https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/F.E.A.R.#Low_frame_rate

ATC wrote on 2021-01-30, 11:55:

Last time I played FEAR was on Windows 7 with Nvidia 337.88 driver. It provided the sort of experience I'm used to with FEAR: al […]
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Last time I played FEAR was on Windows 7 with Nvidia 337.88 driver. It provided the sort of experience I'm used to with FEAR: almost perfectly smooth gameplay at a 120FPS V-Synced. The only hitches were in a select few "known" trouble spots where there would always be a tiny hitch when you panned the view past them regardless of performance. This used to be one of the smoothest engines I knew.

Now I try to play the game on Windows 10 with modern Nvidia drivers and there is constant, random hitching happening everywhere. I replicated my old in-game settings exactly and my Nvidia settings as close as possible. Same GPU, more than enough GPU and CPU headroom to maintain a constant 120FPS. It's not a performance issue, just some frametime spikes. In the past I've had this sort of issue in games like Skyrim and UT3, and it was remedied by tweaking the "maximum pre-rendered frames" setting (aka "low latency mode" in modern driers). With 337.88 on Win7 I used pre-rendered frames 1 for FEAR, but none of the Nvidia options give me a smooth experience now.

I'm not sure if this is Windows 10 or Nvidia's doing, but the hitching is driving me mad, especially compared to UT2004 and Far Cry which I have both running at 120FPS V-Synced with flawlessly smooth motion.

Has anyone else experienced this or have any ideas what I can try?

As ZellSF mentioned, the first fix works for me from the link.

ZellSF wrote on 2021-01-30, 14:20:

https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/F.E.A.R.#Low_frame_rate

Discrete_BOB_058 wrote on 2021-01-30, 17:11:

As ZellSF mentioned, the first fix works for me from the link.

Nope, this is a completely different issue. Somehow I've been blessed enough to have never experienced that one. I retested that fix just to be sure and it makes no difference.

My issue is more like a microstutter than a framerate drop. The hitches do correlate with movement on the framerate counter (FRAPS), but it's only plus or minus 1-2FPS from the 120FPS V-Sync cap.

Try dgVoodoo.

get MSI afterburner and cap the game at something like 0.007 FPS below your refresh rate in RTSS.

auron wrote on 2021-01-31, 18:29:

get MSI afterburner and cap the game at something like 0.007 FPS below your refresh rate in RTSS.

Thanks, that seems to have resolved the issue, at least from what I've tested so far.

Have any idea how/why it works?

ATC wrote on 2021-02-02, 12:28:

auron wrote on 2021-01-31, 18:29:

get MSI afterburner and cap the game at something like 0.007 FPS below your refresh rate in RTSS.

Thanks, that seems to have resolved the issue, at least from what I've tested so far.

Have any idea how/why it works?

Probably something wrong with the game’s v-sync implementation.

Ehhh, never had much success with the FPS cap tricks just below the refresh rate and what not.

Better install RTSS and learn how to properly use and calibrate the scanline-sync feature there. Read guides on their forum and supplied manual. Spend the time to bind keyboard shortcuts for moving the final tearline out of view directly in-game.

Many gamers don't even know about this, yet it is an extremely good feature. Personally use it in every game I can. When it works it's as smooth as vsync but without almost no additional input lag.

You need Windows 7+ for this btw. Works in most games. Buggy with Nvidia DSR together. Works best when your GPU does not have to push hard (=has some free performance headroom).

If you will continue having this issue I can try F.E.A.R. myself, just ask.

Some games can be very tricky if not impossible (I am looking at you, NFSHP2, how did you even make it to market?!).

For example the only way to make Mafia smooth on Windows XP (where scanline-sync is not supported) is to not only activate (the infamous) vsync but also make a custom resolution with precisely 62Hz refresh rate. This is because the engine runs at 62.5 FPS (=1000/16). Except it doesn't -> it fluctuates a lot around this number. But on Windows 7 you would install community mod to unlock FPS (which does not work in WinXP) so the engine then runs at a much higher FPS than your monitor's refresh rate (making any previous fluctuations a non-issue) and then apply scanline-sync to smooth it all out.

duga3 wrote on 2021-02-03, 21:23:

For example the only way to make Mafia smooth on Windows XP (where scanline-sync is not supported) is to not only activate (the infamous) vsync but also make a custom resolution with precisely 62Hz refresh rate. This is because the engine runs at 62.5 FPS (=1000/16). Except it doesn't -> it fluctuates a lot around this number. But on Windows 7 you would install community mod to unlock FPS (which does not work in WinXP) so the engine then runs at a much higher FPS than your monitor's refresh rate (making any previous fluctuations a non-issue) and then apply scanline-sync to smooth it all out.

