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Reply 80 of 100, by dr.zeissler

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Lot's of informations here... I currently use ATI 4.10.2440 on my onboard RageIIc. I am using Win95b with DX5 drivers installed.
I do not want to upgrade to a higher DX-Version because games that require DX6 do not run on that low end machine either.

The RageIIc does not support opengl, so there is no way of getting gl-doom/gl-quake to run in it. I use winquake/doom95 instead.

Are there better drivers for my setup? what would be you recommendations? Does the RagePro Tweaker 1.0 support the RageIIc?

Thx
Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 81 of 100, by marxveix

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RageIIc does not support OpenGL, but it is possible to use OpenGL wrapper, it should work. RagePro Tweaker versions are mostly for RagePro.

RagePro Tweaker version 1.0 to 1.2 has readme with this info , under rage2.
This release of the Rage Pro Tweaker does not detect what type of card you have. Some of the 3D options will work, and the overclocker should work - except for the reset to defaults option. The opengl drivers do not work on the Rage II or II+ so the opengl options will not work.

Use also Rage2-Tweaker, but it may need some extra files for windows. I have more experience with RagePro, my first graphics card. I have tested Rage2c with Direct3D and 3DCiF just little, it works, but i would like to get more fps, at least without overclocking and tweaking. Rage Pro has PCI and AGP option, it is possible to disable integrated graphics and use some available free slot for faster graphics card.

I have not used 4.10 dx5 drivers now, dx7a setup file seems not that big ,compared to dx6.1 and dx5.0
http://falconfly.3dfx.pl/directx.htm

I uploaded all three RagePro-Tweaker versions and one Rage2-Tweaker here to download.
https://www.upload.ee/files/12871985/rage2-ra … weaker.zip.html

Good that we have RageXL working 3DCIF driver, Thin clients and server motherboards have RageXL integrated graphics, also rage2c and rage pro on older motherboards.

I have HP t5000 series thin client - t5300 with transmeta crusoe tm5600 cpu and ati xl graphics, this would be nice dos and win9x machine, it just need bigger ide 44-pin dom and then i am ready to start. Usb 1.1 is bit slow, but for mouse and keyboard it is good and even for usb stick, it is sometimes ok.
https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t5300/

Reply 82 of 100, by dr.zeissler

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Thx, I really love that machine and I like the RageIIc because it offers native Win3x drivers. Amithlon seems to works too.
I have only two PCI-Slots, one is equipped with a PowerVR (PCX1) card, the other is used with a ESSSolo1 PCI.

Greetings
Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 83 of 100, by dr.zeissler

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Has anyone ever got more than 16colors in Win3x out of the Rage2LT-Pro.
Even WFW-Drivers, patched VESA-Drivers do not work. I only get garbage on screen.

Doc

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 84 of 100, by f1etch

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Hi

Amazing work here!
I have a HP T5700 Thin Client, with an ATi Rage XL (PCI, 8MB) built in to it. One of the reasons I got this particular one was for the 3DCIF possibility.
Unfortunately, it seems the upload.ee links earlier in this thread have all expired, so I'm unable to try the driver packages posted by marxveix on page 4 with the "Rage XL downgrade option"

I've tried the "ATI_3D_CIF_compatible_Rage_XL_driver_for_Win9x-ME_r3.zip" from Gona's site, but it doesn't work with the T5700 I have.
Driver installs with no errors, but on reboot, get errors about display not being configured correctly, and it defaults to 640x480x16.
Device manager shows as RageXL PCI, and says the device is working properly.
This was on a clean install of 98SE. More than happy to try anything anyone would like to suggest to coax that to life.

I tried the J5.30.1-B02 drivers downloaded from Phil's site, and that works fine in windows, but pretty sure that's the unmodified package, so no XL downgrade option/3DCIF support

Any chance of a re-upload of the packages with the XL downgrade option?
If not, a list of which files I need to downgrade?

As there seem to be a few people with the T5000 series Thin Clients, this could help a few of us!

Thanks loads,

F1etch

Reply 85 of 100, by marxveix

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Hi F1etch,

My 5.38.2582-3dcif files are also here (upload.ee uploaded files expire after some time).
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … ge-MarxVeix?w=1

Thank you Takedasun!, seems that you have uploaded my other and earlier 4.11.2582 / 4.11.2611 builds also there with my win9x opengl package (ragepro-opengl.zip) that is not latest by now, but still has many OpenGL ICD for Rage cards.

