Duffman wrote on 2023-05-23, 15:41:

@antiriad

Try disabling your integrated graphics in BIOS?

I had done this already. My P4SCT Motherboard has a Jumper to disable the onboard Video Card.

What updates, if any, have you installed for 98SE? What about chipset drivers?

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-23, 15:56:

What updates, if any, have you installed for 98SE? What about chipset drivers?

It is WIn98SE with the unofficial SP3 (3.64). I haven't installed any particular chipset drivers but this could be worth investigating.

antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 13:02:

There are 4 "Unknowns" 1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller 2. PCI System Management Bus 3. PCI System Peripheral 4. Unknown […]
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There are 4 "Unknowns"
1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller
2. PCI System Management Bus
3. PCI System Peripheral
4. Unknown Device

Don't know if there is any other usable tool that could look at the device IDs for these unknown ones... Need to know if VEN_10B5&DEV_8112 (your PCIe-to-PCI bridge) was among them.

From what I remember Win9x's Device Manager did not have the ability to see device IDs unlike later ones (such as XP).

You probably need to install chipset drivers (INF files) for Win9x, if they were ever available, considering your board is i875P with 6300ESB (similar to ICH5).

The Unofficial Service Pack can cause all sorts of problems.

The only thing that is needed for 98SE for most installations is:
1. 2004 MS update CD. ISO is available on vogonsdrivers.com and archive.org
2. NUSB (universal USB driver and USB storage support)
3. Chipset drivers.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-23, 16:08:

Don't know if there is any other usable tool that could look at the device IDs for these unknown ones... Need to know if VEN_10B […]
Show full quote

antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 13:02:

There are 4 "Unknowns" 1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller 2. PCI System Management Bus 3. PCI System Peripheral 4. Unknown […]
Show full quote

There are 4 "Unknowns"
1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller
2. PCI System Management Bus
3. PCI System Peripheral
4. Unknown Device

Don't know if there is any other usable tool that could look at the device IDs for these unknown ones... Need to know if VEN_10B5&DEV_8112 (your PCIe-to-PCI bridge) was among them.

From what I remember Win9x's Device Manager did not have the ability to see device IDs unlike later ones (such as XP).

You probably need to install chipset drivers (INF files) for Win9x, if they were ever available, considering your board is i875P with 6300ESB (similar to ICH5).

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(https://archive.org/details/UltimateWindowsDr … p9895me20002003)

I now only get 2 Resource Conflicts
1. Motherboard Resources (one of two)
2. PCI Standard PCI-to-PCI Bridge (one of two)

and the Nvidia Card being only recognized as VGA and getting the Windows Protection error.

you have resource conflicts preventing getting the card recognized. It happened to all my nvidia PCIE video cards I tried in windows 98.

The only way I could fix it was to reduce the memory allocated to AGP aperture. If there are other solutions, I would like to know as well.

Other ideas: Try turning off all ACPI related settings in the bios and toggle the PnP settings. Also try the step 6.5 from this guide : https://www.modlabs.net/articles/installing-w … tel-x58-chipset

antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 18:55:

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(ht […]
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I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(https://archive.org/details/UltimateWindowsDr … p9895me20002003)

I now only get 2 Resource Conflicts
1. Motherboard Resources (one of two)
2. PCI Standard PCI-to-PCI Bridge (one of two)

and the Nvidia Card being only recognized as VGA and getting the Windows Protection error.

The second one is really suspicious. Probably that's your PCIe-to-PCI bridge.

Reducing AGP aperture size does help with memory range related conflicts, but only up to a limited extent. You can try setting it to something as low as possible since you don't use AGP cards.

If you also have IRQ conflicts, try disabling some onboard devices that you don't use in BIOS settings.

@antiriad

From my personal experience, ACPI implementation in windows 98 is exceedingly buggy, to the point where I would say that it could be the cause of your resource conflicts. I would advise turning ACPI off.

Unfortunately, the only way I know of to actually turn off ACPI in windows 98 is to do a fresh install of the OS and use the - setup.exe /p i - switch to force disable it.

antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 18:55:

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(ht […]
Show full quote

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-23, 16:08:

Don't know if there is any other usable tool that could look at the device IDs for these unknown ones... Need to know if VEN_10B […]
Show full quote

antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 13:02:

There are 4 "Unknowns" 1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller 2. PCI System Management Bus 3. PCI System Peripheral 4. Unknown […]
Show full quote

There are 4 "Unknowns"
1. PCI Programable Interrupt Controller
2. PCI System Management Bus
3. PCI System Peripheral
4. Unknown Device

Don't know if there is any other usable tool that could look at the device IDs for these unknown ones... Need to know if VEN_10B5&DEV_8112 (your PCIe-to-PCI bridge) was among them.

From what I remember Win9x's Device Manager did not have the ability to see device IDs unlike later ones (such as XP).