This is why G-Sync and FreeSync is such a fantastic thing. Doom 3 is the exact same way, where it runs at 62.5 FPS. Completely smooth with G-Sync, stuttery as hell at just 60 Hz. Mafia could be fixed on Windows 10 without modding (if it's the way you say, never played it myself) by just capping with Rivatuner to 62.5 FPS and having your monitor sync to that. Same thing with Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas (just a 64 FPS cap instead of 62.5).

For most games, I cap to 162 FPS (my refresh rate is 165 Hz) with G-Sync on with v-sync forced on in the NVCP to have no input lag and have no screen tearing. Works great.

well, the -0.007 cap has worked so well for me over the last years that i have not yet bothered to look into scanline sync, even though i've been meaning to - and that's at 60hz, where the issue is exacerbated compared to higher refresh rates. for instance it even fixes the otherwise completely broken gta 2 PC port where the internal limiter runs at a fluctuating 25 FPS otherwise, and limiting is mandatory because game speed breaks at higher FPS. mirrors edge catalyst is another example where the internal limiter delivers horrible frametimes. it even cuts down on input lag compared to regular vsync, which to my understanding is due to eliminating unnecessarily queued up frames.

i realize that it's not supposed to be a 100% perfect solution, but using it i usually can't make out any stutter in 60hz motion, which more than just a slight improvement over the garbage FPS limiting that's going on in most PC games nowadays.

MrEWhite wrote on 2021-02-03, 22:12:

duga3 wrote on 2021-02-03, 21:23:

For example the only way to make Mafia smooth on Windows XP (where scanline-sync is not supported) is to not only activate (the infamous) vsync but also make a custom resolution with precisely 62Hz refresh rate. This is because the engine runs at 62.5 FPS (=1000/16). Except it doesn't -> it fluctuates a lot around this number. But on Windows 7 you would install community mod to unlock FPS (which does not work in WinXP) so the engine then runs at a much higher FPS than your monitor's refresh rate (making any previous fluctuations a non-issue) and then apply scanline-sync to smooth it all out.

This is why G-Sync and FreeSync is such a fantastic thing. Doom 3 is the exact same way, where it runs at 62.5 FPS. Completely smooth with G-Sync, stuttery as hell at just 60 Hz. Mafia could be fixed on Windows 10 without modding (if it's the way you say, never played it myself) by just capping with Rivatuner to 62.5 FPS and having your monitor sync to that. Same thing with Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas (just a 64 FPS cap instead of 62.5).

For most games, I cap to 162 FPS (my refresh rate is 165 Hz) with G-Sync on with v-sync forced on in the NVCP to have no input lag and have no screen tearing. Works great.

Yes, G-Sync could help with the fluctuations and maybe could even sometimes help where scanline-sync is not working. I only keep hearing about it, never had a monitor with G-Sync.

Capping Mafia to 62.5FPS does not make it smooth sadly, there is something with the engine causing large fluctuations, from the top of my head around 5FPS. It's like Doom 3 but worse, not as stable. I think Doom 3 you would want to unlock it to run not at 62 but 63FPS (which will make audio out of sync, shouldn't be noticeable) and then scanline-sync (it's been a while so I might be off here).

And to make things more clear (just kidding) UT99 is best frame capped at double the refresh rate unless you have a high RR monitor then just 1x. I think the engine has issues over 200FPS or so.

Quake III does not work with scanline-sync. High FPS (over 400 I think) will make it stutter no matter what, especially when online. This one I play vanilla, on 160+Hz CRT if possible. It is pretty smooth by default (lean code I guess) and having input lag as low as possible is important (in instagib mods at least). Maybe you could make it better if you set your monitor's refresh rate to 100/125/200/250/500Hz but on a CRT 125 vs 160 is a noticeable difference where I would rather choose the latter for this fast-paced game. Or G-Sync if it works with high refresh rates these days (it used to be only for around 40-60FPS IIRC).

I am just trying to illustrate that one needs to play around with various methods in every game, to find their sweet spot. 64FPS in New Vegas, huh? Who would have guessed...

