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Dual gpu pci cards

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First post, by Sphere478

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I’m kinda itching for a dual gpu for my dual pentium 233 mmx build

I have a dual x600 fire gl card but the connector for the monitor sucks and they are kinda set up like independent gpus not like sli/crossfire which is what I’m kinda wanting.

I know there is the voodoo 5500 but I can’t seem to find a mac one (i want the dvi)

I recently saw a dual rage 128 that I think is doing some kind of crossfire (before crossfire was a thing.) but I only see it in agp

What other options are there other than the 5500 for dvi and dual gpu?

I’m wanting good performance also, a upgrade from the 7500 I’m using now would be handy.

Ideas?

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Reply 1 of 39, by imi

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I don't think there was any other dual gpu for PCI apart from the V5 apart from the literal "two gpus on one card" ones you mentioned... and well some unobtanium obsidian voodoo cards :p

Reply 2 of 39, by Sphere478

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imi wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:21:

I don't think there was any other dual gpu for PCI apart from the V5 apart from the literal "two gpus on one card" ones you mentioned... and well some unobtanium obsidian voodoo cards :p

There is no such thing as crossfire for radeon 7500 using later drivers is there? I know at some point they allowed crossfire without the crossfire bridge and I guess they were doing it with rage 128s…. So???

Maybe using the dual 128 driver modded for 7500 gpus? Would the driver care that it’s in two slots?

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Reply 3 of 39, by darry

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:44:
imi wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:21:

I don't think there was any other dual gpu for PCI apart from the V5 apart from the literal "two gpus on one card" ones you mentioned... and well some unobtanium obsidian voodoo cards :p

There is no such thing as crossfire for radeon 7500 using later drivers is there? I know at some point they allowed crossfire without the crossfire bridge and I guess they were doing it with rage 128s…. So???

Maybe using the dual 128 driver modded for 7500 gpus? Would the driver care that it’s in two slots?

Crossfire started with PCI Express and X800 series cards .

CrossFire was first made available to the public on September 27, 2005.[5] The system required a CrossFire-compliant motherboard with a pair of ATI Radeon PCI Express (PCIe) graphics cards. Radeon x800s, x850s, x1800s and x1900s came in a regular edition, and a "CrossFire Edition" which has "master" capability built into the hardware. "Master" capability is a term used for 5 extra image compositing chips, which combine the output of both cards.[6]

Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_CrossFire

Reply 4 of 39, by Sphere478

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I thought I recalled people making it work on systems that had pcie and agp and other weird combos with cards so long as they were x series or higher🤔 but it’s been a while.

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Reply 5 of 39, by darry

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 02:41:

I thought I recalled people making it work on systems that had pcie and agp and other weird combos with cards so long as they were x series or higher🤔 but it’s been a while.

That may well have been possible .

Hoping to get something similar working with anything earlier than an x series Radeon is, AFAIK, extremely unlikely (optimistically speaking) especially since the earliest implementation of Crossfire required the use of a Crossfire Edition card that had a special compositing chip on board which enabled output from both cards to be merged into one . No earlier cards had such a compositing chip .

EDIT: Corrected typo

Last edited by darry on 2021-12-11, 04:50. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 7 of 39, by darry

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:44:
imi wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:21:

I don't think there was any other dual gpu for PCI apart from the V5 apart from the literal "two gpus on one card" ones you mentioned... and well some unobtanium obsidian voodoo cards :p

There is no such thing as crossfire for radeon 7500 using later drivers is there? I know at some point they allowed crossfire without the crossfire bridge and I guess they were doing it with rage 128s…. So???

Maybe using the dual 128 driver modded for 7500 gpus? Would the driver care that it’s in two slots?

That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates Crossfire by 5-6 years . Expecting the last drivers released for it, in 2000 to

a) work with any other card (Rage Fury Maxx drivers were specific to that card), especially one with a completely different later architecture (Radeon)
b) support the Rage Fury Maxx's alternate frame rendering technology on a chip (Radeon) that likely has no support for it
c) work over bandwidth constrained (133MB/second max total fir the entire bus) legacy PCI, while the Fury Maxx doesn't even use a PCI bridge in its dual-chip implementation (so existing drivers likely aren't designed to work that way).
d) assuming a, b and c are not insurmountable issues, offer an actual performance increase

is very close to wishful thinking, IMHO and respectfully .

