bobsmith wrote on 2023-01-03, 23:19:

Would recommend adding The Sims 2, you just need to add DXVK (the 32-bit binary) to the EXE directory of either the base game or the newest EP installed (whatever EXE you start the game from, for instance on the complete collection this is Sims2EP9.exe), this is to fix the bug with pink fuzz appearing on the screen and shadows rendering incorrectly. It's also recommended to use the Graphics Rules Maker so the game can recognize video cards released after 2008, allow VSync on AMD Radeon cards and allow the game to run at higher quality graphics settings on Intel integrated graphics (These 2 fixes should probably apply to SimCity 4 but I have not tested that).

This works for retail DVD releases and the Origin release

I got the dvd back from my collection. i will see how it turns up with dxvk

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-01-08, 20:41:

It was initially filled up, but I left it blank because there were some issues with GDI on Windows. i guess I should update them […]
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Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-08, 18:24:

What does white lists on the compatibility chart mean? Or is that too racist to ask on here? 🤷‍♂️ It shows Carmen Sandiego 1996 on a white category with no info.

It was initially filled up, but I left it blank because there were some issues with GDI on Windows. i guess I should update them with whatever I have

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-08, 18:57:

myne wrote on 2022-08-09, 06:31:

Not really. They keep breaking things. Even full directx games from 95 broke by xp. Eg mechwarrior 2.

It's because XP got rid of the NT Kernel which had strong ties to DOS. MS was eyeing 64 bit back then actually as the very first 64 bit machines came out in 2002ish. There actually WAS a 64 bit Windows XP and like Vista there were no or few drivers so people had to toss out their old devices that wouldn't work which lead to 7 and the current hot mess of today. The 16 to 32 bit transition wasn't anywhere near as bad I wish they had used that as an example.

Windows XP uses NT Kernel. You are confusing it with the 9x kernel, which instead had strong ties to DOS.

That's what I mean to say but it came out wrong but points still stand.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-08, 19:24:

What ? This is not what happened at all...

I got the kernels backwards that's all but the point still stands that MS effed up during the process more then during the 16 to 32 bit transition of Win 3.1 to Win 95. I was there at the time and know what I saw.

The NT Kernel is a whole different beast than the DOS based kernel of any 9x OS.

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 12:01:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-08, 19:24:

What ? This is not what happened at all...

I got the kernels backwards that's all but the point still stands that MS effed up during the process more then during the 16 to 32 bit transition of Win 3.1 to Win 95. I was there at the time and know what I saw.

Not really, no. XP was highly compatible with any Windows 9X Win32 and Win16 apps, and was supported for 14 years.

I know what I saw.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-09, 13:30:

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 12:01:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-08, 19:24:

What ? This is not what happened at all...

I got the kernels backwards that's all but the point still stands that MS effed up during the process more then during the 16 to 32 bit transition of Win 3.1 to Win 95. I was there at the time and know what I saw.

Not really, no. XP was highly compatible with any Windows 9X Win32 and Win16 apps, and was supported for 14 years.

I know what I saw.

I still have some kids programs that are wonky with XP for example the Carmen Sandiego World 1996 (the one where the characters walk around) runs very glitchy on XP even with compatible mode checked. For example the game plays but none of the quicktime videos will show despite QT installed where as if you do the 1999 Learning Company remake it all works fine. Same with Land Before Time Activity Center where Bramble Maze you have zero control input it goes diagonally instead of up/down left and right with no real way to control it. No problem on 9X and PCEM will happily accept it. The other activities besides Bramble Maze work just not that one.

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-09, 13:30:

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 12:01:

xcomcmdr wrote on 2023-01-08, 19:24:

What ? This is not what happened at all...

I got the kernels backwards that's all but the point still stands that MS effed up during the process more then during the 16 to 32 bit transition of Win 3.1 to Win 95. I was there at the time and know what I saw.

Not really, no. XP was highly compatible with any Windows 9X Win32 and Win16 apps, and was supported for 14 years.