In-game I suggest strafing left and right looking at a detailed wall texture or find some panning animation (Mafia menu) to easily make sure if it is really smooth or not.

auron wrote on 2021-02-03, 22:20:

well, the -0.007 cap has worked so well for me over the last years that i have not yet bothered to look into scanline sync, even though i've been meaning to - and that's at 60hz, where the issue is exacerbated compared to higher refresh rates. for instance it even fixes the otherwise completely broken gta 2 PC port where the internal limiter runs at a fluctuating 25 FPS otherwise, and limiting is mandatory because game speed breaks at higher FPS. mirrors edge catalyst is another example where the internal limiter delivers horrible frametimes. it even cuts down on input lag compared to regular vsync, which to my understanding is due to eliminating unnecessarily queued up frames.

i realize that it's not supposed to be a 100% perfect solution, but using it i usually can't make out any stutter in 60hz motion, which more than just a slight improvement over the garbage FPS limiting that's going on in most PC games nowadays.

Maybe it did not work so well for me because I only tried -1, -0.1, -0.01 and -0.001. Not "...7" as you. Would you happen to know the reasoning behind the number 7?

About GTA2, first thing I would try is to unlock the FPS and then somehow lock it myself at the highest possible limit where it still does not break the game. This may or may not get rid of the fluctuations if you then cap it yourself in good pacing with your refresh rate (either framecap or scanline-sync). I might actually try GTA2 and F.E.A.R (at 120Hz, as OP) myself later and will post back if I do. Great games.

duga3 wrote on 2021-02-03, 22:46:

Yes, G-Sync could help with the fluctuations and maybe could even sometimes help where scanline-sync is not working. I only keep […]
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MrEWhite wrote on 2021-02-03, 22:12:

duga3 wrote on 2021-02-03, 21:23:

For example the only way to make Mafia smooth on Windows XP (where scanline-sync is not supported) is to not only activate (the infamous) vsync but also make a custom resolution with precisely 62Hz refresh rate. This is because the engine runs at 62.5 FPS (=1000/16). Except it doesn't -> it fluctuates a lot around this number. But on Windows 7 you would install community mod to unlock FPS (which does not work in WinXP) so the engine then runs at a much higher FPS than your monitor's refresh rate (making any previous fluctuations a non-issue) and then apply scanline-sync to smooth it all out.

This is why G-Sync and FreeSync is such a fantastic thing. Doom 3 is the exact same way, where it runs at 62.5 FPS. Completely smooth with G-Sync, stuttery as hell at just 60 Hz. Mafia could be fixed on Windows 10 without modding (if it's the way you say, never played it myself) by just capping with Rivatuner to 62.5 FPS and having your monitor sync to that. Same thing with Oblivion, Fallout 3, and New Vegas (just a 64 FPS cap instead of 62.5).

For most games, I cap to 162 FPS (my refresh rate is 165 Hz) with G-Sync on with v-sync forced on in the NVCP to have no input lag and have no screen tearing. Works great.

Yes, G-Sync could help with the fluctuations and maybe could even sometimes help where scanline-sync is not working. I only keep hearing about it, never had a monitor with G-Sync.

Capping Mafia to 62.5FPS does not make it smooth sadly, there is something with the engine causing large fluctuations, from the top of my head around 5FPS. It's like Doom 3 but worse, not as stable. I think Doom 3 you would want to unlock it to run not at 62 but 63FPS (which will make audio out of sync, shouldn't be noticeable) and then scanline-sync (it's been a while so I might be off here).

And to make things more clear (just kidding) UT99 is best frame capped at double the refresh rate unless you have a high RR monitor then just 1x. I think the engine has issues over 200FPS or so.

Quake III does not work with scanline-sync. High FPS (over 400 I think) will make it stutter no matter what, especially when online. This one I play vanilla, on 160+Hz CRT if possible. It is pretty smooth by default (lean code I guess) and having input lag as low as possible is important (in instagib mods at least). Maybe you could make it better if you set your monitor's refresh rate to 100/125/200/250/500Hz but on a CRT 125 vs 160 is a noticeable difference where I would rather choose the latter for this fast-paced game. Or G-Sync if it works with high refresh rates these days (it used to be only for around 40-60FPS IIRC).

I am just trying to illustrate that one needs to play around with various methods in every game, to find their sweet spot. 64FPS in New Vegas, huh? Who would have guessed...

In-game I suggest strafing left and right looking at a detailed wall texture or find some panning animation (Mafia menu) to easily make sure if it is really smooth or not.

