VOGONS


First post, by candle_86

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So one an update Medical bills are no longer an issue, and on that note I've been messing with my 233 MMX system.

I've got options for this system, as its using a Super7 board, my 3 choices are Riva 128 4mb AGP, TNT PCI 16mb or M64 16mb AGP, but which one do yall think works better, the Riva works and it's what's currently in it, but I'm not terribly happy with it's performance even in simple games like Monster Truck Madness and Fury3, or Quake, it just runs slow, would putting in the TNT or M64 help or is it my CPU at fault?

Reply 1 of 12, by mwdmeyer

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Fury3 should be fine on that CPU. It's software so I doubt the upgraded video card would help, maybe there is another issue?

The Riva 128 is more period correct but I would probably use the M64 myself. I had one on my Pentium 133 and it worked well.

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Reply 3 of 12, by dionb

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TNT and M64 have similar performance (slight differences depending on whether core (M64 faster) or memory (TNT faster) is more stressed), both will be faster than the Riva on the same drivers. However with nVidia drivers the usual caveat applies: later drivers are heavier, so the same card will generally be fastest on the oldest stable drivers that support it. With a very CPU-limited system this can be relevant. That would be an argument for the TNT or perhaps even (though unlikely) the Riva.

Bottom line: you have the cards, test it yourself. And make sure to use a different driver per card, otherwise results are a foregone conclusion.

Reply 4 of 12, by The Serpent Rider

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In most cases, TNT2 M64 is faster, due to increased clock speed. Riva 128 is not something you would want to use unironically in any system.

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Reply 5 of 12, by candle_86

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Ok i swapped in the TNT2 M64, and when i did suddenly my Pentium MMX is now unstable, not having a spare chip i grabbed my next slowest socket 7, a K6-3+ which might be a little fast for 95 but lets see how it goes 🤣

Reply 6 of 12, by viper32cm

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I use a Creative-branded TNT PCI with 16MB in my P233MMX. It runs very well with everything I've tried up to Unreal.

I had been considering buying a Riva128 or a Rendition card to replace the TNT for "period accuracy," but based on some of the comments above that doesn't sound like a worthwhile "upgrade."

Realistically, though, there were probably a decent number of folks in the 1998-99 time frame running P233MMXs with TNTs or other cards of the same generation.

Reply 7 of 12, by darry

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viper32cm wrote on 2021-07-10, 04:06:

I use a Creative-branded TNT PCI with 16MB in my P233MMX. It runs very well with everything I've tried up to Unreal.

I had been considering buying a Riva128 or a Rendition card to replace the TNT for "period accuracy," but based on some of the comments above that doesn't sound like a worthwhile "upgrade."

Realistically, though, there were probably a decent number of folks in the 1998-99 time frame running P233MMXs with TNTs or other cards of the same generation.

I could not agree more with your last statement .

At any given point in time, computer enthusiasts had a PC whose parts were from various periods . People upgraded what they needed/wanted to when they cold afford it . Save for money constraints , no enthusiast at the time would intentionally constrain himself/herself to an arbitrary point in time : people upgraded their PCs and eventually replaced them (or upgraded them to the point of being equivalent to replacement ) .

IMHO, the concept of period correctness is perfectly fine to simulate an out-of-box experience at a given specific point in time or for a museum type setup . In the real world, people did not constrain themselves to, for instance, having a PC whose parts are all from 1997 to only play games from 1997 on it . Also, playing demanding games from 1999 on a PC whose parts where all from 1997 was not something that people typically did, or at least wanted to do, unless they had financial constraints . Additionally, people did not stop playing a 1997 game when the year ended (obviously) or when they upgraded hardware later on as taking full advantage of a game at higher resolutions and/or quality levels might only have been possible (at all or at least affordably) on hardware released well after the game launched (not too different from the way things still are today mainly with GPUs) .

So IMHO, period correctness, brings nothing to the table either from the "lets do things like they did back in the day" (people did not care for period correctness when tech was current) point of view or from the "let's get the best performance/experience out of a game" point of view .

So, to conclude, if anyone wants to build a so called period correct system, for whatever reason (and there are probably many valid ones in addition to the ones that I have mentioned above), then great . This is a hobby and people are free to do what they want . We all have our preferences and quirks and not everything needs to be rationally or practically justifiable . However, IMHO, there should be no illusion that period correctness is somehow representative of how computers were used "back then", at least in enthusiast circles .

