often new driver release brings compatibility fixes ans some speedups also for older graphics cards.
In my opinion best way is to choose driver version suited for your graphics card by trial and error method.

Good start is to look on Phil's driver page and see what is supported . https://www.philscomputerlab.com/nvidia-9x-gr … cs-drivers.html

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 24 of 32, by Gmlb256

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zyga64 wrote on 2021-09-07, 09:19:
We are used to think that newer drivers are better suited for newer GPUs. It's actually true. ...but very often new driver rel […]
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We are used to think that newer drivers are better suited for newer GPUs. It's actually true.
...but very often new driver release brings compatibility fixes ans some speedups also for older graphics cards.
In my opinion best way is to choose driver version suited for your graphics card by trial and error method.

Good start is to look on Phil's driver page and see what is supported . https://www.philscomputerlab.com/nvidia-9x-gr … cs-drivers.html

This wasn't always the case with old graphics cards (drivers weren't mature back then especially concerning compatibility) as I've seen this first-hand when installing drivers on a Voodoo2, TNT2 and GF4 MX cards in Windows 98.

The drivers that are on Phil's website have a decent amount of them to try except for early Windows NT based operating systems (when one really needs them) due to them not being commonly used by consumers.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 25 of 32, by Con 2 botones

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I would keep the Savage 4 (especially if it is an "extreme" edition) and add a Voodoo2 for the problematic games.

That´s what I´ve done in my PII 450 rig. Savage 4 extreme edition with DVI (excellent image quality) plus a 12MB Voodoo 2.
Really like this Savage4, it outperforms the Voodoo2 in most cases, but for Glide games you must go 3DFX.

Just in case, I´ve tried the following drivers for the Savage4 with success:

Official-> S3_Savage4_8.20.31_win9X (30-08-2000, 4.12.01.8226)
S3_Savage4 8.10.33 (4.11.01.8008) Engineering Release Driver

Unofficial-> treiber-savage4-w9x-8.20.35
treiber-savage4-w9x-8.20.38

Last edited by Con 2 botones on 2021-09-08, 13:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 26 of 32, by DrLucienSanchez

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I have used the following with my P2 400Mhz system - Mx440 (128bit), Quadro FX 500 (equivalent heavily OCd Geforce 128bit 5200 or Ocd 5500), even tried a Ti4200 , all 45.23 drivers, all severely bottlenecked by the CPU. So for older 3D gaming up to Quake 3, the Mx440 was the logical choice -Quake III gets around 35fps, all maxed out at 1024x768 - No point in higher-end cards due to bottleneck and there was no difference.

Ultimately settled on Intel i740 8mb as love to play Resident Evil 1 and 2, and the Geforce gave artifacts (horizontal lines), while the Intel renders everything perfect. I'll keep Quake 2/3, Max Payne etc for the P4 build.

Classic rig - MS6156 Ver 1.0 Bx7 Slot1 Motherboard - Pentium II Deschutes 400Mhz, 320MB PC100 RAM, 20GB SATA Toshiba 2.5 via IDE/SATA converter, Intel i740 8Mb AGP, Sun Microsystems 16" CRT Monitor - PN17J0 CRT monitor

Reply 27 of 32, by dragonerosso

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-06, 21:12:
dragonerosso wrote on 2021-09-06, 21:06:

thanks man 😀 about any radeon gpu model??

They're quite decent but they lack the 8-bit palettized texture support, have issues with fog table and have poor OpenGL driver support except the games where they were finetuned.

so finally a final and greatest gpu model as option what could it be on my P2 400mhz 3x128mb of ram? Also i will use this machine on my EIZO CRT T550 😀

Reply 28 of 32, by Gmlb256

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dragonerosso wrote on 2021-09-08, 12:05:

so finally a final and greatest gpu model as option what could it be on my P2 400mhz 3x128mb of ram? Also i will use this machine on my EIZO CRT T550 😀

The GeForce2 cards or a GeForce4 MX440 (make sure that it has 128-bit memory interface as there are the SE version that has inconsistencies there) mentioned is suitable for that CPU.

If you want better compatibility try getting the Voodoo2 but it is more expensive and slower than the GeForces (as I said on the previous post you can buy both the GeForce and Voodoo2 if you can afford them since latter acts as a secondary adapter).

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS

Reply 29 of 32, by dragonerosso

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Gmlb256 wrote on 2021-09-08, 12:26:
dragonerosso wrote on 2021-09-08, 12:05:

so finally a final and greatest gpu model as option what could it be on my P2 400mhz 3x128mb of ram? Also i will use this machine on my EIZO CRT T550 😀

The GeForce2 cards or a GeForce4 MX440 (make sure that it has 128-bit memory interface as there are the SE version that has inconsistencies there) mentioned is suitable for that CPU.

