Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-22, 06:41:

darry wrote on 2021-03-21, 04:19:

Personally, I would not fork 100 Euros to MAYBE get a slight performance increase in a machine that will almost certainly be lim […]
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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-21, 03:35:

I have a 7500 now.

https://www.gpuzoo.com/Compare/ATI_Radeon_750 … TI_Radeon_9000/

Think it’s worth it?

Personally, I would not fork 100 Euros to MAYBE get a slight performance increase in a machine that will almost certainly be limited by the CPU to a point that will make the difference between a 7500 and 9000 very small, in all likelihood.

That said, it's your project and your money . I have been known to pour money into projects and lines of research that apparently interest almost nobody but me, so I am definitely not going to be one to judge if you do decide to go for the 9000, in the interest of your own curiosity , science, posterity and the interest of the people following this thread (myself included) .

I imagine, though, that once this project is finished (in my case, nothing is ever truly finished), you will have another one that will also require financial expenditure. Your finances are none of our business, but assuming that, like for most of us, your disposable income is not unlimited (or at least practically so), it may make more sense to consider putting that 100 Euros towards the next project than towards polishing this one to the extreme . Or maybe not, depending on how committed you are to closing in on absolutes .

Choose wisely . 😉

honestly, I was wondering if a radeon 9000 is faster than a 7500 at all. Benchmarks seem kind of tied at best.

TBH, I did not look at comparative benchmarks . A Radeon 8500 is faster than either a 7500 or a 9000 (the 9000 is a cut-down 8500). The 8500 and 9000 have a DirectX 8 feature set , whereas the the 7500 is DirectX 7 . Benchmarks comparing a 7500 and a 9000 will only showcase software that both chips can run, but anything that requires DirectX 8 hardware features will not run on a 7500 and thus cannot be compared .

darry wrote on 2021-03-22, 15:09:

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-22, 06:41:

darry wrote on 2021-03-21, 04:19:

Personally, I would not fork 100 Euros to MAYBE get a slight performance increase in a machine that will almost certainly be lim […]
Show full quote

Personally, I would not fork 100 Euros to MAYBE get a slight performance increase in a machine that will almost certainly be limited by the CPU to a point that will make the difference between a 7500 and 9000 very small, in all likelihood.

That said, it's your project and your money . I have been known to pour money into projects and lines of research that apparently interest almost nobody but me, so I am definitely not going to be one to judge if you do decide to go for the 9000, in the interest of your own curiosity , science, posterity and the interest of the people following this thread (myself included) .

I imagine, though, that once this project is finished (in my case, nothing is ever truly finished), you will have another one that will also require financial expenditure. Your finances are none of our business, but assuming that, like for most of us, your disposable income is not unlimited (or at least practically so), it may make more sense to consider putting that 100 Euros towards the next project than towards polishing this one to the extreme . Or maybe not, depending on how committed you are to closing in on absolutes .

Choose wisely . 😉

honestly, I was wondering if a radeon 9000 is faster than a 7500 at all. Benchmarks seem kind of tied at best.

TBH, I did not look at comparative benchmarks . A Radeon 8500 is faster than either a 7500 or a 9000 (the 9000 is a cut-down 8500). The 8500 and 9000 have a DirectX 8 feature set , whereas the the 7500 is DirectX 7 . Benchmarks comparing a 7500 and a 9000 will only showcase software that both chips can run, but anything that requires DirectX 8 hardware features will not run on a 7500 and thus cannot be compared .

I’m still trying to find a 8500 or 9100 pci but can’t seem to find one anywhere.

Was gonna try a geforce 7000 series in pci also but can’t seem to find one. Did they ever make it? Same question for x000 series did they ever make a pci x300 or something?

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-22, 17:23:

darry wrote on 2021-03-22, 15:09:

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-22, 06:41:

honestly, I was wondering if a radeon 9000 is faster than a 7500 at all. Benchmarks seem kind of tied at best.