* And to illustrate point c) more concretely, consider that a 640x480 output, in 16-bit color (2 bytes per pixel), at 30 frames (theoretically generated by one of the cards and sent to the other) would come to 640x480*2*30 bytes= 18432000 bytes = 17.578125 Megabytes . 32-bit color would double that (or at least add 50%, assuming we don't need the alpha channel data) and 1024x768 at 30 fps in 32-bit color would require up to 90 Megabytes . That is per second . EDIT : That also does not include any data the cards would not to send each other for sync purposes .

Last edited by darry on 2021-12-11, 04:58. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 8 of 39, by Sphere478

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RichB93 wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:15:

A 233 MMX can't saturate a Voodoo2 let alone a dual GPU card.

It’s a dual 233mmx but that aside, I don’t disagree . I’m building for fun not for balance.

darry wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:49:
That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:44:
imi wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:21:

I don't think there was any other dual gpu for PCI apart from the V5 apart from the literal "two gpus on one card" ones you mentioned... and well some unobtanium obsidian voodoo cards :p

There is no such thing as crossfire for radeon 7500 using later drivers is there? I know at some point they allowed crossfire without the crossfire bridge and I guess they were doing it with rage 128s…. So???

Maybe using the dual 128 driver modded for 7500 gpus? Would the driver care that it’s in two slots?

That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates Crossfire by 5-6 years . Expecting the last drivers released for it, in 2000 to

a) work with any other card (Rage Fury Maxx drivers were specific to that card), especially one with a completely different later architecture (Radeon)
b) support the Rage Fury Maxx's alternate frame rendering technology on a chip (Radeon) that likely has no support for it
c) work over bandwidth constrained (133MB/second max total fir the entire bus) legacy PCI, while the Fury Maxx doesn't even use a PCI bridge in its dual-chip implementation (so existing drivers likely aren't designed to work that way).
d) assuming a, b and c are not insurmountable issues, offer an actual performance increase

is very close to wishful thinking, IMHO and respectfully .

* And to illustrate point c) more concretely, consider that a 640x480 output, in 16-bit color (2 bytes per pixel), at 30 frames (theoretically generated by one of the cards and sent to the other) would come to 640x480*2*30 bytes= 18432000 bytes = 17.578125 Megabytes . 32-bit color would double that (or at least add 50%, assuming we don't need the alpha channel data) and 1024x768 at 30 fps in 32-bit color would require up to 90 Megabytes . That is per second .

Makes sense.

So pretty much the 5500 is the only dual gpu that makes any sense?

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Reply 9 of 39, by darry

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:52:
It’s a dual 233mmx but that aside, I don’t disagree . I’m building for fun not for balance. […]
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RichB93 wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:15:

A 233 MMX can't saturate a Voodoo2 let alone a dual GPU card.

It’s a dual 233mmx but that aside, I don’t disagree . I’m building for fun not for balance.

darry wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:49:
That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates […]
Show full quote
Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 00:44:

There is no such thing as crossfire for radeon 7500 using later drivers is there? I know at some point they allowed crossfire without the crossfire bridge and I guess they were doing it with rage 128s…. So???

Maybe using the dual 128 driver modded for 7500 gpus? Would the driver care that it’s in two slots?

That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates Crossfire by 5-6 years . Expecting the last drivers released for it, in 2000 to

a) work with any other card (Rage Fury Maxx drivers were specific to that card), especially one with a completely different later architecture (Radeon)
b) support the Rage Fury Maxx's alternate frame rendering technology on a chip (Radeon) that likely has no support for it
c) work over bandwidth constrained (133MB/second max total fir the entire bus) legacy PCI, while the Fury Maxx doesn't even use a PCI bridge in its dual-chip implementation (so existing drivers likely aren't designed to work that way).
d) assuming a, b and c are not insurmountable issues, offer an actual performance increase

is very close to wishful thinking, IMHO and respectfully .

