computergeek92 wrote:

mem /c /p

Did you just type all that....?

There's a trick for that, you know... MEM /C > BLAH.TXT will write the results to blah.txt. And you can put it in a

block to preserve the formatting 😉

computergeek92 wrote:

LOADHIGH=C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001 PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS SET TEMP=C:\DOS […]
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LOADHIGH=C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

Wait, this is weird.

LOADHIGH shouldn't work like that at all. Unlike DEVICEHIGH, there should be a space between LOADHIGH and the command, not an equal sign.

Likewise, I think PATH needs to use the same syntax as TEMP, i.e. SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS .

Finally, C:\DOS isn't a good place to throw your temp files. You should make a folder named C:\TEMP instead.

HunterZ wrote:

soviet conscript wrote:

Does anyone else think its odd memmaker messed up his drive recognition? I've used that program tons of times on more setups then I can remember and never had an issue.

I'm assuming D: is his CD-ROM drive. It's entirely possible that memmaker came up with a configuration that prevented one of the CD-ROM drivers (.sys or mscdex) from loading properly.

good point, never had that happen to me personnaly but yhea. Maybe run memmaker then install cd rom driver? Or if all else fails and you have a second vintage PC lying around try the same steps on it? Perhaps the setup your using right now is especially temper mental.

HunterZ wrote:

It may also be worth checking out FreeDOS. I don't know how good it is at compatibility, but a lot of the stuff is leaner than the original MS-DOS equivalents.

Once you're past the horrible installer and have a working system, it's a vast improvement over MS-DOS. It's leaner on memory out of the box, but can be optimized even further if you spend some time on it. For a good config file example, see the link in my signature. I have 627k free on my P3 box.

I don't think UMBPCI will work on 486/Pentium systems though, so you'll need to find some alternative. The UMBPCI website lists a few, but I think JemmEx would also be a good option.

jwt27 wrote:

HunterZ wrote:

It may also be worth checking out FreeDOS. I don't know how good it is at compatibility, but a lot of the stuff is leaner than the original MS-DOS equivalents.

Once you're past the horrible installer and have a working system, it's a vast improvement over MS-DOS. It's leaner on memory out of the box, but can be optimized even further if you spend some time on it. For a good config file example, see the link in my signature. I have 627k free on my P3 box.

I don't think UMBPCI will work on 486/Pentium systems though, so you'll need to find some alternative. The UMBPCI website lists a few, but I think JemmEx would also be a good option.

though its probably worth pointing out I dont think freedos is 100% compatible. At the very least I remember reading a thread here that a few games dont like the MSCDEX replacment. Though id say the incompatibility rate is probibly pretty low.

soviet conscript wrote:

jwt27 wrote:

HunterZ wrote:

It may also be worth checking out FreeDOS. I don't know how good it is at compatibility, but a lot of the stuff is leaner than the original MS-DOS equivalents.

Once you're past the horrible installer and have a working system, it's a vast improvement over MS-DOS. It's leaner on memory out of the box, but can be optimized even further if you spend some time on it. For a good config file example, see the link in my signature. I have 627k free on my P3 box.

I don't think UMBPCI will work on 486/Pentium systems though, so you'll need to find some alternative. The UMBPCI website lists a few, but I think JemmEx would also be a good option.

though its probably worth pointing out I dont think freedos is 100% compatible. At the very least I remember reading a thread here that a few games dont like the MSCDEX replacment. Though id say the incompatibility rate is probibly pretty low.

SHSUCDX comes with FreeDOS, but that doesn't mean it IS FreeDOS 😉

If any part of FreeDOS causes trouble with some game you can just use the MS-DOS equivalent. I've used FreeDOS for years and only ever seen compatibility problems with UMBPCI/XMGR. If one game won't run with that I just ctrl-alt-del and switch to JemmEx. I may have found one incompatibility in the FreeDOS kernel itself, but it doesn't affect any games as far as I'm concerned.

Jorpho wrote:

Wait, this is weird. […]
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computergeek92 wrote:

LOADHIGH=C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001 PROMPT $p$g PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS SET TEMP=C:\DOS […]
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LOADHIGH=C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD001
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

Wait, this is weird.