My other earlier builds and tryouts:
w82582en.zip
4.11.2611_rage-3dcif.zip
MACXW4_4.11.2582_Fast_B_est_now_XL_Beta.zip
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … e%20PRO_CIF?w=1

Win9x Rage OpenGL files (not my latest and not complete, still we miss many).
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/OGL_RagePro?w=1
ATi RagePro OpenGL files

NB! For the 2573/2582 and probably some other, older drivers:
MACXDD16.DL_ (.DLL) can be latest 5043 or older with other/older versions of MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL)
RAGE2C - latest working MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) is 5033 or older and ATI3DCIF.DL_ (.DLL) can be latest 2696 or older
RAGEPRO (MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) can be latest 5035 or older and ATI3DCIF.DL_ (.DLL) can be latest 2696 or older
RAGEXL working (MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) is 5029 and working ATI3DCIF.DL_ (.DLL) is 2692

Rage2C, RagePro, RageXL all work with MACXDD16.DL_ (.DLL) 5043 or older, (MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) 5029 and ATI3DCIF.DL_ (DLL) 2692
Rage2C 3D-Demo might not always work correctly and Knight demo is only for RagePro/LTPro/XL, but games are working for ATi Rage2C
Maybe there exist even newer MACXDD16.DL_ (.DLL) , but more important is ATI3DCIF.DL_(.DLL) and MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) file versions.

MACXDD16.DL_ (.DLL) 5043 (renamed atid16ad.dll) , (MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) 5029, ATI3DCIF.DL_ (DLL) 2692 are used in 5.38.2582-3dcif

Original sp10912.exe has 5035 and w9x_rpro_5386b6a.zip has 5034 version of MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL), so it makes Rage2C 3DCiF Freeze, like Gona has tested those and other Rage drivers, downgrade to 5033 or older and it will work there as well with Rage2C, but best to use is (MACXDD32.DL_ (.DLL) 5029 and ATI3DCIF.DL_ (DLL) 2692 ones, at least in latest MACXW4 drivers.

My 4.11.2611 3dcif driver i also update some day, maybe soon, but for Rage XL use 5.38.2582-3dcif.
If my driver also does not work, then send your vendor and device id info from that Rage XL, like here:
https://www.oocities.org/ziyadhosein/inf.htm
RAGE XL AGP 2X = ati2mpad, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D&SUBSYS_107C10CF, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D
RAGE XL AGP 2X = ati2mpad, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D&SUBSYS_806A1002, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474D
RAGE XL PCI = ati2mpad, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_474F
RAGE XL PCI = ati2mpad, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4752

My AGP Rage XL is 474D (VEN_1002&DEV_474D)

NB! J series info for 3DCIF (4.11.2611_rage-3dcif.zip).
J series works only with multiple and different driver installations 5.40x + j series or macxw4+j series, something like that, i just did not test it with clean installation, all new installations with just j series driver, it does not work, because of the mix of the driver files, Thank you Gona.

For my HP Thin Client - T5300 i haven't bought bigger ide 44-pin dom yet, so it is still in dos mode. I have similar, T5700 has faster CPU 😀
Re: VIASBCFG - VIA SBPro configuration tool for VIA VT8231 & VT82C686/A/B chipsets (v0.12d)

For those who have more than one accelerator in one PC can use 3D Control Center (for Direct3D) and OpenGL Switcher (for OpenGL)
http://vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=807&menustate=0
http://www.3dfxzone.it/dir/3dfx/utilities/?objid=3

I hope F1etch will get it work, let us know, Thank you!

With gratitude,
MarxVeix

Reply 86 of 100, by marxveix

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-04-06, 09:02:

Has anyone ever got more than 16colors in Win3x out of the Rage2LT-Pro.
Even WFW-Drivers, patched VESA-Drivers do not work. I only get garbage on screen.

Doc

Hi dr.zeissler,

These are Mach64 drivers for Win 3.x, i myself have been using dos/win9x all the time with Rage cards and without, i have never used Win 3.x. Some say that RagePro/LT/XL are also working with Win 3.x, at least PCI versions, this also mentions AGP one, someone should confirm, what works and what not and how?
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=328

If you get this driver working then there is also file 64ply303.exe - ATI Player v3.03 for Windows 3.1x for that driver.

Windows 3.1X
- For use with ATI Windows 3.1X Display Driver v3.03.
Download file: 64W31303.EXE
- This software requires Video for Windows 1.1e.
Download file: VFW11E.ZIP

Older versions of Mach64 drivers need also load64.zip, i have seen 1.55 and 2.x drivers for Win 3.x. Rage2 era cards, like Rage2LT-Pro should be more bulletproof for Win3x, at least what i know, more than Rage3 era cards, but Rage3 (Rage Pro/LT/XL) cards are also Mach64 variations and i hope they work as well somehow.