You probably need to install chipset drivers (INF files) for Win9x, if they were ever available, considering your board is i875P with 6300ESB (similar to ICH5).

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(https://archive.org/details/UltimateWindowsDr … p9895me20002003)

I now only get 2 Resource Conflicts
1. Motherboard Resources (one of two)
2. PCI Standard PCI-to-PCI Bridge (one of two)

and the Nvidia Card being only recognized as VGA and getting the Windows Protection error.

Another thing you can try to see if your main bios is at fault is to quick install windows 2000 or XP, check under device manager for resource conflicts. If they are any, the PEX 8112 bridge cannot natively be used for an VGA adapter unless you are able to disable any BIOS memory ranges.

I was able to install an radeon x300 attached to an PEX 8112 pcie to pci bridge under windows 98 on a PCI only g41 motherboard.

But with this same bridge used with an older system would have conflicts the with BIOS and I/O resources ranges and wouldn't let me see the radeon card, the video card worked fine but the drivers could not be installed because of the PCI-to-PCI bridge yellow exalamation symbol under device manager. This was on a intel i810 compaq deskpro so it would of been nice if had work.

Edit;
When i mention BIOS resource conflicts, i mean those generic system pnp devices such as "system board extensions for plug and play bios" turning off acpi would not change anything for the "Standard PCI-to-PCI bridge" as they're still conflicts, i even tried several older motherboard systems and still no dice, Same outcome.

I also didn't relise you were already using XP, darn these grubby little fingers. 🤣

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-24, 00:22:

The second one is really suspicious. Probably that's your PCIe-to-PCI bridge. […]
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antiriad wrote on 2023-05-23, 18:55:

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(ht […]
Show full quote

I installed the Intel Chipset Drivers and also I managed to resolve some of the missing drivers using the Ultimate Driver DVD(https://archive.org/details/UltimateWindowsDr … p9895me20002003)

I now only get 2 Resource Conflicts
1. Motherboard Resources (one of two)
2. PCI Standard PCI-to-PCI Bridge (one of two)

and the Nvidia Card being only recognized as VGA and getting the Windows Protection error.

The second one is really suspicious. Probably that's your PCIe-to-PCI bridge.

Reducing AGP aperture size does help with memory range related conflicts, but only up to a limited extent. You can try setting it to something as low as possible since you don't use AGP cards.

If you also have IRQ conflicts, try disabling some onboard devices that you don't use in BIOS settings.

Unfortunately, the motherboard BIOS doesn't allow for any AGP-related Changes. I turned pretty much everything else off (Serial, LPT, On-Board GPU etc)

Regarding PCI buses, the i875P chipset provides support for PCI expansion slots on the motherboard. It typically includes a primary PCI bus, which is directly connected to the chipset, and one or more secondary PCI buses, which are connected through PCI-to-PCI bridges.

The primary PCI bus connects directly to the Intel i875P chipset and is typically used for critical components like the graphics card or other high-bandwidth devices. The secondary PCI buses are connected to the primary bus through PCI-to-PCI bridges, such as the "PCI Standard PCI-to-PCI Bridge" I mentioned earlier.

The motherboard has 1 AGP, 2 PCI and 3 PCI-X Slots. There could be one bus for the PCIX and one of the PCI slots.

The GPU(with Bridge) is plugged into a PCI Slot and the Sound Blaster Audigy is also on other PCI Slot. There is nothing plugged into the PCI-X Slots.

Duffman wrote on 2023-05-24, 01:39:

@antiriad

From my personal experience, ACPI implementation in windows 98 is exceedingly buggy, to the point where I would say that it could be the cause of your resource conflicts. I would advise turning ACPI off.

Unfortunately, the only way I know of to actually turn off ACPI in windows 98 is to do a fresh install of the OS and use the - setup.exe /p i - switch to force disable it.

Honestly, I didn't get to use Win98 back in the day once XP came out. I believe I used XP for about 10-11 years (2001 to 2012). I skipped Windows 7 since it was somehow based on the Vista crap and I went straight to Windows 8. I think XP was one of the Best OSs I ever used. I don't think I ever stuck to an OS for so long except maybe to the Amiga OS 3.X which still use today.

I really don't want to spend too much of my time with W98. All I really wanted to do is have a P4 Era PC with a GPU that is both supported in XP/98. I didn't have much luck with the Nvidia 7900 and also the same case with the Nvidia 6800. I suspect that the Issue could also be related with the PCIE to PCI Bridge. If I had a AGP cards it would have probably worked fine but I really don't want to spend more money for a Card just to get it working with Win98.

Does that PCI to PCIe adapter have a power plug for PCIe power?

Have you tried it in all the different PCI and PCI-X slots?