LOADHIGH shouldn't work like that at all. Unlike DEVICEHIGH, there should be a space between LOADHIGH and the command, not an equal sign.

Likewise, I think PATH needs to use the same syntax as TEMP, i.e. SET PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS .

Finally, C:\DOS isn't a good place to throw your temp files. You should make a folder named C:\TEMP instead.

You're correct about LOADHIGH, because it is a command. Note that it can also be abbreviated as LH.

However, you are incorrect about PATH. It works both ways because it is implemented as both a command and an environment variable.

Years ago I came upon this dos cd-rom driver http://www.spacequest.net/archives/misc/customsqpc/cdrom.zip it has its own installer, us only something like 32kb and has worked on every cd drive I've ever tried it with. Maybe it will work better for you? It also fits on a 1.44mb floppy unzipped.

badmojo wrote:

Yep just use a smaller cd-rom driver - I use the mitsumi driver but most are smaller than the oak one - then run memmaker, and you'll be golden.

Your games aren't going to sound any good with that though, do you have a sound card? If yes then it might need a TSR too depending on what it is.

Yes I have a Soundblaster 16 Vibra PnP ISA sound card in the Pentium 166MHz Packard bell I'm testing DOS/3.11 on right now. I have the 2 floppy disk drivers for it but I haven't installed them yet. The game i'm loading is playing the test midi and wav good during setup without the driver.

Thank you soviet conscript for the smaller cd driver! I tried it out after reinstalling again and now mem /c /p reads this:

Modules using memory below 1 MB:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
MSDOS 17,309 (17K) 17,309 (17K) 0 (0K)
SETVER 480 (0K) 480 (0K) 0 (0K)
HIMEM 1,168 (1K) 1,168 (1K) 0 (0K)
IFSHLP 3,872 (4K) 3,872 (4K) 0 (0K)
GSCDROM 26,016 (25K) 26,016 (25K) 0 (0K)
COMMAND 2,928 (3K) 2,928 (3K) 0 (0K)
SMARTDRV 29,024 (28K) 29,024 (28K) 0 (0K)
MSCDEX 27,952 (27K) 27,952 (27K) 0 (0K)
Free 545,536 (533K) 545,536 (533K) 0 (0K)

Memory Summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Conventional 654,336 108,800 545,536
Upper 0 0 0
Reserved 0 0 0
Extended (XMS) 66,060,288 2,162,688 63,897,600
---------------- ---------- ---------- ----------
Total memory 66,714,624 2,271,488 64,443,136

Total under 1 MB 654,336 108,800 545,536

Largest executable program size 545,344 (533K)
Largest free upper memory block 0 (0K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

Thank you jwt27 for the MEM /C > _____.TXT command. Makes this a lot easier. 😀

So with 533K as the largest executable program size, Undersea Adventure installed without complaining about not having enough memory. I then clicked on the game icon in Windows 3.11 (since typing c:\sea to play it in DOS - does nothing) and it says I still don't have enough memory to run it. It should've worked, the game needs 520K and I have 533K of free memory... I really don't understand most of these DOS commands. (Noob) How do I correctly edit the lines of my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS so features such as enabling EMM386, DOS=HIGH,UMB, and disabling smartdrv are in place so enough memory can be freed just for playing games and nothing extra? Here is my updated AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS:

AUTOEXEC.BAT:

C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

LH C:\CDROM\MSCDEX /D:MSCD000

CONFIG.SYS:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH
FILES=30
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
STACKS=9,256

LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD000 /v

I'm glad to see your making progress. I always used memmaker to enable EMM386 but I can understand if your hesitant to try it again after having to reinstall last time. You can also free up an easy 1 to 2kb of ram changing Lastdrive to a more reasonable amount like H. You can disable smartdrv by typing REM before it in the command line. Just know a few games may have issues with smartdrv disabled. I think this is mostly an issue when installing. I try to keep mine whenever I can but as other have said its not a must have thing to run. Also, its probably not an issue but I've had Packard bells act wierd on me before. I have one that won't display correctly with a Tseng 4000et video card if the cd drive is hooked up. Have no idea why.