TBH, I did not look at comparative benchmarks . A Radeon 8500 is faster than either a 7500 or a 9000 (the 9000 is a cut-down 8500). The 8500 and 9000 have a DirectX 8 feature set , whereas the the 7500 is DirectX 7 . Benchmarks comparing a 7500 and a 9000 will only showcase software that both chips can run, but anything that requires DirectX 8 hardware features will not run on a 7500 and thus cannot be compared .

I’m still trying to find a 8500 or 9100 pci but can’t seem to find one anywhere.

Was gonna try a geforce 7000 series in pci also but can’t seem to find one. Did they ever make it? Same question for x000 series did they ever make a pci x300 or something?

The x300/x600 are essentially PCI Express versions of the AGP Radeon 9550/9600 . PCI graphics cards were mostly relegated to very low end, utilitarian (multi monitor) or older systems by that time . I don't believe ATI had any PCI based offerings on the market by that generation (other than the Radeon 9000/9250 models based on the previous generation ). Low end Nvidia based solutions continued to be made in PCI for some more years, but as you already know, without Windows 9x driver support.

darry wrote on 2021-03-22, 17:43:

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-22, 17:23:

darry wrote on 2021-03-22, 15:09:

TBH, I did not look at comparative benchmarks . A Radeon 8500 is faster than either a 7500 or a 9000 (the 9000 is a cut-down 8500). The 8500 and 9000 have a DirectX 8 feature set , whereas the the 7500 is DirectX 7 . Benchmarks comparing a 7500 and a 9000 will only showcase software that both chips can run, but anything that requires DirectX 8 hardware features will not run on a 7500 and thus cannot be compared .

I’m still trying to find a 8500 or 9100 pci but can’t seem to find one anywhere.

Was gonna try a geforce 7000 series in pci also but can’t seem to find one. Did they ever make it? Same question for x000 series did they ever make a pci x300 or something?

The x300/x600 are essentially PCI Express versions of the AGP Radeon 9550/9600 . PCI graphics cards were mostly relegated to very low end, utilitarian (multi monitor) or older systems by that time . I don't believe ATI had any PCI based offerings on the market by that generation (other than the Radeon 9000/9250 models based on the previous generation ). Low end Nvidia based solutions continued to be made in PCI for some more years, but as you already know, without Windows 9x driver support.

yeah there where unofficial drivers for the 7000 and 8000 series though the 8000 series drivers seem to be hard to find, though there is mention of them online. my 8400gs won't even post on the 430 boards so I never got that far. the 6200 seems to work in everything except it's buggy with the drivers under x9/ME so a 7000 series is kinda iffy but I'd be willing to give it a shot.

My current AOpen AP53 HX-based motherboard works just fine with Matrox Millennium, Matrox Millennium II, Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) and Trident TGUI9440. These are the only cards I've tried on it.
Back in the day, I used to have an Asus TX97-x which I first ran with an ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ and later on a Matrox Mystique 220.
Dunno if this info is of any use.

LunarG wrote on 2021-03-23, 11:37:

My current AOpen AP53 HX-based motherboard works just fine with Matrox Millennium, Matrox Millennium II, Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) and Trident TGUI9440. These are the only cards I've tried on it.
Back in the day, I used to have an Asus TX97-x which I first ran with an ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ and later on a Matrox Mystique 220.
Dunno if this info is of any use.

win 9x/ME and xp/2k seemed to work okay with all of these?

-Matrox Millennium reported working by LunarG
-Matrox Millennium II reported working by LunarG
-Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) reported working by LunarG
-Trident TGUI9440 reported working by LunarG
-ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ reported working by LunarG
-Matrox Mystique 220 reported working by LunarG

Does this list to be added to OP look correct?

Edit it to add more details if you have them and I will copy and paste it 😀

Just to confirm these are on 430tx/hx boards and pci gfx cards?

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-03-23, 18:34:

win 9x/ME and xp/2k seemed to work okay with all of these? […]
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LunarG wrote on 2021-03-23, 11:37:

My current AOpen AP53 HX-based motherboard works just fine with Matrox Millennium, Matrox Millennium II, Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) and Trident TGUI9440. These are the only cards I've tried on it.
Back in the day, I used to have an Asus TX97-x which I first ran with an ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ and later on a Matrox Mystique 220.
Dunno if this info is of any use.

win 9x/ME and xp/2k seemed to work okay with all of these?