I hope you find working driver or solution.

With gratitude,
MarxVeix

Reply 87 of 100, by f1etch

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Hi Marxveix

Thanks for the links, and the info. I'll give those drivers a try and let you know how it goes.
About your 44 PIN DOM - I found it difficult to find a good capacity at a reasonable price, so I ended up going with a short 44pin cable, an mSATA to 44pin IDE adaptor, and a 64GB mSATA for my T5700
Seems to be working really well so far, didn't cost much, and fits inside the case. I read a couple of threads here about others doing the same, which was encouraging.

Thanks loads,

F1etch

Reply 88 of 100, by dr.zeissler

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marxveix wrote on 2021-07-22, 00:17:
Hi dr.zeissler, […]
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dr.zeissler wrote on 2021-04-06, 09:02:

Has anyone ever got more than 16colors in Win3x out of the Rage2LT-Pro.
Even WFW-Drivers, patched VESA-Drivers do not work. I only get garbage on screen.

Doc

Hi dr.zeissler,

These are Mach64 drivers for Win 3.x, i myself have been using dos/win9x all the time with Rage cards and without, i have never used Win 3.x. Some say that RagePro/LT/XL are also working with Win 3.x, at least PCI versions, this also mentions AGP one, someone should confirm, what works and what not and how?
http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?fileid=328

If you get this driver working then there is also file 64ply303.exe - ATI Player v3.03 for Windows 3.1x for that driver.

Windows 3.1X
- For use with ATI Windows 3.1X Display Driver v3.03.
Download file: 64W31303.EXE
- This software requires Video for Windows 1.1e.
Download file: VFW11E.ZIP

Older versions of Mach64 drivers need also load64.zip, i have seen 1.55 and 2.x drivers for Win 3.x. Rage2 era cards, like Rage2LT-Pro should be more bulletproof for Win3x, at least what i know, more than Rage3 era cards, but Rage3 (Rage Pro/LT/XL) cards are also Mach64 variations and i hope they work as well somehow.

I hope you find working driver or solution.

With gratitude,
MarxVeix

Thx! I'll try it.

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 89 of 100, by dr.zeissler

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Sorry I messed it up. ATI-Drivers from 5.20 CD do work in Win3x just fine. Drivers are for mach64 but are fully compatible with my RageLTpro.
I have two identical mini-desktops with the same board, one worked the other not. I had to fix/upgrade the VGA-Bios on one Board, now both are working.
I have to check what is the best Win9x driver for the RageLTpro. Normally I would go for a DX5-Solution but some drivers do require dx6.

For the best dx6-driver I would recommend:

- good D3D compatibility
- working opengl support
- ati3dcif not broken.

what would be your advice?
Thx!

Retro-Gamer 😀PowerMac 6100-66/Houdini 486/66 - G4 Cube 450/Rage128pro OS9.0.1 - Macintosh LC/Apple IIe Card OS6.0.8 - Acorn A4000 Archimedes - Unisys CWD 486/66 + Aztech Washington

Reply 90 of 100, by f1etch

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Hi

Tried the 5.38.2582-3dcif drivers linked to, but still get the same problem - Drivers install, but on reboot, its 640x480x16,
and errors of "There is a problem with your display settings. The adapter type is incorrect, or the current settings do not work with your hardware."

The info for the XL PCI in my T5700 is
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4752&SUBSYS_80081002&REV_27

It appears in device manager as RAGE XL PCI (4752)

I tried installing the "j5_12_bigzr1" and that works, seems to use ATI2DRAE.DRV 4.12.2647 and ATI2VXAE.VXD 4.12.2648

Thanks,

F1etch

Reply 91 of 100, by marxveix

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f1etch wrote on 2021-07-25, 14:58:
Hi […]
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Hi

Tried the 5.38.2582-3dcif drivers linked to, but still get the same problem - Drivers install, but on reboot, its 640x480x16,
and errors of "There is a problem with your display settings. The adapter type is incorrect, or the current settings do not work with your hardware."

The info for the XL PCI in my T5700 is
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4752&SUBSYS_80081002&REV_27

It appears in device manager as RAGE XL PCI (4752)

I tried installing the "j5_12_bigzr1" and that works, seems to use ATI2DRAE.DRV 4.12.2647 and ATI2VXAE.VXD 4.12.2648

Thanks,

F1etch

By now, if you have installed both macxw4 + j series, can you try 3d-demo (j series drivers installed and working), does it show ATi 3D spinning logo? If yes, then you can run 3dcif games and j series makes your d3d + opengl also work.