maybe try putting
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF

first thing in your confg file should enable emm386

Also, are you going to the directory the game installed to in dos? For example C:\CD sea then C:\sea\sea

computergeek92 wrote:

How do I correctly edit the lines of my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS so features such as enabling EMM386, DOS=HIGH,UMB, and disab […]
Show full quote

How do I correctly edit the lines of my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS so features such as enabling EMM386, DOS=HIGH,UMB, and disabling smartdrv are in place so enough memory can be freed just for playing games and nothing extra? Here is my updated AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS:

AUTOEXEC.BAT:

C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE /X
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $p$g
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS

LH C:\CDROM\MSCDEX /D:MSCD000

CONFIG.SYS:

DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DOS=HIGH
FILES=30
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
STACKS=9,256

LASTDRIVE=Z
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD000 /v

Try this for config.sys:

1DOS=HIGH,UMB
2DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
3DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B000-B7FF
4DEVICEHIGH=yourcdromdriverifyouneedone(whateverthatis).sys

And autoexec.bat:

1LH C:\CDROM\MSCDEX /D:MSCD000
2LH C:\pathtosmartdrv\SMARTDRV

...plus anything else you need. I've found that IFSHLP.SYS is not useful unless you're trying to run Win9x from your DOS prompt, but I strongly suggest using a clean boot for Win9x instead or else you will have other problems. You can set up menus via config.sys and autoexec.bat options to load different stuff for different configurations; I used to do this to have a DOS-optimized setup and a Win9x-optimized one, and it would even end up at either a DOS prompt or Win9x because you can load Win9x manually by disabling auto-boot and running win.com from autoexec.bat.

Also, I just came across this page that explains a lot of things: http://madsenworld.dk/con_auto/index-uk.htm

Edit: Forgot about HIGHSCAN. You should definitely give it a try.

computergeek92 wrote:

So with 533K as the largest executable program size

To be quite clear, this is a very low amount of free conventional memory and having much more than that is routine.

I then clicked on the game icon in Windows 3.11 (since typing c:\sea to play it in DOS - does nothing)

Many, many DOS programs do not run very well when executed from within Windows 3.11.

(Noob) How do I correctly edit the lines of my AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS so features such as enabling EMM386, DOS=HIGH,UMB, and disabling smartdrv are in place so enough memory can be freed just for playing games and nothing extra?

There are a million bazillion guides out there that document the optimization of these things in excruciating detail, and they're not especially hard to find, y'know. I like Computer Hope. MDGX is pretty cool as well, but it's a bit disorganized and hard to follow.

I wonder if he's still struggling with memory problems, as this was exactly my case back then (and the reason I registered here in the first place). But thanks to the good lads here (mostly Jorpho), I have exactly zero problems regarding DOS memory managment and games. I will suggest the same thing Jorpho suggested me way back in April - having a boot menu with different options, and using HIMEMX/JEMM/leightweight CD-ROM driver as an alternative. Here's my default configuration:

1CONFIG.SYS:
2
3[common]
4NUMLOCK=OFF
5DOS=HIGH,UMB                
6FILES=50
7FCBS=1,0
8BUFFERS=10,0
9LASTDRIVE=J
10STACKS=9,256
11COUNTRY=048,852,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\country.sys
12(...)
13[dos]
14DEVICE=C:\DOSDRV\HIMEMX.EXE
15DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSDRV\JEMM\JEMM386.EXE
16DEVICEHIGH /L:1 =C:\DOSDRV\Xgcdrom.sys /D:MSCD001
17DEVICEHIGH /L:1 =C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\display.sys con=(ega,,1)

1AUTOEXEC.BAT:
2
3MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((852) C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\EGA.CPI)
4MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=852
5KEYB PL,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\KEYBRD4.SYS
6SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T4
7SET PATH=C:\;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32;C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM
8GOTO %CONFIG%
9(...)
10:DOS
11LOADHIGH /L:2 =C:\DOSDRV\CTMOUSE.EXE
12LOADHIGH /L:2 =C:\DOSDRV\SHCDX33F.COM /D:MSCD001
13c:\progra~1\yamaha\yamaha~1\SETUPSA.EXE /S
14GOTO END

The following configuration leaves a total of 608 KB free conventional memory, which is more than enough for the DOS games. Of course some gimmicky games (Ultima VII etc.) will refuse to run on a HIMEMX/JEMM/both of them, so I'm also keeping a HIMEM/EMM and HIMEM only boot choices. For comparison - the exact same config, but with HIMEM/EMM instead of X/J leaves me with only 564 KB of free conventional memory.