If you want better compatibility try getting the Voodoo2 but it is more expensive and slower than the GeForces (as I said on the previous post you can buy both the GeForce and Voodoo2 if you can afford them since latter acts as a secondary adapter).

very useful info 😀 thanks a lot man

Reply 30 of 32, by KT7AGuy

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dragonerosso,

Check out this compatibility matrix here:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

My recommendations for your configuration:

1st Choice (If DOS games are your primary focus)
S3 Virge DX or GX with a Voodoo 1

2nd Choice (If both DOS and Windows games are your goal)
S3 Virge DX or GX with two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI
This is gonna be expensive, but it's worth it if you want GLIDE compatibility with excellent DOS compatibility.

3rd Choice (If you're mostly concerned with Windows games)
Voodoo 3 3000 or 3500
This used to be a cheap all-in-one solution.
It's still cheaper than getting Voodoo 2 cards and it's still an all-in-one solution. Also, it's slightly faster than two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI. Also, great image quality and good DOS compatibility too. This should be your 1st choice if DOS games aren't your biggest concern.

4th Choice (If you're mostly concerned with Windows games)
Matrox G400 Max with two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI
This is gonna be expensive, but it's worth it if you want GLIDE compatibility with the very best image quality. You also get environmental bump mapping for the few games that supported it at the time, like Evolva.

5th Choice (If both DOS and Windows games are your goal)
S3 Virge DX or GX with a single Voodoo 2

Do you really need a Voodoo card? Certainly not. There are wrappers and workarounds available for 95% of the games that would use a real Voodoo card. If you want to be cheap and still run GLIDE games, just use a combination of GLIDE wrappers and DOSBox to fill in the gaps.

At this point in time there are only a handful of games that keep me hoarding my old parts:
European Air War
EF2000
MechWarrior II (3dfx Version)
Archimedean Dynasty
... and there are even workarounds for these too, so you can get them working on newer systems.

Reply 31 of 32, by matze79

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i would go for GeForce 2MX 400 or 2 GTS.
Maybe Asus V7700.

It would give a good Performance Ratio at low Cost.
And you would be able to crank up Resolution for 5:4/4:3 TFT.

https://www.retrokits.de - blog, retro projects, hdd clicker, diy soundcards etc
https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 32 of 32, by Gmlb256

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KT7AGuy wrote on 2021-09-08, 13:23:
dragonerosso, […]
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dragonerosso,

Check out this compatibility matrix here:
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

My recommendations for your configuration:

1st Choice (If DOS games are your primary focus)
S3 Virge DX or GX with a Voodoo 1

2nd Choice (If both DOS and Windows games are your goal)
S3 Virge DX or GX with two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI
This is gonna be expensive, but it's worth it if you want GLIDE compatibility with excellent DOS compatibility.

3rd Choice (If you're mostly concerned with Windows games)
Voodoo 3 3000 or 3500
This used to be a cheap all-in-one solution.
It's still cheaper than getting Voodoo 2 cards and it's still an all-in-one solution. Also, it's slightly faster than two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI. Also, great image quality and good DOS compatibility too. This should be your 1st choice if DOS games aren't your biggest concern.

4th Choice (If you're mostly concerned with Windows games)
Matrox G400 Max with two Voodoo 2 cards in SLI
This is gonna be expensive, but it's worth it if you want GLIDE compatibility with the very best image quality. You also get environmental bump mapping for the few games that supported it at the time, like Evolva.

5th Choice (If both DOS and Windows games are your goal)
S3 Virge DX or GX with a single Voodoo 2

Do you really need a Voodoo card? Certainly not. There are wrappers and workarounds available for 95% of the games that would use a real Voodoo card. If you want to be cheap and still run GLIDE games, just use a combination of GLIDE wrappers and DOSBox to fill in the gaps.

At this point in time there are only a handful of games that keep me hoarding my old parts:
European Air War
EF2000
MechWarrior II (3dfx Version)
Archimedean Dynasty
... and there are even workarounds for these too, so you can get them working on newer systems.

I don't think dragonerosso needs DOS compatibility in a big way, he uses a PII CPU and that ASUS motherboard has an AGP slot. Most people here with a Slot 1 computer will likely use a nVidia, Matrox or Voodoo3 graphics card on that AGP slot.

Also while Gona list is decent to check which card is suitable for DOS, a good part of the games tested there are obscure and most don't care about this.

Voodoo cards aren't really necessary like you said if one just want to play games unless he wants to experience how the things actually were back then.

VIA C3 Nehemiah 1.2A @ 1.46 GHz | ASUS P2-99 | 256 MB PC133 SDRAM | GeForce3 Ti 200 64 MB | Voodoo2 12 MB | SBLive! | AWE64 | SBPro2 | GUS