Added second 4752 to the MACXW4.INF with your subsys.
"RAGE XL PCI (4752HP-TC)"= MACXW4_PCI_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4752&SUBSYS_80081002, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4752

Try this with manual driver installation, device manager and select manually RAGE XL PCI (4752HP-TC).
https://hingetee.ee/meedia/rage/test/5.38.2582-3DCIF.ZIP

Please try first 3D-DEMO without installing this 5.38.2582-3DCIF again, maybe you already have working 3dcif/d3d/opengl with two driver installations, but you probably need to downgrade/rename at least two files for Rage XL - Ati2drae.dr_ to 2582 and ATI3DCIF.DL_ to 2692, they are inside RageXL3DCiF folder. My older J series drivers are inside 4.11.2611_rage-3dcif.zip file, use that with RageXL3DCiF downgrade for RageXL and there are also 3D-DEMO folder inside some of the J series driver for 3DCIF quick test. Without MACXW4 driver, the J series 3DCIF does not work, it may only start to work with two drivers or just one MACXW4 driver (if it starts to work for you). For the Rage Pro / Rage LT Pro it is bit easier.

Reply 93 of 100, by marxveix

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Hi F1etch,

Long time no reply, the link still works and the page where you did get 403 premission error, if you push one more enter in that browser tab there, then it downloads it.

I have not have time for my own HP terminal build, that probably also has RAGE XL PCI (4752). I have many Rage XL AGP cards and all of them are working with 3DCIF and no PCI versions, only PCI version i have is original ATi Rage Pro edition.

Info is taken from this driver and gonas webpage
ATI_3D_CIF_compatible_Rage_XL_(AGP_only)_driver_for_Win9x-ME_r4.zip
release 4 (2022.Jan.04.)

Phil's Computer Lab has detected that this driver
not works with Rage XL PCI card. Send me one too for
testing is (thanks Phil). I also have nothing
success with MACXW4 drivers. Earlier I thought that
works with both PCI and AGP but the PCI one really
different in some way. I try to test it with post
MACXW4 drivers. I have specified my websites and
this readme file.

I have removed the "RAGE XL PCI (4752)" line from
the MACXW4.INF file because this one sure not works
with this driver at all.

So it ise the same RAGE XL PCI (4752) inside that HP, that you have.

Youtube:
Graphics Card shortage? Buy the ATI Rage XL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEfzfkvaNoM
Modding a "New" ATI Rage XL PCI GPU to Work on a Vintage Motherboard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbyv4wI0v0s

Reply 94 of 100, by Gona

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f1etch wrote on 2021-07-21, 08:59:

Rage XL PCI - 3DCIF ?

Yes, this is a new test result: unfortunately Rage XL PCI is too different than the AGP one and 3D CIF not works.
The oldest driver which supports Page XL PCI is the 4.12.2632 (rpro_j5111b20.zip). This is an ATI2DRAE driver. I have tried to downgrade this driver by ATI2DDAD files, but the maximum what I can reach is a faulty image similar like this one.

tr_Ati2ddad.png
Filename
tr_Ati2ddad.png
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527.05 KiB
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579 views
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Fair use/fair dealing exception

Video card compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 95 of 100, by marxveix

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Hi Gona,

Did you tested RAGE XL PCI (4752) also in DOS with Actua Soccer: Semi-Finals - ATI 3D RAGE version, is result the same, like other Rage3 cards?

I know that at least one ATI_DRAE (WinME built in) Rage driver file is compatible with MACXW4 2573/2582 drivers, when i was testing speed and compability for the 5.38.2582-3dcif, then i used this winme vxd file also, that worked well with MACXW4. Inside winme-macxw4-vxd.zip file, it is already renamed. All the ATi drivers are probably inside DRIVER5.CAB, DRIVER6.CAB, DRIVER7.CAB from WINME folder CD.

I would try original WinME drivers also with RAGE XL PCI (4752), WinME clean install to see if it works with WinME drivers somehow.

One WinME working vxd for MACXW4 drivers:
https://www.upload.ee/files/13910805/winme-ma … w4-vxd.zip.html

WINME vxd file in this 5.38.2582-3dcif driver, HP inf added:
https://www.upload.ee/files/13910895/5.38.258 … -mevxd.zip.html

I cant test it with RAGE XL PCI 4752, at least now or near future. 😀

Reply 96 of 100, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2022-02-22, 21:40:

Did you tested RAGE XL PCI (4752) also in DOS with Actua Soccer: Semi-Finals - ATI 3D RAGE version, is result the same, like other Rage3 cards?