I know what I saw.

Again same with Zoombinis where as Zoombinis 32 (1st game) runs but the 2nd one will say 'Unable to Set Video Mode'https://www.neoseeker.com/forums/13571/t14646 … play-zoombinis/ and this also affects virtual machines IE: Vmware doesn't have 24 bit color to run this but Virtualbox does so this message doesn't appear when running the game. Yet when you do what the thread says about disabling the Direct 3D thing then the pinball level is glitchy where the boat doesn't move and all the weird creatures will pile onto the same boat.

Here is the solution on that thread for the game:
What worked for me with my Windows XP machine, is I did Start>Run then typed in dxdiag. When that came up I clicked on the Display tab and clicked the Disable button for the DirectDraw Acceleration. I exited and I rebooted my machine (not sure if that is necessary), then I ALSO had to right click the game icon on my desktop and set the compatibility to Windows 2000 (I tried Win95 and Win98 but the sound didn't work right for those settings, and I did not try the WinNT so I don't know if that would have been okay or not).

For me however unlike that guy it didn't mess any sound up but as I said the pinball level won't be completable which is the very last level.

Another game is Sim Copter which will run too fast and crash after a few minutes. Running it on Computability mode for Win 95/98 didn't change anything so yeah several games have hiccups on XP which is why we avoided it back then for as long as possible till SP3 came which while didn't fix those games made the OS as a whole more stable for the average user and much better driver support in general.

Again 64 bit XP briefly came out which is when MS was eying a very different future but most people didn't have that edition of XP. I don't know a single one.

Sim copter, streets sim city, and the other sim city 2000 based Maxis games work perfectly on my son's socket A Athlon system perfectly. What are the specs of your XP system your CPU might be to fast or something along those lines.

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 13:50:

Another game is Sim Copter which will run too fast and crash after a few minutes. Running it on Computability mode for Win 95/98 didn't change anything so yeah several games have hiccups on XP which is why we avoided it back then for as long as possible till SP3 came which while didn't fix those games made the OS as a whole more stable for the average user and much better driver support in general.

Again 64 bit XP briefly came out which is when MS was eying a very different future but most people didn't have that edition of XP. I don't know a single one.

Sim Copter is a train wreck of a program. No MS API is used the right way by this piece of hot garbage.

MS brings compatibility to Windows. Not madness.

Common, now...

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 13:50:

Again 64 bit XP briefly came out which is when MS was eying a very different future but most people didn't have that edition of XP. I don't know a single one.

64bit XP was released primarily for developers and business users that required 64bit on the desktop. It worked well since it was 2003 with an XP theme.
I used 2003 as my desktop since I was not an XP fan and didn't see a need to switch to XP 64bit since 2003 64bit worked fine and it was the same OS.

https://news.microsoft.com/2003/03/28/microso … -manufacturing/
Here is the release for the itanium version (not the x64) version

There was no very different future. 64bit had already existed for some time, MS supported it previously (NT4 Alpha, 2003 64bit) and was continuing to support it and still supports it to this day.

64-bit XP was rough for the early lack of drivers and software firewalls available in 2005 (this got better later in 2007), but it definitely did have some gamer marketing weight towards it (UT2004 64-bit, FarCry 64-bit)

SimCopter was a big technical goof from Maxis, probably their first major slip-up, followed by the similarly frail Streets of Simcity. CPU speed are the main grief to these two. IIRC Streets of Simcity in glide mode had an internal frame cap to keep the game stable - in 1997, they knew.

Probably the best way to play these is wait until someone decides to reverse engineer or just make a new port of these games shedded away of their technical debt of duct tape so they're properly playable (for the first time ever).

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 12:00:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-01-08, 20:41:

It was initially filled up, but I left it blank because there were some issues with GDI on Windows. i guess I should update them […]
Show full quote

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-08, 18:24:

What does white lists on the compatibility chart mean? Or is that too racist to ask on here? 🤷‍♂️ It shows Carmen Sandiego 1996 on a white category with no info.

