VOGONS


First post, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hello guys. I have a build of K6-2+ 500mhz on DFI K6BV3+/66
Current video card is Radeon 7000 (tul) 32MB
I ordered Geforce 2 MX400 as I thought it fits better to this machine and I get more performance from it.
Am I right? Or should I order TNT or TNT2 for that machine to get the most performance?

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 1 of 42, by Nemo1985

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

According to my experience (I do not own that DFI but I have several SS7 mb) the gf2mx400 is yout best choice, the tnt series had more issues with the buggy agp implementation of the ss7 era.
Just don't forget to install the via4in1 and if you encounter instability set the agp to 1x in the bios

Reply 2 of 42, by BinaryDemon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

If your gonna try for Quake3, that GeforceMX will help.

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 3 of 42, by swaaye

User metadata
Rank Moderator
Rank
Moderator

GF4 MX is also popular.

Though I usually prefer a Voodoo3 in K6-level machines because Glide will help you get the most from that CPU, and you're not going to have AGP related problems with a Voodoo3.

Reply 4 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thank you guys. I'll try with Geforce and see how it goes. I found a lot of video cards... All of them with cracked capacitors.
I also found Matrox G2+, what do you think about this card? Looks like trash, what I found from the internet. I grabbed it in Goodwill computers long time ago, it cost 1 bucks but I liked that SIMM slot on it.

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 5 of 42, by Repo Man11

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Be sure to give this thread a read: DFI K6XV3+/66 (ATX SS7 board) unstable with GeForce cards - BIOS bug

With my Soyo 5EMA+ (same chipset) I've used three different AGP cards: A Radeon 9200, an MX400 and a GeForce 3 Ti 200, and all have worked fine.

Reply 6 of 42, by swaaye

User metadata
Rank Moderator
Rank
Moderator
kirikl wrote on 2020-08-18, 22:15:

Thank you guys. I'll try with Geforce and see how it goes. I found a lot of video cards... All of them with cracked capacitors.
I also found Matrox G2+, what do you think about this card? Looks like trash, what I found from the internet. I grabbed it in Goodwill computers long time ago, it cost 1 bucks but I liked that SIMM slot on it.

That's a Matrox G200. It was for a very brief period of time in 1998 the best 2D+3D card. Should have clear output quality and be fast for 2D in general. It is a bit faster than Voodoo1 for games and much nicer image quality.

Reply 7 of 42, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

GeForce 2 MX should be best and safest Nvidia option for early and capricious AGP systems. But if you want to squeeze better performance at high resolutions, pick GeForce 4 MX.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me

Reply 8 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I'm staying with universal safe option. Will see how it goes with GF2 MX400. Waiting.
Thanks!

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 9 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
swaaye wrote on 2020-08-18, 22:51:
kirikl wrote on 2020-08-18, 22:15:

Thank you guys. I'll try with Geforce and see how it goes. I found a lot of video cards... All of them with cracked capacitors.
I also found Matrox G2+, what do you think about this card? Looks like trash, what I found from the internet. I grabbed it in Goodwill computers long time ago, it cost 1 bucks but I liked that SIMM slot on it.

That's a Matrox G200. It was for a very brief period of time in 1998 the best 2D+3D card. Should have clear output quality and be fast for 2D in general. It is a bit faster than Voodoo1 for games and much nicer image quality.

Interesting! I might try this video card some day. I don't even know if it's working.

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 10 of 42, by Nemo1985

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
kirikl wrote on 2020-08-19, 05:12:

I'm staying with universal safe option. Will see how it goes with GF2 MX400. Waiting.
Thanks!

A wise choice!
The gf4 will need newer drivers that lack the proper optimizations for older amd cpus, the gf2mx400 will serve you very well, you will be cpu limited, in quake2 with opengl you will get the same fps from 640 to 1024...
As suggested the very best video card for ss7 would be a voodoo3 but they are insanely expensive and they are going to be less powerfull than gf2mx.

Reply 11 of 42, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

You will love this combo, but as Repo Man11 suggested, make sure that you read everything in my thread here: DFI K6XV3+/66 (ATX SS7 board) unstable with GeForce cards - BIOS bug
The GeForce 2 MX is perfect for SS7, but it has to be a real GeForce 2 MX 400, with an 128 bit memory bus. There are many OEM cards which are marketed as MX400, but they are actually more similar to MX200.