* And to illustrate point c) more concretely, consider that a 640x480 output, in 16-bit color (2 bytes per pixel), at 30 frames (theoretically generated by one of the cards and sent to the other) would come to 640x480*2*30 bytes= 18432000 bytes = 17.578125 Megabytes . 32-bit color would double that (or at least add 50%, assuming we don't need the alpha channel data) and 1024x768 at 30 fps in 32-bit color would require up to 90 Megabytes . That is per second .

Makes sense.

So pretty much the 5500 is the only dual gpu that makes any sense?

I would say "is possible" instead of "makes sense", if the plan is to use it in a Pentium 233 based system as, at current prices, that's a lot of money to put into a card that likely won't be faster than a Voodoo 2 (might even be slower depending on driver overhead, as Voodoo 5 was meant for much faster systems).

That said, it's your money, your system and your choice, so if you want to mod by putting a modern differential and racing tires/wheels on a Ford model T with a stock engine to see what might happen, nobody's stopping you . It might actually be fun to see what happens . If you do take that path, I hope you'll find another (faster) system to host that Voodoo 5 once you've finished testing . Either, way it's your choice as well.

Above all, have fun .

EDIT : Just a thought, though, it may be cheaper and more interesting to see if you can get an AGP Rage Fury Maxx (or other AGP cards) working in a PCI slot using one of those custom AGP to PCI converters/interposers . No idea if it would work, but you might appreciate the challenge .

Reply 10 of 39, by Sphere478

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darry wrote on 2021-12-11, 05:08:
I would say "is possible" instead of "makes sense", if the plan is to use it in a Pentium 233 based system as, at current price […]
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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:52:
It’s a dual 233mmx but that aside, I don’t disagree . I’m building for fun not for balance. […]
Show full quote
RichB93 wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:15:

A 233 MMX can't saturate a Voodoo2 let alone a dual GPU card.

It’s a dual 233mmx but that aside, I don’t disagree . I’m building for fun not for balance.

darry wrote on 2021-12-11, 04:49:
That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates […]
Show full quote

That dual Rage 128 Pro card was the Rage Fury Maxx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ati-rage … review,156.html and predates Crossfire by 5-6 years . Expecting the last drivers released for it, in 2000 to

a) work with any other card (Rage Fury Maxx drivers were specific to that card), especially one with a completely different later architecture (Radeon)
b) support the Rage Fury Maxx's alternate frame rendering technology on a chip (Radeon) that likely has no support for it
c) work over bandwidth constrained (133MB/second max total fir the entire bus) legacy PCI, while the Fury Maxx doesn't even use a PCI bridge in its dual-chip implementation (so existing drivers likely aren't designed to work that way).
d) assuming a, b and c are not insurmountable issues, offer an actual performance increase

is very close to wishful thinking, IMHO and respectfully .

* And to illustrate point c) more concretely, consider that a 640x480 output, in 16-bit color (2 bytes per pixel), at 30 frames (theoretically generated by one of the cards and sent to the other) would come to 640x480*2*30 bytes= 18432000 bytes = 17.578125 Megabytes . 32-bit color would double that (or at least add 50%, assuming we don't need the alpha channel data) and 1024x768 at 30 fps in 32-bit color would require up to 90 Megabytes . That is per second .

Makes sense.

So pretty much the 5500 is the only dual gpu that makes any sense?

I would say "is possible" instead of "makes sense", if the plan is to use it in a Pentium 233 based system as, at current prices, that's a lot of money to put into a card that likely won't be faster than a Voodoo 2 (might even be slower depending on driver overhead, as Voodoo 5 was meant for much faster systems).

That said, it's your money, your system and your choice, so if you want to mod by putting a modern differential and racing tires/wheels on a Ford model T with a stock engine to see what might happen, nobody's stopping you . It might actually be fun to see what happens . If you do take that path, I hope you'll find another (faster) system to host that Voodoo 5 once you've finished testing . Either, way it's your choice as well.

Above all, have fun .

EDIT : Just a thought, though, it may be cheaper and more interesting to see if you can get an AGP Rage Fury Maxx (or other AGP cards) working in a PCI slot using one of those custom AGP to PCI converters/interposers . No idea if it would work, but you might appreciate the challenge .