-Matrox Millennium reported working by LunarG
-Matrox Millennium II reported working by LunarG
-Number Nine GXE64 Pro (S3 Vision 964) reported working by LunarG
-Trident TGUI9440 reported working by LunarG
-ExpertColor S3 Trio64V+ reported working by LunarG
-Matrox Mystique 220 reported working by LunarG

Does this list to be added to OP look correct?

Edit it to add more details if you have them and I will copy and paste it 😀

Just to confirm these are on 430tx/hx boards and pci gfx cards?

Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 works fine at least. Can't remember if I tried Windows 98 on any of these setups, since that's a bit too modern for the hardware as far as I'm concerned. Not tried 2000 or XP with these.

going to be testing a quadro nvs 280 and a radeon 9250 soon. someone else has reported the quadro as working.

I still haven't found the perfect card it seems. the radeon 7500 works pretty good in windows ME nut crashes in windows 7
and my 7000 is causing MCE to crash on my dual pentium

There’s also the PowerVR Kyro PCI.

paradigital wrote on 2021-03-26, 10:52:

There’s also the PowerVR Kyro PCI.

This card worked for you on a 430 tx/hx board?

Have any more details I can include? Any issues? Which OS did you test it on. Driver issues?

I'm running a Socket 7 430HX board with a Pentium 200 MMX and EDO RAM and can confirm my PCI 64MB GeForce2 MX200 works just fine with Windows 98SE.

Woody72 wrote on 2021-03-31, 14:27:

I'm running a Socket 7 430HX board with a Pentium 200 MMX and EDO RAM and can confirm my PCI 64MB GeForce2 MX200 works just fine with Windows 98SE.

added 😀

Okay I got two fire mv 2400 cards in the mail and to my surprise they are actually dual gpu. So two gpu per card. There may be crossfire in my k6’s future....

Anyway, the ports are damaged on them though. So may have to order a different one. I’ll see if I can get them working when the cables arrive.

Also up on the test bench will be a quadro 280 and a radeon 9250.

I might have one of the best collections of pci graphics cards here soon 🤣.

Watch out pixel pipes!

Is pixel pipes on the forum?

After i found out that a FX5200 (AXLE) won't work in my Tx3 I purchased a cheap G450 and it does a fine job in my K6-2 system. 👍

GuillermoXT wrote on 2021-04-02, 02:46:

After i found out that a FX5200 (AXLE) won't work in my Tx3 I purchased a cheap G450 and it does a fine job in my K6-2 system. 👍

G450? Woah dual dms 60

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-04-02, 04:02:

GuillermoXT wrote on 2021-04-02, 02:46:

After i found out that a FX5200 (AXLE) won't work in my Tx3 I purchased a cheap G450 and it does a fine job in my K6-2 system. 👍

G450? Woah dual dms 60

Mine should be that one with 32MB

GuillermoXT wrote on 2021-04-02, 04:58:

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-04-02, 04:02:

GuillermoXT wrote on 2021-04-02, 02:46:

After i found out that a FX5200 (AXLE) won't work in my Tx3 I purchased a cheap G450 and it does a fine job in my K6-2 system. 👍

G450? Woah dual dms 60

Mine should be that one with 32MB
202670a.jpg

Wtf.. looks like it’s from 1998 but has a pci express bridge chip? What is this thing?

I can report that the radeon 9250 did not work on the 430tx it caused post to hang

But the fire mv 2400 does work!!! :p will do tests when I get time! It seems to be crashing windows 7... ugh...

Sphere478 wrote on 2021-04-02, 06:22:

Wtf.. looks like it’s from 1998 but has a pci express bridge chip? What is this thing?

Matrox G450 PCI cards have an AGP PCI to PCI bridge chip.

Not AGP, it's PCI-PCI bridge.

Correct. Corrected.