It was initially filled up, but I left it blank because there were some issues with GDI on Windows. i guess I should update them with whatever I have

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-08, 18:57:

It's because XP got rid of the NT Kernel which had strong ties to DOS. MS was eyeing 64 bit back then actually as the very first 64 bit machines came out in 2002ish. There actually WAS a 64 bit Windows XP and like Vista there were no or few drivers so people had to toss out their old devices that wouldn't work which lead to 7 and the current hot mess of today. The 16 to 32 bit transition wasn't anywhere near as bad I wish they had used that as an example.

Windows XP uses NT Kernel. You are confusing it with the 9x kernel, which instead had strong ties to DOS.

That's what I mean to say but it came out wrong but points still stand.

Against all the talks going here, I have updated the section for Carmen Sandiego. I tested with version 3.5.3. As written in the section, you'll have to use DxWnd, use the profile mentioned there and link CSUSA.exe (it will prompt if you don't hook it). The only problem was the starting videos stop working and I will see to it, but instead the in-game videos are taken care of and now work.l

Mister98XPee wrote on 2023-01-09, 13:44:

I still have some kids programs that are wonky with XP for example the Carmen Sandiego World 1996 (the one where the characters walk around) runs very glitchy on XP even with compatible mode checked. For example the game plays but none of the quicktime videos will show despite QT installed where as if you do the 1999 Learning Company remake it all works fine. Same with Land Before Time Activity Center where Bramble Maze you have zero control input it goes diagonally instead of up/down left and right with no real way to control it. No problem on 9X and PCEM will happily accept it. The other activities besides Bramble Maze work just not that one.

MS dealt with many of they problems in compatibility modes, not the problems that driver developers faced during development. Also I don't remember of any significant shim that those compat modes have for GDI, that the game uses.

Compat mode is not magic. In a few years, wrapper development started quite rapidly and they are a key part of having these games work fine. It is also a massive part of what I write in this thread, making sure to achieve a greater compatibility while retaining the original quality.

Older games having issues on Windows XP on modern hardware or in a VM, doesn't automatically mean it's an OS issue.

A lot of reasons could be the cause; hardware incompatibility, driver issues, or even game bugs that do not affect 9x but manifest on XP. Although XP does genuinely have issues with certain older games, unless you've tested yours on period correct (or known compatible) hardware, you cannot state for certain that XP is at fault.

eddman wrote on 2023-01-10, 11:46:

Older games having issues on Windows XP on modern hardware or in a VM, doesn't automatically mean it's an OS issue.

A lot of reasons could be the cause; hardware incompatibility, driver issues, or even game bugs that do not affect 9x but manifest on XP. Although XP does genuinely have issues with certain older games, unless you've tested yours on period correct (or known compatible) hardware, you cannot state for certain that XP is at fault.

If you are answering to the purpose of the thread, you should note that:

1. I am not trying to prove that Windows XP is itself bad, in fact that is not the target of the thread.
2. Even though I tested a lot of the titles on Windows XP, I can't say with certainty that my results will match most others and thus I omitted adding it in the title.
3. Windows XP period is vast (2001-2008 at least). Many of the components required won't even run there and that's another reason why I didn't add it in the title.
4. Hardware incompatibility exists a lot and here I try to provide some (if not all) common measures to look into to run that program.
5. I am not testing 3D audio yet, since its emulation is in a very nascent stage.
6. Driver issues were prominent with old games a lot with Nvidia before 2017. Not sure about AMD. Since Windows XP will most likely have a driver before 2017-2018 (at least for its core components), I have gone with the latest one.
7. Titles with bugs manifesting on XP haven't been tried yet (as far as I remember), since most likely a 3rd patch is out (such as Lemmings Revolution or Heretic II).