Yay. 😀 Since you're using JEMM, did you try the special XCDROM32 driver included with it?

(The primary disadvantage to JEMM – which I don't think is really stated clearly enough – is that the author doesn't care about making it compatible with Windows, unlike EMM386.)

Optimizing memory below 640k was one of the banes of getting games to work in DOS, no matter what version. It's best done manually once you know what you are doing. You'll have to read up on all these commands and what they do, and get a fundamental understanding about 640k, the 384k above that, and then the memory above 1mb and why they are different and are set up differently.

Once you know all this, you'll know exactly what you need to do to make a particular game happy. Good luck!

Oh, and if you want to know why the game wouldn't run in DOS under Windows, run mem /c/p in that prompt. 😉

I've been studying up and have managed to free exactly 600K for largest executible program size in Dos! But I'm wondering for those lines that enable emm386 and himem, can I enable them both in Dos and Windows by doing this in my config.sys file?

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF

Also, what is FILES=30 and STACKS=9,256 in the config file
and if I went for a Dos CD driver lighter than 35k, will I need to reinstall
all the games I used with the previous CD driver?

I just read on a website regarding "Out of Hunk" errors:

"actually with the files and buffers settings, you should actually only have about files=30 UNLESS you are running Windows (3.1 or 9x), in which case you should have files=50 at least

Freeing up files frees up extra xms which should solve some problems

Also, games that were after KQ4 will probably need at least a Pentium to run properly anyway, as all Sierra games seem to have gotten lots better after kq4."

So setting Files to 50 should cause no problems when I use my retro PC for equally playing games inside Dos and Win 3.11?

EDIT::: I just tried setting Files to 50 (instead of 30) and I got 1k less free ram...

Next question: How do I make DOS run in upper memory, instead of being in the high memory which it now rests?
I want to free even more conventional memory.

computergeek92 wrote:

I've been studying up and have managed to free exactly 600K for largest executible program size in Dos! But I'm wondering for those lines that enable emm386 and himem, can I enable them both in Dos and Windows by doing this in my config.sys file?

I'm not sure exactly what that will do, but probably the second instance of HIMEM and EMM386 will merely return a message stating that HIMEM and EMM386 are already loaded. I think the versions are identical and there is definitely nothing to be gained by loading them both.

Also, what is FILES=30 and STACKS=9,256 in the config file

Again, there are many places online where you can read about these things.

and if I went for a Dos CD driver lighter than 35k, will I need to reinstall all the games I used with the previous CD driver?

No. No program should even be able to tell which CD driver you have loaded.

computergeek92 wrote:

Next question: How do I make DOS run in upper memory, instead of being in the high memory which it now rests?

That's what DOS=HIGH,UMB does. Perhaps you should post whatever config.sys and autoexec.bat you are currently using? The output of "mem /c" would help too.

If you're loading EMM386 and "mem" still says you have no upper memory, you might just have a virus. Someone was posting about that again just recently.

computergeek92 wrote:

I've been studying up and have managed to free exactly 600K for largest executible program size in Dos! But I'm wondering for t […]
Show full quote

I've been studying up and have managed to free exactly 600K for largest executible program size in Dos! But I'm wondering for those lines that enable emm386 and himem, can I enable them both in Dos and Windows by doing this in my config.sys file?

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF

Also, what is FILES=30 and STACKS=9,256 in the config file
and if I went for a Dos CD driver lighter than 35k, will I need to reinstall
all the games I used with the previous CD driver?

I wouldn't do that as it would try to load them twice. Pick either the version in DOS or Windows. You can mix and match, but generally the higher version ones were better.

Files is the maximum number of open file handles. Stacks specifies the same thing for the system stack (never usually a problem unless a game crashes).