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k

Reply 12 of 42, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
swaaye wrote on 2020-08-18, 22:51:

That's a Matrox G200. It was for a very brief period of time in 1998 the best 2D+3D card. Should have clear output quality and be fast for 2D in general. It is a bit faster than Voodoo1 for games and much nicer image quality.

Ist was a shit Card in 1998 hab various Problems with drivers , Rendering errors , Transparency issues...

I bought one back then And Quickly replaced it with a 3Dfx Banshee

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 13 of 42, by shamino

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

For whatever it's worth, I remember installing a Matrox driver for the G200 that added support for multiple desktops (as often seen on Unix GUIs). That was on Windows 2000 though, no idea if they did that under Win9x.
That was a very long time ago. Much more recently I installed a driver for a G400 under Win98 and didn't see that feature. Maybe it was just for NT.

Since you probably aren't planning to do "serious desktop computing" on this machine, the value of multiple desktops is certainly questionable. But it's the only card where I've ever run into that feature in a Windows driver.

Back in the day, lots of people used to insist that a K6 series CPU shouldn't have anything later than a TNT2, but that wisdom was wrong. A GF2 MX can push performance a bit further and it's easier on the motherboard (electrically).

With the Geforce2 MX, resist the temptation to install a late driver. Older drivers are faster with the K6 CPUs. It's kind of erratic from version to version though, like NVidia didn't pay consistent attention to testing on K6 (shocking). If you want to optimize then find some way to benchmark the games you care about. In general I like 8.05 or whatever it was (8.something anyway).

Reply 14 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
shamino wrote on 2020-08-20, 13:31:
For whatever it's worth, I remember installing a Matrox driver for the G200 that added support for multiple desktops (as often s […]
Show full quote

For whatever it's worth, I remember installing a Matrox driver for the G200 that added support for multiple desktops (as often seen on Unix GUIs). That was on Windows 2000 though, no idea if they did that under Win9x.
That was a very long time ago. Much more recently I installed a driver for a G400 under Win98 and didn't see that feature. Maybe it was just for NT.

Since you probably aren't planning to do "serious desktop computing" on this machine, the value of multiple desktops is certainly questionable. But it's the only card where I've ever run into that feature in a Windows driver.

Back in the day, lots of people used to insist that a K6 series CPU shouldn't have anything later than a TNT2, but that wisdom was wrong. A GF2 MX can push performance a bit further and it's easier on the motherboard (electrically).

With the Geforce2 MX, resist the temptation to install a late driver. Older drivers are faster with the K6 CPUs. It's kind of erratic from version to version though, like NVidia didn't pay consistent attention to testing on K6 (shocking). If you want to optimize then find some way to benchmark the games you care about. In general I like 8.05 or whatever it was (8.something anyway).

Thank you for that long answer! Actually I tried 77.xx - very bad.... then 41 - much better! Now trying 8.05, Windows 98 is so shitty. No problem with DVI under 2k... but 98 is a pain in the a$$. I can't get to work my USB 2.0 in 98... It's just errors... I just disable them in hardware list. Fighting with DVI now in 98.
Win 2k seems fine with modern 77 driver, but I'm not running games there.

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 15 of 42, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

did you remove all USB Drivers and then install the nusb pack ?
i never had issues with usb 2.0.

You may have IRQ issues, specially with USB Cards that have up to 5 Ports and claim 2 IRQs..
Thats mostly the Case if People claim the can`t get USB 2.x working in old Boards.
You can assign IRQs to PCI Slots by BIOS.
i would recommend go for NEC OHCI PCI Cards.
Why not use MVP3s USB 1.1 onboard ?

I run GeForce MX440 64Mb inside the HOT591P, it runs very good.

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 16 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

USB: Usb 2 works in 2k well. Problem is with usb 2.0 hub driver... It hangs after attempt to reboot with:
Fatal error 0E - 0028:FF08C785 in VXD Usbhub20 + 00015a5
I'm using HP PCI card with internal USB ports. I have card reader, front USB ports working, well in win 2k.
Video: I played with video drivers. So - 8.05 for 98 and 45 for 2k looks fine. Fast in 98! Finally those games like need for speed 3 works fine!

