VOGONS


First post, by ruthan

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Hello,
i have PIII - multiboot Win98/Windows 2000 / XP machine with PIII + Radeon 9800.

In Win98 + XP OpenGL is working fine, within Windows 2000 Direct3D are running, but no OpenGL games for some reason, is not available to initialize it i tried it with Quake 2 / Quake 3, same binaries. So problem is probably video driver, or some Windows thing..

Im using same binaries for all system testing.

Last edited by ruthan on 2021-05-15, 23:25. Edited 2 times in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 1 of 55, by ruthan

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I still have problem with this.

It seems that its not in general OpenGL problem because Vampire Masquerade is working but Quake 2/3 problem..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 2 of 55, by ruthan

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Some pictures..
XP is using 10.2 driver - fine, WIn 2000 - 6.14 driver.
You can also see Quake 3 error, it seems that some 3dfx mode trying to inicialized, i could have nGLide installed in the pass and maybe Voodoo 1/2, but drivers are now uninstalled now.

I vaguely remember that i see this PixelFormat error on Voodoo 1 a 2 on Windows 98.. and it was maybe related to some VMMEM..*.vxd or file with similar name so i maybe only need to remove or replace this file.. Im also not sure how ATI and Openg32.dll is working with Win2000.. This is first time, when i actually will testing Windows 2000 more deeply.. I would be nice comparison with Win98/Win2000/WinXP, machine has max mem 1536 MB 133MHz so XP, ISA SB16, Gigabit 3com NIC could be usable.. and curios how much performace this faster PIII Tualatin could squeeze from Radeon 9800..

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 4 of 55, by DosFreak

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Hard to understand what you are asking.
If you starting that you are having an OGL issue on Windows 2000 and XP or only on one and not on the other and it's only for ID engine games then likely it's an OGL extension issue. You can try newer or older atiogl files.
You can also try a port of the game as well:
2000 - Quake 3 1.32e
2000 BWC - ioQuake3 ioquake3-1.36-3.1.x86
2000 BWC or XP - Q3Bers_GT-pack_20100926
XP -
IoQuake3 from 6-22-2017 worked last i tested.
Spearmint 1.0.3

BlackWingcat does have modified ATI drivers for 2000 and XP and it looks like 10.11 may not require BWC kernel, if 10.11 too new for that card then try an older version::
http://blog.livedoor.jp/blackwingcat/archives/571484.html
http://win2k.org/wlu/wluen.htm

Also see the following for an angry rant Re: Anachronox crashes with ATI v5.8 drivers

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Reply 5 of 55, by ruthan

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Thanks for replies.

XP is fine, Win2000 SP4 Pro not. Because im using same binaries, it wouldnt be problem with game configs, only something with Windows 2000 settings, drivers.. my guess is really some *.dll, *.vxd mess or some special behavior of these games on Windows 2000.
I dont really know how exactly is OpenGL initialized.. what Vampire Masquerade do by other way than Quake 2/3 do. I would help to know that these games are working with other ATI cards for other people.

Desktop is already set to 32bit, so problem is elsewhere..

BlackWingCat - well, lowlevel magic. Im not near this level of hacking, i planned to start with quite vanilla Win2000 let these for later.

Otherwise my setup is not ideal, its second keyboard/mouse on my table.. and that machine has fanless PSU, that i hate.. and even when i tried to use some better fans cpu fan could be better too. I also had problem with modern screen.. my LG 27 144 IPS monitor has not analog inputs.. when i use Radeon DVI to HDMI input on monitor, im getting picture only for boot and some lesser resolution, otherwise black screen, when im using tome ATEN 1600 VGA to DVI adapter, its working when i force maximal monitor resolution to something resonable - 1600x1200 or something.. otherwise then is autodetected, im getting only blinking.. and when gpu drivers are reinstalled monitor is redetected to some incompatible resolution.. so i have to move machine to other room, with other monitor to fix it. WinXP i managed to do it through Anydesk remote desktop, because it seems that even with older Teamviewer 8 portable is now possible to connect older machines, because some security protection crap. With Win2000 is even more problematic.. Anydesk has probably not Windows 2000 version, im not sure if Windows 2000 have something like Remote desktop server, or only client.. so i would have to using probably some awfull VNC or something like that..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 6 of 55, by ruthan

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Here are Quake 2 demo errors.. Sin demo has same problem:

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 8 of 55, by ruthan

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I found out which file made that ugly PixelFormat error with some V1 or V2 drivers with Quake games.. it was.. fxmemmap.vxd , but i dont have such file in Windows2000 at all. I also tried old trick to copy OpenGL32.dll from WinXP to Win2000 system folder, but it wasnt solution.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 9 of 55, by ruthan

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I tried Blackwingcats drivers, but 9.x and 10.xx seems to support only newer cards, 8.11 suports Radeon 9800 Pro, but im getting reboot when they are installed, even not safe mode and i had to force VGA mode boot, to recover.. so im back at 6.4 last official. Maybe it needs some Windows 2000 updates.. - Tried link above with IE6 that is giving me only some *.wlu file, which i dunno how to open or i can download updates one by one.. there are also some Radeon newer radeon drivers..
Only good thing is that TightVNC server/viewer combo is working for remote desktop even before windows logon, so i cant force 1600x1200 display driver to fix monitor compatibility.

