VOGONS


First post, by feipoa

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I have this boxed, yet dead, MSI NX6800GT graphics card. The box had definitely been opened previously, however the graphics card itself had no dust on it. The fan blade assembly was partially off the stater such that the blade was stuck on the plastic housing (ceased). I pressed the fan back in and tested just the fan with an external power supply. The fan spins fine and isn't noisy at all.

When I put the graphics card into the computer, the screen stays blank at power-up. The fan starts to spin then stops. I tried unplugging the two molex cables from the card and booting, but the card's internal speaker beeps at me, which I suspect is to alert me that the molex isn't plugged in. I tried both DVI ports, still nothing.

Does anyone know common points of failure in these cards, especially ones which don't appear to have seen service? Any idea what I should be troubleshooting? I suspect that the ceased position of the fan may have caused whatever is responsible for the fan controller to fry when the original owner tried to power it up. On the other hand, the ceased fan position may be unrelated. Considering that the fan begins to turn at power-up, perhaps the issue is unrelated to the fan controller?

The card contains a huge solid copper heatsink. Would removing it offer any insight?

I tried the graphics card in 3 different computers.
1) MSI MS-9105, which is a dual Tualatin 1.5 GHz board with 4x AGP.
2) Intel S875WP1-E, which is an entry server desktop board containing a P4 Prescott 3.4 GHz with 8x AGP.
3) Asrock 939Dual-SATA2, which contains an Opteron 185 with 8x AGP.

I don't feel like opening up the cases to check the power supplies, but I recall that they are all at least 400 or 450 W.

All the boards have at least 3 GB of RAM. Could being maxed out on resources cause the MB not to assign resources to the card, causing the issues? Seems unlikely and I've never heard of this happening.

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Reply 1 of 29, by The Serpent Rider

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1. That's not an MSI card. PCB is green and there's no signs of added MSI stickers.
2. VRM and second DVI indicates that it might be 6800 Ultra with slapped MSI cooler. I would check serial numbers to be sure.
3. Judging by the symptoms, it looks like VRM has short circuit somewhere and PSU protection kicks in.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 2 of 29, by watson

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

1. That's not an MSI card. PCB is green and there's no signs of added MSI stickers.

Umm, MSI themselves have a green PCB on the official site: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/NX6800GTTD256/Gallery

The 6800 Ultra theory might be true though, the PCB seems to line up with the one on VGA Museum (also green).
There might be a MS-#### marking under the cooler which could be used to confirm this.

As for the troubleshooting, check for a short to ground on +5V and +12V on the Molex connectors.

Reply 3 of 29, by The Serpent Rider

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Umm, MSI themselves have a green PCB on the official site

Promotional material =/= real life.

There might be a MS-#### marking under the cooler which could be used to confirm this.

If there's no serials in clear view which match the box number, this will strongly indicate that card was taken from somewhere else.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 4 of 29, by feipoa

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OK. I think Serpent Rider is right - someone performed the ole switchero. The graphics chipset says GEFORCE 6800 U, which I assume is Ultra?

I saw two different colours of heatsink compound - silver and white on the GPU.

Why is the slot cover a double wide bracket?

There was no short between 5v to GND and 12 V to GND.

The PCB contains two small voltage regulators, AM1117. Do these go bad? There's also a bunch of tiny transistors.

I'm not really sure what to test for. Is this card destined to go into the bid of dead PCB's? The copper heatsink itself is really nice, but I don't think I have any use for it.

I have a cheap hair drier style heat gun. Should I try to reflow the GPU? If so, what temp and for how long?

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Reply 5 of 29, by RetroBoogie

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So, it may not apply to your situation but I am in the process of restoring 2 9800 Pros that have had components knocked off (inductors, ceramic caps, resistors). I already fixed a Quadro FX 1000 using electrolytics and it fired right up.

My point is go over the whole card (front and back) with a magnifying glass and really pay attention to empty solder pads. Does it look abnormal ie. something was ripped from there? If you find a missing component, you will have to search for images of that exact PCB to try to identify what goes there, then go about sourcing it from another scrap card or buying new components. Some of these tiny SMD components are easily popped out of place with the minor force at the right angles.

Or maybe something is just fried. 😀 Perhaps plug it in and measure voltages while it's on if you're hardcore.

Reply 6 of 29, by feipoa

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Well, the reality is that this card is not an MSI-branded card. I would have more passion to fix it if it was an MSI NX6800 with dual DVI ports. The 6800GT itself isn't all that rare and the the effort to troubleshoot it is probably not worth it for me right now. The card overall looks very clean, but I suspect the GPU is fried or needs a BGA reflow.

Was it common for 6800 Ultra cards to fry?