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 17 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have different problem now. Heatsink is very hot. How hot it Should be on GF2 MX400?

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 18 of 42, by kirikl

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
matze79 wrote on 2020-08-22, 10:17:
did you remove all USB Drivers and then install the nusb pack ? i never had issues with usb 2.0. […]
Show full quote

did you remove all USB Drivers and then install the nusb pack ?
i never had issues with usb 2.0.

You may have IRQ issues, specially with USB Cards that have up to 5 Ports and claim 2 IRQs..
Thats mostly the Case if People claim the can`t get USB 2.x working in old Boards.
You can assign IRQs to PCI Slots by BIOS.
i would recommend go for NEC OHCI PCI Cards.
Why not use MVP3s USB 1.1 onboard ?

I run GeForce MX440 64Mb inside the HOT591P, it runs very good.

After spending some time with this computer... I'm so close to replace it with BX motherboard or even Pentium III. I still like the idea of Super Socket 7.... DOS on the edge and Windows 98 with decent performance, together. But looks like I want too much from it, too much universality. I loaded up this system with everything I can and still looks like BX with PII will be much better alternative and more stable.
What do you think?

DFI K6vx+66/k6-2+ @550/768mb/GF 2 mx400
HP TC4200 +SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-SRX99+SSD
Sony Vaio PCG-505TR +SSD
Sony Vaio Picturebook C1+SSD
Compaq LTE Elite 4/75CXL +CF
Toshiba T3100e/40+CF
Tandy 1400 LT
PowerBook G4 1.33
PowerBook G3 300
iBook Clamshell 300

Reply 19 of 42, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

My suggestion is to remove the USB PCI adapter (and any other adapters that you don't really need on a SS7 platform). If you simply want to transfer data, there are other (much faster) ways of doing it - like a PATA/SATA to USB 3.0 adapter: just plug the HDD in your main rig & transfer everything you need. I've had many problems related to these PCI adapters on SS7, including extremely bad CPU performance. So I strongly recommend avoiding them.

The i440BX is generally a great, very stable platform, however it beeing better or not depends a lot on what you want to achieve:
- if you simply want a period correct system with decent performance in most Windows 98 games that were released before the 3rd millennium - i.e., before 2001 (and you are also looking for that 'cool factor'), then a PC with a Slot 1 440BX / Pentium 3 Coppermine / GeForce 2 GTS is certainly one of the first choices. This PC will also allow you to play quite a few DOS games, when using the right sound card. You could even use two sound cards - a Sound Blaster Live or Aureal Vortex 2 for Windows and an ISA card for DOS - or, you could go for a nice all-rounder such as an YMF7x4 card, which, especially on a 440BX, will work great in DOS with DDMA/SB-Link and will be very good for Windows too - albeit, not as good as the aforementioned cards). However, such a PC will lack the required speed flexibility that's needed in order to play as many DOS games as possible. In DOS it's either very fast or very slow (with the L1 cache disabled). So games that require a faster (but not too fast) CPU will have issues or will just refuse to run (patches can sometimes help with this, but not always). And as for Windows... well, it will generally be OK, but far from perfect. Games like NFS High Stakes/Porsche will struggle on such a system (especially by today's standards of "good framerates").
- if you want a very good all-in-one platform, that is very flexible when it comes to DOS + you are mostly interested in playing Windows games up to 1998 (and/or you don't really care about smooth framerates), a SS7 system is the way to go. Also, if you like tinkering with old hardware that does not necessarily run perfectly out of the box... a SS7 system is also the way to go - at least this is why I like them A LOT 😀
- if you want the ultimate time machine - a very stable PC that will allow you to play all Windows 98 games at VERY high resolutions & framerates + probably more than 98% of DOS games, then I would suggest something much more powerful and much more flexible - like an Athlon XP Thoroughbred / Athlon 64 running on a VIA chipset like the KT600 / K8T800. Add a GeForce 4 Ti 4200/4400/4600 (or, even better, an FX 5900) + a Yamaha YMF 7x4 sound card and... sky's the limit. 😁

2 x Socket 3 / 3 x Socket 7 / 4 x SuperSocket 7 / 4 x Slot 1 / 2 x Slot A / 5 x Socket 370
3 x Socket A / 1 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 2 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: AM4 - Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: LGA1151 - Core i7 7700k