VOGONS


First post, by malloc32

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Hello, I have bought a P200MMX 64MB, in a 430TX with an S3 VirgeDX . I want to improve its graphics performance. I don't want to spend a lot, voodoo are very expensive, I can't find GF4 MX440 at a good price, I had thought of some cheap Chinese graphics card, like the fx5500 PCI (memory 166MHZ/128bits) or a Geforce4 MX4000, I know the fx5500 in general It is faster, but when mounted with a p200mmx the drivers can penalize by having low CPU performance. The graphics cards of the time or have a low performance or are expensive ... I have seen some rage 128 Pro, riva 128 at a decent price (not cheap), but the geforce still perform better ...
OS will be Windows 95 or W98, which would be better for this configuration?
Greetings and thank you very much.

Reply 1 of 27, by chinny22

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All 3 use the same drivers so I'd expect the same performance as well as the CPU will be the bottleneck before reaching the cards limits.
I'd agree any of the 3 you mention are better choices then the Rage or Riva128

But make sure you try out the S3D games before you ditch the VirgeDX. It's not reason enough to keep the card but bit of fun while waiting for the replacement card to arrive
3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)

Reply 3 of 27, by BinaryDemon

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I'd be worried about the Pentium MMX handling driver bloat with something as new as the FX5500 or Geforce4 MX. Maybe look for a Geforce2 MX and try the oldest drivers available?

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 4 of 27, by Cyberdyne

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Pentium MMX is best with a TNT2 (M64) (Still can use Windows 3.1 drivers). And even Geforce 2 MX is good enough.

I am aroused about any X86 motherboard that has full functional ISA slot. I think i have problem. Not really into that original (Turbo) XT,286,386 and CGA/EGA stuff. So just a DOS nut.
PS. If I upload RAR, it is a 16-bit DOS RAR Version 2.50.

Reply 5 of 27, by malloc32

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The problem is that I do not found a geforce 2mx PCI or a tnt2(m64) PCI with a good prize. A Geforce 4 MX4000 cost about $34 or a fx5500 about $32 .... I know that fx5500 is newest, so is it better a Geforce4 mx4000 (64 bit memory) than a fx5500 for a 200MMX?

Reply 6 of 27, by mothergoose729

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The later nvidia drivers are really bad. The FX series is supported but the performance really suffers in windows 98, and on slower systems like a pentium MMX, you can actually get worse performance than with a more period correct card. A TNT2 or something of that era is really a better way to go. If you are willing to spend more money, a Voodoo 2 or Voodoo 3 would be ideal, IMO.

Reply 7 of 27, by Sphere478

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Supposedly the fastest pci card is the gt610 or possibly a gt730 but I can’t seem to find it.

But strange thing is, it will actually largely depend on the game. There absolutely will be a difference. The cpu isn’t the whole equation. But some of the difference will come from a place you may not expect. Game optimization, the fx5500 actually is one of the heavy hitters on pci for many late 90’s early 2000’s titles even keeping up with a 610 in many respects. (These are pci cards I remind you all) but the 610 is the fastest, just not in all scenarios.

Your motherboard has a decent chance of supporting a p1 tillamook or k6 2/3+ btw which can improve your performance a lot.

The k6 will allow your cachable ram to be more than you can install.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_T6bSoclM
Here is the hard data, hopefully I remembered correctly. It’s been a while since I watched it 🤣

Edit: I remembered incorrectly, replace instances of 5500 in my post with 9500

Last edited by Sphere478 on 2021-01-20, 19:59. Edited 1 time in total.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 8 of 27, by BinaryDemon

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 19:49:

Supposedly the fastest pci card is the gt610 or possibly a gt730 but I can’t seem to find it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_T6bSoclM

Thats great if your running XP, many of the 'fastest' pci cards don't have Win98 drivers.

Check out DOSBox Distro:

https://sites.google.com/site/dosboxdistro/ [*]

a lightweight Linux distro (tinycore) which boots off a usb flash drive and goes straight to DOSBox.

Make your dos retrogaming experience portable!

Reply 9 of 27, by Sphere478

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BinaryDemon wrote on 2021-01-20, 19:55:
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 19:49:

Supposedly the fastest pci card is the gt610 or possibly a gt730 but I can’t seem to find it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Al_T6bSoclM

Thats great if your running XP, many of the 'fastest' pci cards don't have Win98 drivers.

Indeed, I think driver support ended on geforce around the 6000 series right? Which is one of the reasons I have a 5500 as one of the cards I will try in my socket 7 I also have a 6200 but the 5500 should be faster

Also, don’t forget in 98 not to get a card more than 256mb supposedly there is some kind of glitch above 256

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 10 of 27, by malloc32

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My motherboard min vcore is 2.8V, so I can't install a K6-2, but really I want use an old pentium, for nostalgic. I can't find a period correct card with my budget, and voodoo are very expensive, so I think that my options are geforce4 mx4000 or fx5500, that cost around $30. On ebay I have to pay shipping cost, so these period correct cards are even more expensive...

Reply 11 of 27, by Sphere478

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malloc32 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:30:

My motherboard min vcore is 2.8V, so I can't install a K6-2, but really I want use an old pentium, for nostalgic. I can't find a period correct card with my budget, and voodoo are very expensive, so I think that my options are geforce4 mx4000 or fx5500, that cost around $30. On ebay I have to pay shipping cost, so these period correct cards are even more expensive...