I need to get one of those.

AGP to PCI adapters - any PCB designers here willing to make one?

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Reply 11 of 39, by dionb

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Why not go for something more period-correct?

Miro had dual S3 cards like the 22SD Twin, with twin S3 Trio64V chips. Appian had their Jeronimo cards with dual S3 or 3DLabs chips. The Miro cards had two separate PCBs for the two chips.

Particularly as this is more about doing everything dual than actually sensibly optimizing performance (which - let's face it - would not involve dual anything other than SIMMs), I'd say go for a fancy big dual card from 1997.

Reply 12 of 39, by aaronkatrini

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There are plenty dual Gpu cards out there (Matrox, nvidia, radeon, 3dfx, s3...etc) however, that I'm aware, only the Voodoo 5 5500 PCI would be good for your needs, as the other manufacturers made their dual Gpu cards only to be able to handle two monitors at the same time and not to be used in a "SLI" mode.

As per your "Dual GPU", and seeing you're having two MMX CPUs, IMO the best would be a Voodoo SLI combo. It's be most "period correct" and performance wise a Voodoo 5 would be an overkill, let alone the price.

Reply 13 of 39, by misterjones

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I think the only single board/2 GPU cards that would "make sense" on a P233MMX would be one of the Quandum 3D Obsidian joints with either a pair of Voodoo 1, Voodoo Rush, or maybe Voodoo 2 chipsets.

Reply 14 of 39, by Sphere478

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misterjones wrote on 2021-12-15, 05:17:

I think the only single board/2 GPU cards that would "make sense" on a P233MMX would be one of the Quandum 3D Obsidian joints with either a pair of Voodoo 1, Voodoo Rush, or maybe Voodoo 2 chipsets.

Was there a voodoo card that didn’t need a 2d counterpart, that could do sli on two cards and had dvi?

4500?

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Reply 16 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Here is a quad ATI Radeon 9000 PCI card:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-8-Port-COLOGRAP … D-/283620231352

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Reply 17 of 39, by Sphere478

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cyclone3d wrote on 2021-12-17, 01:16:

32mb each? Separate gpus?

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Reply 18 of 39, by cyclone3d

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Sphere478 wrote on 2021-12-17, 02:18:
cyclone3d wrote on 2021-12-17, 01:16:

32mb each? Separate gpus?

Yep. Only found a few pics. Looks to me like it uses the mobility Radeon modules that have the die and the RAM on a small bga board.

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  • Colorgraphic 612518 Xentera GT 8 Graphics Adapter, PCI 256MB 8 Port DVI-I W/8VGA; Processor Type & Speed
    4 x ATi Radeon 9000, Bus Type & Speed PCI, Memory Size & Type 256MB DDR SGRAM, Memory Data Width 128-bit DDR, Supported Resolution 2048 x 1536 Analog Maximum, 1600 x 1200 Digital Maximum, BIOS Flash BIOS, Connectors 4 x DVI, 4 TV-out, 8 x 15-pin D-Sub VGA.

    General Information
    Manufacturer Colorgraphics
    Manufacturer Part Number 612518
    Product Line Xentera GT
    Product Name Xentera GT 8 Graphics Adapter
    Marketing Information We have designed the Xentera GT graphic adapter to meet the current needs of our customers and industry specifications.
    Technical Information
    Device Type Graphics Card
    Processor Type & Speed 4 x ATi Radeon 9000
    Bus Type & Speed PCI
    Memory Size & Type 256MB DDR SGRAM
    Memory Data Width 128-bit DDR
    Supported Resolution
    2048 x 1536 Analog Maximum
    1600 x 1200 Digital Maximum
    BIOS Flash BIOS
    Connectors
    4 x DVI
    4 TV-out
    8 x 15-pin D-Sub VGA
    Interface Type
    Digital
    Analog
    Supported Video Formats
    DVI
    RGB
    Multiple Monitor Support 8
    API Support DirectX
    Platform Supported PC
    Bundled Software
    Mover
    SetArray Software
    Physical Characteristics
    Dimensions 4" Height x 6.5" Width
    Shipping Dimensions 30" Height x 7" Width x 14" Depth
    Shipping Weight 1 lb
    Form Factor Plug-in Card
    System Requirements
    Windows PC, recommended with Intel Pentium III (or higher)
    Available PCI slot
    2 or more VGA monitors
    5 MB minimum free hard disk space
    Minimum of 64MB of system RAM for Windows 98, Me; 128MB for Windows 2000 or XP. 256MB recommended
    Some configurations will require additional memory
    Additional Information
    Support for quad screen TV output in NTSC or PAL
    OS support for Windows 98, Me, 2000 or XP
    MultiScreen video driver support (seamless display across multiple monitors) with XY overlap
    MultiHead independent video driver support on Windows 98, Me, 2000 or XP
    SmartTech System, with SmartBoot, SmartSwitch and SmartSet
    128 Bit VPU with a high performance 3D/2D graphics engine
    Active cooling with a fan and custom heat sink
    Multiple monitor configurations: 8 CRT, 4 CRT + 4 DVI, 4 CRT + 4 TV, 4 DVI + 4 TV
    A-20050822-1082-116-E
    M-20050902-1082-130-E