I know that at least one ATI_DRAE (WinME built in) Rage driver file is compatible with MACXW4 2573/2582 drivers, when i was testing speed and compability for the 5.38.2582-3dcif, then i used this winme vxd file also, that worked well with MACXW4. Inside winme-macxw4-vxd.zip file, it is already renamed. All the ATi drivers are probably inside DRIVER5.CAB, DRIVER6.CAB, DRIVER7.CAB from WINME folder CD.

I have tested RAGE XL PCI (4752) in DOS with Actua Soccer: Semi-Finals - ATI 3D RAGE, and gives erratic picture.
I have not tested the WinME built-in ATI_DRAE driver. I'm going to test it, but I don't think much chance because with 3D Rage PRO can mix different drivers because all of them support it, but none of MACXW4 nor ATI2DRAB work with RAGE XL PCI and this is a big disadvantage.

Video card compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 97 of 100, by Gona

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marxveix wrote on 2022-02-22, 21:40:

I would try original WinME drivers also with RAGE XL PCI (4752), WinME clean install to see if it works with WinME drivers somehow.

I have tested, WinME ATI_DRAE driver (by a clean WinME install) and it knows RAGE XL PCI and works in 2D (so this is the earliest driver version that supports RAGE XL PCI). I have copied ati3dcif.dll 4.11.2692 to the system and it gives faulty colored 3d image in 3D CIF (as all ATI2DRAE drivers). I have tried mixing the ATI_VXAE.VXD (virtual device) included in this WinME ATI_DRAE driver with my MACXW4 4.11.2573 based driver pack, but nothing textures in 3D CIF. Than same procedure with ATI_VXAE.VXD and MACXW4 4.11.2582 with the same results, finally I have tried ATI_VXAE.VXD and ATI2DDAD 4.11.2611 (the MITAC driver) but also the same results. So unfortunately 3D CIF compatible .DRV files are not compatible with RAGE XL PCI.

Video card compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 98 of 100, by marxveix

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Finally i am @ 4752 and testing this Rage XL PCI out in Windows , HP t5300 works with tiny 64mb hdd and win95b with usb and mouse,
usb stick is as d: drive. M6.10.99 (4.11.2055) is the earliest driver i could find at the moment that works with Rage XL PCI 4752.

D3D / OpenGL options for display properties menu is possible to add with this Reg Files -> d3d-ogl.reg file,
i have not tested if these menu options are working when setting are changed, works with ATI2DRAB / M6,
maybe J series, but not with 5.40.x and earlier macxw4 drivers, as i remember.

Download link: https://docviewer.yandex.ru/view/0/?*=PreVvAk … zc5ODkifQ%3D%3D

More info about these RageLtMan Unified Driver Reg Files (inside udv2.zip):
Feature wise, i've created a new sub folder for this GD, it's called "Reg Files." The folder contains three files, the beloved d3d-ogl.reg file which enables options for D3D and OpenGL in the advanced display properties. The other two files are HMDL files, one will enable HMDL, the other will disable it. HMDL "will place the video command stream into AGP memory. This should give you a performance boost in games that have a lot of vertices." Althought this option really does work, i reccomend it for people with lots of RAM. I noticed a major difference only after i installed a 128 meg chip in computer (which brought me up to 160). If you get problems after using the enabler file, disable HMDL with the other file. Please note that you must reboot before any chage takes effect.

I started out with very early mobility M6 drivers.

M6.00 and M6.10 (4.11.2049) out of the box no 2D for Rage XL PCI.
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ee/drive … driverid=r20187
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ee/drive … driverid=r20412

M6.10.99 (4.11.2055) works with Rage XL PCI, just add 4752 inf. This is the only working directx6 dirver at the moment.
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ee/drive … driverid=r13791

M6.11 works out of the box for 2D @ 4752
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ee/drive … driverid=r25786

M6.12 also works, but i have not done 3dcif games tests at the moment with any driver so far and 3dcif 3d-demo does not work.

3DCIF 3D-Demo errors:
Error 1
Could not greate primary surface
Error 2
Could not initialize 3d driver

ati2drab. drv (dr_) file is changeable with other M6 driver, so 4.11.2055 ati2drab works with earlier M6.00/M6.10 drivers and 2D is Ok, 3DCIF is not working. Gona did you get 3D-Demo to start with Rage XL PCI 4752 or not and what error you get? Maybe it is time to try 3DCIF Tomb Raider out for me, but 3D Demo should also start, error 1 and error 2 show with different ati3dcif.dll and renamed macxdd32.dll 4.11.5029, at the moment with m6 drivers it is like that, 4.11.2055 i did try out with clean Win95 install, maybe there is some hope left for these cards, at the moment no luck @ 3dcif and 4752 with these ATI2DRAB drivers so far.