Titles utilizing Microsoft Direct3D Mono (Ramp) device are broken on Windows 10 1809 and any later versions of Windows. Get any d3dim.dll older than the one used in Win10 1809 and later and paste that file in that applications' directory. Personally I tested the d3dim.dll file provided in Windows 10 1803 and it worked fine till now.

The file in Windows 10 1803 is version 10.0.17134.1. Older versions of the file should work.

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-01-17, 05:50:

If you are answering to the purpose of the thread...

My post was a response to mister98's questionable blanket statements regarding XP.

eddman wrote on 2023-01-10, 11:46:

Older games having issues on Windows XP on modern hardware or in a VM, doesn't automatically mean it's an OS issue.

A lot of reasons could be the cause; hardware incompatibility, driver issues, or even game bugs that do not affect 9x but manifest on XP. Although XP does genuinely have issues with certain older games, unless you've tested yours on period correct (or known compatible) hardware, you cannot state for certain that XP is at fault.

I have on both a Dell Optiplex 760 and on my Dell Latitude 820 laptop the same problems persist. Land Before Time will load but the bramble maze game the controls are all sideways and you can't really go very far before they lock up. Carmen Sandiego 1996 will work but no video shows so you hear the Chief speak but not see her. The 1999 Learning Company remake however works fine. Zoombini's Mountain Rescue won't work without 24 bit color mode which neither have. You have to disable direct in the Dx Diagnostics which causes the pinball level to be broken literally the very last puzzle!

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2023-01-17, 05:50:

If you are answering to the purpose of the thread, you should note that: […]
Show full quote

eddman wrote on 2023-01-10, 11:46:

Older games having issues on Windows XP on modern hardware or in a VM, doesn't automatically mean it's an OS issue.

A lot of reasons could be the cause; hardware incompatibility, driver issues, or even game bugs that do not affect 9x but manifest on XP. Although XP does genuinely have issues with certain older games, unless you've tested yours on period correct (or known compatible) hardware, you cannot state for certain that XP is at fault.

If you are answering to the purpose of the thread, you should note that:

1. I am not trying to prove that Windows XP is itself bad, in fact that is not the target of the thread.
2. Even though I tested a lot of the titles on Windows XP, I can't say with certainty that my results will match most others and thus I omitted adding it in the title.
3. Windows XP period is vast (2001-2008 at least). Many of the components required won't even run there and that's another reason why I didn't add it in the title.
4. Hardware incompatibility exists a lot and here I try to provide some (if not all) common measures to look into to run that program.
5. I am not testing 3D audio yet, since its emulation is in a very nascent stage.
6. Driver issues were prominent with old games a lot with Nvidia before 2017. Not sure about AMD. Since Windows XP will most likely have a driver before 2017-2018 (at least for its core components), I have gone with the latest one.
7. Titles with bugs manifesting on XP haven't been tried yet (as far as I remember), since most likely a 3rd patch is out (such as Lemmings Revolution or Heretic II).

Glad I'm not the only one to notice 'issues' with certain Win 98 games. People think I'm crazy for ever DARE criticing MS. A lot of people avoided XP until SP3 because of the bugs it had then XP actually had a decent future but still really wasn't the OS for the old 9X games but great for period games.

leileilol wrote on 2023-01-09, 16:42:

64-bit XP was rough for the early lack of drivers and software firewalls available in 2005 (this got better later in 2007), but it definitely did have some gamer marketing weight towards it (UT2004 64-bit, FarCry 64-bit)

SimCopter was a big technical goof from Maxis, probably their first major slip-up, followed by the similarly frail Streets of Simcity. CPU speed are the main grief to these two. IIRC Streets of Simcity in glide mode had an internal frame cap to keep the game stable - in 1997, they knew.

Probably the best way to play these is wait until someone decides to reverse engineer or just make a new port of these games shedded away of their technical debt of duct tape so they're properly playable (for the first time ever).

That game sure had a lot of em! If you bring a patient to the hospital and get your reward money if you stick around you will see they just 'leave' him there to die. A VERY reassuring hospital.