Sorry for the rather ranty post, but your last statement made so much sense to me that I could not resist sharing my unsolicited opinion . Feel free to disagree with anything I have said or to correct me if I have somehow misinterpreted you .

EDIT : corrected sentence structure

Reply 8 of 12, by viper32cm

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darry wrote on 2021-07-10, 05:00:

Sorry for the rather ranty post, but your last statement made so much sense to me that I could not resist sharing my unsolicited opinion . Feel free to disagree with anything I have said or to correct me if I have somehow misinterpreted you .

I don't disagree at all. You captured what I was saying pretty well.

I was a 12-15 when the first few waves of 3d accelerators came out. In February 1998, I installed a Voodoo Rush in my 1995 vintage Packard Bell P100 (no cache!). Playing Turok, Dark Forces 2, MotoRacer, Longbow FX, and Need for Speed 2: SE with that setup was mind blowing, even though I'm sure the frame rate was likely, actually crap. The Voodoo Rush made it over to the PII-350 that I built for Christmas of 1998 and didn't get replaced until November 1999 when I found a deal on a TNT2. The PII-350 wound up with a GeForce 256 DDR, likely my favorite setup of all time. Lots of good memories with that system in that configuration. I then put the GeForce DDR in the T-bird 1.4 that I took to college in 2001 until I was able to replace it with a GF4 Ti4200 in the spring of 2002.

That's what kids without any money did back then. Upgrade the old, move the best to the new, rinse, repeat.

Reply 9 of 12, by darry

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viper32cm wrote on 2021-07-14, 00:30:
I don't disagree at all. You captured what I was saying pretty well. […]
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darry wrote on 2021-07-10, 05:00:

Sorry for the rather ranty post, but your last statement made so much sense to me that I could not resist sharing my unsolicited opinion . Feel free to disagree with anything I have said or to correct me if I have somehow misinterpreted you .

I don't disagree at all. You captured what I was saying pretty well.

I was a 12-15 when the first few waves of 3d accelerators came out. In February 1998, I installed a Voodoo Rush in my 1995 vintage Packard Bell P100 (no cache!). Playing Turok, Dark Forces 2, MotoRacer, Longbow FX, and Need for Speed 2: SE with that setup was mind blowing, even though I'm sure the frame rate was likely, actually crap. The Voodoo Rush made it over to the PII-350 that I built for Christmas of 1998 and didn't get replaced until November 1999 when I found a deal on a TNT2. The PII-350 wound up with a GeForce 256 DDR, likely my favorite setup of all time. Lots of good memories with that system in that configuration. I then put the GeForce DDR in the T-bird 1.4 that I took to college in 2001 until I was able to replace it with a GF4 Ti4200 in the spring of 2002.

That's what kids without any money did back then. Upgrade the old, move the best to the new, rinse, repeat.

My experience mirrors yours, except I am a bit older than you are. I put a Voodoo 1 in a PC Chips M550 board with a Pentium 166 MMX (started with a 150MHz non MMX in that board) that I still had in 1998, in a case (with bundled PSU) from 1995ish . At that time, I had a Virge 325, an SB16, a GUS PnP, a Quantum Fireball 1.08GB hard drive, a Maxtor 420MB hard drive, a Panasonic CR-563B CD-ROM drive and the Philips brand keyboard from my family's 386 from 1992 .

Ah, the memories!

Reply 10 of 12, by Jasin Natael

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candle_86 wrote on 2021-07-08, 13:29:

Ok i swapped in the TNT2 M64, and when i did suddenly my Pentium MMX is now unstable, not having a spare chip i grabbed my next slowest socket 7, a K6-3+ which might be a little fast for 95 but lets see how it goes 🤣

Am I understanding you when you say your K6-3+ is your next SLOWEST socket 7 PC?

I'm a bit confused as the K6-3+ is not only faster than clock per clock than the Pentium MMX, it is pretty must the fastest socket 7 CPU in IPC period.

Possibly a Tillamook with working caches and a overclocked FSB might contend....maybe.

Reply 12 of 12, by Jasin Natael

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2021-07-16, 04:18:

"Next slowest" means faster

Yeah I don't know how I managed to read that the way I did.

Definitely a "doh!" moment for me. Thanks for clarifying.