Having to have cards in specific slots to get them to work properly was pretty common back in the day.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-23, 00:19:

[*] You have Dell U2410 which is one of the best monitors ever made, nice choice. 😀

I just love this monitor. It has Video 1x Graphics Array (VGA) with 15Khz Support also, 2x Digital Visual Interface - Digital (DVI-D) with HDCP, 1x DisplayPort(DP), 1x Component,1x Composite, 1x High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI)

If it had an S-Video it would have been the greatest.

The only thing I don't like is the Power Consumption (around 75W) and that it might take a few minutes for the screen to brighten up (Warm-up)
Also, it is somehow not as Bright as most modern monitors but the Blacks are absolutely perfect. Ther is no Black glow.

I use it with most of my retro systems and also with my Mister.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-24, 16:00:

Does that PCI to PCIe adapter have a power plug for PCIe power?

Have you tried it in all the different PCI and PCI-X slots?

Having to have cards in specific slots to get them to work properly was pretty common back in the day.

Usually the adapter in this case, which allows a PCIe device to be plugged into PCI slot, does not require external power for its own operation.

However, adapters that do the opposite (allowing PCI devices to be plugged into, say, PCIe x1 slot), usually have external power connectors that needs to be connected.

I don't know which slot OP put the adapter and video card into, but from what I remember, having cards in specific slots will only help if you have issues with IRQ (wrong or conflicting). It won't be of too much help for memory range related issues.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-25, 00:58:

Usually the adapter in this case, which allows a PCIe device to be plugged into PCI slot, does not require external power for it […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-24, 16:00:

Does that PCI to PCIe adapter have a power plug for PCIe power?

Have you tried it in all the different PCI and PCI-X slots?

Having to have cards in specific slots to get them to work properly was pretty common back in the day.

Usually the adapter in this case, which allows a PCIe device to be plugged into PCI slot, does not require external power for its own operation.

However, adapters that do the opposite (allowing PCI devices to be plugged into, say, PCIe x1 slot), usually have external power connectors that needs to be connected.

I don't know which slot OP put the adapter and video card into, but from what I remember, having cards in specific slots will only help if you have issues with IRQ (wrong or conflicting). It won't be of too much help for memory range related issues.

PCIe video cards pull up to 75W from the slot. This requires that adapters that allow you to plug a PCIe card into a PCI slot to have a power plug to get power from the PSU as the PCI cannot provide that much power and bad things would happen to the motherboard if the adapter allowed the card to do that.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-25, 04:16:

PCIe video cards pull up to 75W from the slot. This requires that adapters that allow you to plug a PCIe card into a PCI slot to have a power plug to get power from the PSU as the PCI cannot provide that much power and bad things would happen to the motherboard if the adapter allowed the card to do that.

I think high power video cards usually provide their own power connectors for additional power input. The adapter doesn't need one if it's to plug PCIe cards into PCI slots.

On the other hand, adapters in the opposite direction (plugging PCI cards to PCIe) require an external power input because PCIe lacks +5V which PCI slot needs.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-25, 05:24:

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-25, 04:16:

PCIe video cards pull up to 75W from the slot. This requires that adapters that allow you to plug a PCIe card into a PCI slot to have a power plug to get power from the PSU as the PCI cannot provide that much power and bad things would happen to the motherboard if the adapter allowed the card to do that.

I think high power video cards usually provide their own power connectors for additional power input. The adapter doesn't need one if it's to plug PCIe cards into PCI slots.

On the other hand, adapters in the opposite direction (plugging PCI cards to PCIe) require an external power input because PCIe lacks +5V which PCI slot needs.

That's not how it works at all. PCIe cards all pull power through the PCIe slot. Anything past the 75W limit of the PCIe slot requires an additional power plug or plugs on the PCIe card.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-25, 05:39:

That's not how it works at all. PCIe cards all pull power through the PCIe slot. Anything past the 75W limit of the PCIe slot requires an additional power plug or plugs on the PCIe card.

A card like nVidia 6800 should have its own molex connector for power. A bit of googling suggested that PCI slots can drive ~25W while PCIe slots can drive ~75W as you said.

So one may run into issues with medium power PCIe video cards that draw between 25-75W and without any external power connector. In that case, the adapter would need an external power supply but so far I haven't seen one that provides such.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-05-25, 05:24:

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-05-25, 04:16:

PCIe video cards pull up to 75W from the slot. This requires that adapters that allow you to plug a PCIe card into a PCI slot to have a power plug to get power from the PSU as the PCI cannot provide that much power and bad things would happen to the motherboard if the adapter allowed the card to do that.

I think high power video cards usually provide their own power connectors for additional power input. The adapter doesn't need one if it's to plug PCIe cards into PCI slots.

On the other hand, adapters in the opposite direction (plugging PCI cards to PCIe) require an external power input because PCIe lacks +5V which PCI slot needs.

Correct. The Nvidia 6800 is powered from the PCI Slot but the 7900 has a Power Plug. Usually the card will operate without the power plugged in but it will turn off all Accelerated features and only work as a plain vanilla SVGA.