I also tried GLHexen 2 demo, which have own OpenGL32 driver.. with its OpenGL32.dll also with Opengl32.dll from Windows\System folder.. but for both im getting only sound and blackscreen regardless of -witdth and -height paramers.. In software its working fine.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 10 of 55, by DosFreak

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.WLU files are just compressed files.They can be extracted with 7-zip or http://blog.livedoor.jp/blackwingcat/archives/1995327.html

Likely BSOD are due to the drivers requiring an API that is missing that would be installed with a newer update. I remember back in the day Cat 8.4 working on Windows 2000, can't remember if the inf had to be modified or not though. Mabye 7.4 without hacking the inf?

Last edited by DosFreak on 2021-05-15, 01:43. Edited 3 times in total.

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Reply 11 of 55, by ruthan

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I at least discovered which OpenGL driver is used by working Vampire Masquerade:

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Its ati2dvag.dll

Its not just generic OpenGL32.dll.

Otherwise i played a bit with Windows 2000 update link above.. wlu files are used by drag and drop to some wlu update script which can be downloaded here.. but Radeon Drivers are the same as on BlackWing site, so same boot crash and lots of that updates need some kernel extensions hacks.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 12 of 55, by ruthan

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Tried old trick to add this dll to game folder or rename it to Opengl32.dll, but its not working for Nvidia and GlHexen / GLQuake it sometimes working.

Otherwise fraps seems not to working for Vampire and Windows 2000, i have 2.72 which is last Fraps for Windows 2000? Or its there other FPS monitoring tool for Win2000? With XP same version is working fine.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 13 of 55, by ruthan

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Here Quake 3 GL driver info from XP.. but there is not *.dll name.. im not so friendly with Quake 3 console to discover which *.dll is actually used, well its probably somewhere in console history from game start i will check it, later machine is now down..

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 14 of 55, by ruthan

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Ok, Quake III is using generic C:\Windows\system32\opengl32.dll , which is as far i understand just MS file part of Windows installation..

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Question is from where is PIXELFORMAT error coming from, if this DLL is calling some other *.dll files or if that Windows 2000 opengl32.dll implementation sucks and is incomplete.. but that not explain why just replace Win2000 for WinXP one is not working unless, there are some WinXP specific hooks.
I really like too see some Windows XP/2000 OpenGL initialization diagram.. which files are in the play.. and maybe some OpenGL compatibility test/ benchmark would be handy too.. There are also some OpenGL implementation version, maybe Windows 2000 is using older implementation, but Quake 3 is 1999 game, so used version has to be pretty old..

Update:
This is too abstract:
Generic-OpenGL-Program-Structure_GLEW.png
OpenGL Extension= OpenGL Extension Wrangler Library (GLEW) is a cross-platform open-source C/C++ extension loading library.

This better but for VIsta:
img2.png
https://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/48/2
Where is finnally see for what that ICD often mention by developers is for.. it seems that for OpenGL32.dll should be always called and after than it do some magic and provide some interfaces and use some IHV provided Certified Driver - that would be probably Videocard driver.. so problem is probably what Windows 2000 MS Opengl32.dll is not enough compatible with ATI OpenGL driver to provide working interface for call PIXELFORMAT function..

And its not only about OpenGL versions, but also about OpenGL extensions.. because problemy different drivers, cards are providing different sets.. and also different games are using different set of extension.. from highlevel it could be a bit mess.. but from point of view of Quake 3 video menu, GL extension should be only optimal not required feature.. there is some On/Off switch.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 15 of 55, by ruthan

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Hmm that ATI OpenGL implementation really sucks, i tried couple of other game demos..
Half Life 1 - cant inicialize OpenGL
Homerworld - the same
Myth II demo - OpenGL 1.1 - whitescreen and few green pixels..

I expected that ATI OpenGL would be slower as always was, some glitches, but that it would work.. this is other clear reason why to use Nvidia cards.

Last edited by ruthan on 2021-05-15, 23:26. Edited 2 times in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 16 of 55, by Styler

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What driver are you using? Is this driver for combined w2kxp or xp or w2k? Pure xp driver can be incompatible with w2k version and as a result you can have partial problems in some applications. I usually use GLinfo2 utility for checking opengl driver (attached). In most cases you don't have to touch opengl32.dll - it's default GDI 1.1 Microsoft software implementation. Graphics drivers ship with own opengl driver which in Wndows overrides by the registry key. ATI cards usually use "atioglxx.dll"as opengl driver. Check registry key "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\OpenGLDrivers\" and post what do you have there. I'd do a clean setup for graphics drivers. Sometimes windows keep old version of miniport driver and it's causes a lot of troubles. I use Driver Cleaner Pro and select batch operation for all ATI related drivers/tools.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/driv … ofessional.html

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Reply 17 of 55, by ruthan

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It took me quite some time to make some ATI Drivers Windows 98/2000 colletion, most of these drivers are now in Vogons drivers library..

Im using 6.14 which by some folder name - "2KXP_INF" is universal.. In header is this- so its WinNT+
; Base INF Last Updated 2003/05/22

[Version]
Signature="$Windows NT$"

Thanks for utility, i will post other info later.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 18 of 55, by ruthan

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Here are GLinfo and Registry picture..
I assume that Generic OpenGL in GLinfo is wrong.. same as 3dfx key?

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 19 of 55, by Styler

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Delete 3dfx key from registry and run glinfo2 again (glinfo2 always shows correct information about OGL driver). Your system is trying to use 3dfxogl, apparently can't find/use this dll file and falls back to opengl32.dll default driver