See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2

A pentium tillamook is in line with your pentium requirement

It requires a pin to be jumpered and around 2v give or take

They pop up on ebay as pentium 1 266 socket 7

Here in a week or two I may be able to run some 5500 bench marks for you at a processor speed of your choosing

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 12 of 27, by mothergoose729

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Phil has a series on super socket 7 video cards. The results should be pretty similar on the pentium MMX if a bit slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gipW4lcUHg

edit: https://youtu.be/TIPtTM456cQ?t=679

Reply 13 of 27, by Sphere478

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:10:

Phil has a series on super socket 7 video cards. The results should be pretty similar on the pentium MMX if a bit slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gipW4lcUHg

edit: https://youtu.be/TIPtTM456cQ?t=679

I believe he is regular socket 7 and only has pci

Though there are pci to pci express and agp adapters

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 14 of 27, by mothergoose729

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:23:
mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:10:

Phil has a series on super socket 7 video cards. The results should be pretty similar on the pentium MMX if a bit slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gipW4lcUHg

edit: https://youtu.be/TIPtTM456cQ?t=679

I believe he is regular socket 7 and only has pci

I believe the results are comparable

Reply 15 of 27, by Sphere478

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mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:25:
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:23:
mothergoose729 wrote on 2021-01-20, 21:10:

Phil has a series on super socket 7 video cards. The results should be pretty similar on the pentium MMX if a bit slower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gipW4lcUHg

edit: https://youtu.be/TIPtTM456cQ?t=679

I believe he is regular socket 7 and only has pci

I believe the results are comparable

Fair enough, 😀

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 16 of 27, by malloc32

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:55:
See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2 […]
Show full quote
malloc32 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:30:

My motherboard min vcore is 2.8V, so I can't install a K6-2, but really I want use an old pentium, for nostalgic. I can't find a period correct card with my budget, and voodoo are very expensive, so I think that my options are geforce4 mx4000 or fx5500, that cost around $30. On ebay I have to pay shipping cost, so these period correct cards are even more expensive...

See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2

A pentium tillamook is in line with your pentium requirement

It requires a pin to be jumpered and around 2v give or take

They pop up on ebay as pentium 1 266 socket 7

Here in a week or two I may be able to run some 5500 bench marks for you at a processor speed of your choosing

Thank you very much. I will play some days with its s3 virge , I wait to see your benchmarks. Thank you very much.
I will measure vcore without jumpers , it is a KM-T5-T1.

Thank you.

Reply 17 of 27, by Sphere478

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malloc32 wrote on 2021-01-20, 22:34:
Thank you very much. I will play some days with its s3 virge , I wait to see your benchmarks. Thank you very much. I will meas […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:55:
See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2 […]
Show full quote
malloc32 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:30:

My motherboard min vcore is 2.8V, so I can't install a K6-2, but really I want use an old pentium, for nostalgic. I can't find a period correct card with my budget, and voodoo are very expensive, so I think that my options are geforce4 mx4000 or fx5500, that cost around $30. On ebay I have to pay shipping cost, so these period correct cards are even more expensive...

See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2

A pentium tillamook is in line with your pentium requirement

It requires a pin to be jumpered and around 2v give or take

They pop up on ebay as pentium 1 266 socket 7

Here in a week or two I may be able to run some 5500 bench marks for you at a processor speed of your choosing

Thank you very much. I will play some days with its s3 virge , I wait to see your benchmarks. Thank you very much.
I will measure vcore without jumpers , it is a KM-T5-T1.

Thank you.

here is a pentium 1 266 tillamook that with a mod or two you may be able to get to run in your motherboard. Just search for one like that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Pentium-MMX-26 … &epid=115412347

Also here is this.
Tillamook 266MHz and working L2 cache?

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 18 of 27, by malloc32

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-21, 00:06:
here is a pentium 1 266 tillamook that with a mod or two you may be able to get to run in your motherboard. Just search for one […]
Show full quote
malloc32 wrote on 2021-01-20, 22:34:
Thank you very much. I will play some days with its s3 virge , I wait to see your benchmarks. Thank you very much. I will meas […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-01-20, 20:55:
See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2 […]
Show full quote

See what vcore you get with no jumpers usually 2-2.2

A pentium tillamook is in line with your pentium requirement

It requires a pin to be jumpered and around 2v give or take

They pop up on ebay as pentium 1 266 socket 7

Here in a week or two I may be able to run some 5500 bench marks for you at a processor speed of your choosing

Thank you very much. I will play some days with its s3 virge , I wait to see your benchmarks. Thank you very much.
I will measure vcore without jumpers , it is a KM-T5-T1.

Thank you.

here is a pentium 1 266 tillamook that with a mod or two you may be able to get to run in your motherboard. Just search for one like that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Pentium-MMX-26 … &epid=115412347

Also here is this.
Tillamook 266MHz and working L2 cache?

Out of stock 🙁

I will see if they go on sale again. Also see if the board provides 2V.

Thank you very much.

Reply 19 of 27, by ODwilly

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If your being cheap and it is between a geforce4 or 5 for a P1 system id just buy a Virge or Rage or something. A P1 system just isnt the place for something that new IMHO.

Main pc: Asus ROG 17. R9 5900HX, RTX 3070m, 16gb ddr4 3200, 1tb NVME.
Retro PC: Soyo P4S Dragon, 3gb ddr 266, 120gb Maxtor, Geforce Fx 5950 Ultra, SB Live! 5.1