    *This item is BRAND NEW - not refurbished. It comes with all manufacturer supplied accessories, and full manufacturer's USA warranty.
    Colorgraphic 612518 Xentera GT 8 Graphics Adapter, PCI 256MB 8 Port DVI-I W/8VGA; Processor Type & Speed
    4 x ATi Radeon 9000, Bus Type & Speed PCI, Memory Size & Type 256MB DDR SGRAM, Memory Data Width 128-bit DDR, Supported Resolution 2048 x 1536 Analog Maximum, 1600 x 1200 Digital Maximum, BIOS Flash BIOS, Connectors 4 x DVI, 4 TV-out, 8 x 15-pin D-Sub VGA.

    General Information
    Manufacturer Colorgraphics
    Manufacturer Part Number 612518
    Product Line Xentera GT
    Product Name Xentera GT 8 Graphics Adapter
    Marketing Information We have designed the Xentera GT graphic adapter to meet the current needs of our customers and industry specifications.
    Technical Information
    Device Type Graphics Card
    Processor Type & Speed 4 x ATi Radeon 9000
    Bus Type & Speed PCI
    Memory Size & Type 256MB DDR SGRAM
    Memory Data Width 128-bit DDR
    Supported Resolution
    2048 x 1536 Analog Maximum
    1600 x 1200 Digital Maximum
    BIOS Flash BIOS
    Connectors
    4 x DVI
    4 TV-out
    8 x 15-pin D-Sub VGA
    Interface Type
    Digital
    Analog
    Supported Video Formats
    DVI
    RGB
    Multiple Monitor Support 8
    API Support DirectX
    Platform Supported PC
    Bundled Software
    Mover
    SetArray Software
    Physical Characteristics
    Dimensions 4" Height x 6.5" Width
    Shipping Dimensions 30" Height x 7" Width x 14" Depth
    Shipping Weight 1 lb
    Form Factor Plug-in Card
    System Requirements
    Windows PC, recommended with Intel Pentium III (or higher)
    Available PCI slot
    2 or more VGA monitors
    5 MB minimum free hard disk space
    Minimum of 64MB of system RAM for Windows 98, Me; 128MB for Windows 2000 or XP. 256MB recommended
    Some configurations will require additional memory
    Additional Information
    Support for quad screen TV output in NTSC or PAL
    OS support for Windows 98, Me, 2000 or XP
    MultiScreen video driver support (seamless display across multiple monitors) with XY overlap
    MultiHead independent video driver support on Windows 98, Me, 2000 or XP
    SmartTech System, with SmartBoot, SmartSwitch and SmartSet
    128 Bit VPU with a high performance 3D/2D graphics engine
    Active cooling with a fan and custom heat sink
    Multiple monitor configurations: 8 CRT, 4 CRT + 4 DVI, 4 CRT + 4 TV, 4 DVI + 4 TV

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Reply 19 of 39, by Sphere478

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That card is pretty cool.

I have a dual on order with some cables. And someone sent me a link to some drivers for it. Gonna see how it does. That quad is pretty cool

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