My guess is that the previous owner got the card DOA. He went ahead and bought the MSI-branded one. That is why he has the box. He noticed that the fan was larger on the dead 6800 Ultra, and thus put it onto his MSI MX6800GT. He slapped the MSI heatsink/fan onto the dead Ultra then stuffed it into the MSI box. I do not believe the seller is the original owner, but it is possible. If he/she was the original owner, that is a pretty dubious sales strategy. I have received my money back, minus shipping. Should I fight for the $13 in shipping? I've placed the dead Ultra in my box of dead PCBs for now. If I pull it out again, I'll more carefully check for missing components as you suggest. You think recapping those larger caps might bring it back 'eh?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 7 of 29, by RetroBoogie

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Not necessarily those larger caps unless they test bad with a DMM. You could do a quick check of all the caps (aluminum and SMD) with a continuity check. There shouldn't be a signal getting through unless the cap is shorted out meaning it's bad. I can't see anything scraped off in your photos, but then again they are a bit grainy when viewed in full so I can't be sure. By no means am I an electrical engineer, just a hobbyist who dabbles in self-taught repair of dc circuit boards.

I'm not sure how common it was for 6800s to have heat issues, but I know my BFG Ultra has a massive heatsink blower on it that has slightly warped the top-middle of the board due to the torque required (?) to hold that part of the memory cooler. I had to be really careful when lubricating the fan and replacing the thermal pads not to get aggressive with those screws. Sorry about your luck, at least you got your money back (mostly). They knew what they were selling.

Reply 8 of 29, by feipoa

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Are we not supposed to cinch those screws down? I've been turning them until the screw driver skips off the screw head. Is this the wrong approach?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 9 of 29, by RetroBoogie

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No, you're fine. Mine has springs on each screw so that you can kind of prevents overtightening. I just got a little wary of my board when I noticed the warping, but I think it was somewhat expected when it was designed. Plus it's old by now. That and my occasional gorilla hands. 😀

Reply 10 of 29, by watson

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I've become very careful with these screws. They are very thin and if the head snaps, you will probably be looking for a new heatsink.
It happened to me once, thankfully it was on a dead card.

Reply 11 of 29, by SW-SSG

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These HSFs are usually designed so that their screws will stop at a set point. So, there should be no real chance of cracking dies or breaking PCBs in half through over-tightening.

Reply 12 of 29, by meljor

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Ultra is much more rare and way more expensive/collectors item than a GT. If you can save it it is worth it.

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asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
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asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 13 of 29, by feipoa

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OK, because I just wrenched down the screws on my 7900GS AGP card today before installing it in my Prescott. So there are stops you say? It did seem like the screws teached a point in which they just stopped turning, like it reached a dead end. Nothing like when screwing a screw into wood.

meljor, well, I at least put it into an anti-static bag before putting it in the overflowing box of dead PCBs. If someone knows the exact recipe for reflowing the BGA chip with a crummy heat gun + thermocouple, I'll try it.

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 14 of 29, by 3dprophet

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I found this card with a green PCB, says MSI on the cooler, but GPU-Z says CardExpert.

http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/news/item … orce-6800-ultra

I see your copper cooler on the red PCB MSI version.

Reply 15 of 29, by feipoa

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I managed to find an MSI 8966 6800GT for a decent price. It has a different heatsink though. At any rate, is this red PCB the one which belongs to this box? And does the pure copper heatsink from the dead card belong to the red card? If so, I can swap it and have a boxed item. I'm not sure why the heatsink/fan on the red MSI 8966 has an eVGA fan. Did someone switch it?

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Reply 16 of 29, by SW-SSG

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feipoa wrote:

... At any rate, is this red PCB the one which belongs to this box? ... I'm not sure why the heatsink/fan on the red MSI 8966 has an eVGA fan. Did someone switch it?

No better way to find out than to pull that HSF off and see if someone sold you something else again!

That said, the model code on the back (MICRO-STAR Model 8966) does appear to correspond to an MSI NX6800GT-TD256. Perhaps the original HSF's fan failed or something.

Reply 17 of 29, by feipoa

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Ran Quake III timedemo and PCMark, so the red card appears to function. I'm going to put the proper MSI heatsink on now. For the memory heat transfer pads, do you put paste on them?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.

Reply 18 of 29, by feipoa

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Here is a photo of the card without the heatsink.

But wait, what is this - part of the AGP connector is missing? Is this normal? It looks deliberate. What function does this serve? I think it is a ground pin.

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Reply 19 of 29, by feipoa

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So much for my boxed MSI collection. Is there any way to fix this? Maybe strip the pad off a dead AGP board and glue it with a very thin layer of JB Weld or other epoxy?

Plan your life wisely, you'll be dead before you know it.