Scanline Sync is more of a hack than a solution a lot of the time imo, G-Sync/FreeSync just works a lot better than it in most cases. Also, G-Sync (with a dedicated module) works from 30 FPS to the max refresh rate of of the monitor. FreeSync stuff can vary from monitor to monitor.

64 FPS is the cap you want for 3, NV, and Oblivion because the engine runs internally at that rate. It's a well known cause of the stutter for these games.

And, as I said before, Doom 3 works perfectly fine out of the box on a G-Sync and FreeSync screen as the screen syncs perfectly to the engine's tick rate.

gsync/freesync is a solution yes but not everyone cares or wants to invest in such a monitor. incidentally, even with that, you still need to be able to properly operate ingame FPS limiters or limit via RTSS if such is not available; there's a good amount of people with 1000$+ monitors out there that fail to do this and don't understand why the monitor's main gimmick doesn't work that well.

@duga3: i'll just quote realnc from guru3d forums, credit for this solution goes to him anyway (at least i have learned it from his posts there a couple years back): https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/rtss-not-li … 6/#post-5538968

-0.01 should work according to this, maybe you should check that one again. and regarding GTA2, that's exactly how i fixed it: turn off the internal limiter and limit at 29.993 FPS in RTSS, vsync forced via driver, making it look just about as smooth at 60 hz as you'd expect on console. it's just baffling to me that it took nearly 20 years to get that game to look right on PC...

i'd still be somewhat interested in a solution for a period win98 pc though, supposedly that 25fps cap can be tweaked via registry so if true it might be possible to improve results there to a degree.

Thanks for the link @auron, will give it a try later.

@all Also beware of one thing. If you are using RTSS to draw frametimes chart and you see it flatline (perhaps because you framecapped) it does not necesarily mean your game is smooth. It is possible that in some cases of the -x framecap it is only placebo in the eyes (of an unspoiled beginner framecapper) - where the only thing that is smooth is that flatline (artificially). It's best to just use your eyes.

while i have not run into an incompatible game yet, some (newer) games apparently indeed don't like this framecapping method, there's a couple mentioned here: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/certain-gam … s-drops.431080/

in general though RTSS capping is supposed to give that flat line because it's quite precise compared to most engine limiters, which is the whole point to get even frametimes. and of course performance dips should still show up on a correctly configured graph.

and by the way, since i saw you mentioned ut99 earlier: issues there really start at about 100 FPS and the problems you get when above that include heavy stutter, particularily during online play. while i'm not versed in the details i imagine it's tied to deeper workings of the engine than just the renderer, which is why something like that may not show up on the graph.

auron wrote on 2021-02-04, 03:03:

while i have not run into an incompatible game yet, some (newer) games apparently indeed don't like this framecapping method, there's a couple mentioned here: https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/certain-gam … s-drops.431080/

in general though RTSS capping is supposed to give that flat line because it's quite precise compared to most engine limiters, which is the whole point to get even frametimes. and of course performance dips should still show up on a correctly configured graph.

and by the way, since i saw you mentioned ut99 earlier: issues there really start at about 100 FPS and the problems you get when above that include heavy stutter, particularily during online play. while i'm not versed in the details i imagine it's tied to deeper workings of the engine than just the renderer, which is why something like that may not show up on the graph.

I don't have the issue the person states in either of the games he mentions (MCC and BFV, but I don't cap to 60 in either, I cap to 162. MCC sits at a solid 162 while BFV runs below that because I completely max it out).

auron wrote on 2021-02-04, 03:03:

in general though RTSS capping is supposed to give that flat line because it's quite precise compared to most engine limiters, which is the whole point to get even frametimes. and of course performance dips should still show up on a correctly configured graph.

Yes, "not necessarily" is the key here. Framecapping (to or around your refresh rate) does not necessarily make it smooth but will probably show a flat line (anyway).

auron wrote on 2021-02-04, 03:03:

and by the way, since i saw you mentioned ut99 earlier: issues there really start at about 100 FPS and the problems you get when above that include heavy stutter, particularily during online play. while i'm not versed in the details i imagine it's tied to deeper workings of the engine than just the renderer, which is why something like that may not show up on the graph.

Yes, I have experienced stutter in my online play of UT99 (it was fine in SP with bots). Asked around the servers and nobody knew/cared about it. At that point I just turned it off and decided for myself that Quake III is the better game of the two (all hail to the king!).