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Reply 20 of 486, by nukeykt

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Thanks for clarifying that!

Now, when you say "ymf724 doesn't support FM on PCI range" did you mean "PCIe range", right? Otherwise it would mean that the ymf724 doesn't support its included FM chip even on a regular PCI slot![/quote]

PCIe allows only ports >= "card base address",unlike PCI. 724's FM port always < "card base address". Native PCI supports any port. But since new PC chipsets doesn't have native PCI(new motherboards with PCI actually have PCIe to PCI bridge), it is not guaranteed that Fm will work.

Reply 21 of 486, by Kamerat

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LSS10999 wrote:

YAMAHA YMF7xx
The one I had was a YMF744. It has a genuine OPL3 FM chip on board. However, it doesn't seem to have a known chipset-independent workaround, and the settings were locked to "Port=220, IRQ=INTA#(5), DMA=1 using DDMA at 8000" for most motherboards. It was said such settings can be changed only on 440BX motherboard (which was at least a decade ago). The card may still have the potential to work on other chipsets, just the driver itself is unlikely to work properly with modern motherboards due to SETUPDS couldn't handle other chipsets properly.

Supports only FM music on all nVidia chipsets and later VIA chipsets. It's in fact a DDMA-dependent card and are not aware of modern motherboards, and it makes the system unstable and crashes a lot. The FM chip will work chipset-independent as it's a native, genuine FM synth that will happily assign itself to port 388h, but unfortunately it will not work properly on later AMD chipsets as legacy compatibilities on those chipsets are completely gone.

I don't know if you hang around here anymore, but I have in the past week tested a YMF744 on PCIe based chipsets from Intel (X58, P965, G965 and 945G) and Nvidia (Quadro NVS 210S/nForce 430) and got them all working with the DSDMA TSR provided in the driver package on Yamahas website. The TSR calls itself ETEKVM when loaded and takes up under 2kB of RAM, it can be loaded to the upper memory area and needs EMM386/JEMM386.

Link to my post: YMF744+DSDMA+DOS+P965(and other PCIe chipsets)=success
Link to driver: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/lsi/download/

CMI8738 was said to support DOS, but in fact, it doesn't. Even those onboard CMI8738/9739 that existed on some motherboards don't seem to support DOS properly, while the drivers will not load and saying cannot find PCI device on newer boards.

CMI8738 works on "very" old games, I've used it with games like Space Quest 4, Winter Challenge, Wolfenstein 3D and Gods. It also works on Deluxe Ski Jump from 2000. Maybe theese games doesn't need DMA?

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 22 of 486, by nukeykt

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That's because these chipsets have both native PCI and PCIe. Later chipsets has only PCIe and PCI was done using PCIe to PCI bridge chips thus SB/AdLib compatiblity doesn't work.

Reply 23 of 486, by Kamerat

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nukeykt wrote:

That's because these chipsets have both native PCI and PCIe. Later chipsets has only PCIe and PCI was done using PCIe to PCI bridge chips thus SB/AdLib compatiblity doesn't work.

All Intel chipsets had PCI support back in 2010 when the thread started, it wasn't until 2011 Intel started removing PCI-support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_c … ipsets#LGA_1156
Still most sound cards refuses to work under DOS when running them on ICH6 or newer southbridges while other refuses to work without DDMA support (none of the ICH versions ever supported DDMA, VIA's last were the VT82C686B. It seems that SiS kept DDMA support longer, but I experienced it quite buggy).

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 24 of 486, by LSS10999

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Kamerat wrote:
I don't know if you hang around here anymore, but I have in the past week tested a YMF744 on PCIe based chipsets from Intel (X58 […]
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LSS10999 wrote:

YAMAHA YMF7xx
The one I had was a YMF744. It has a genuine OPL3 FM chip on board. However, it doesn't seem to have a known chipset-independent workaround, and the settings were locked to "Port=220, IRQ=INTA#(5), DMA=1 using DDMA at 8000" for most motherboards. It was said such settings can be changed only on 440BX motherboard (which was at least a decade ago). The card may still have the potential to work on other chipsets, just the driver itself is unlikely to work properly with modern motherboards due to SETUPDS couldn't handle other chipsets properly.

Supports only FM music on all nVidia chipsets and later VIA chipsets. It's in fact a DDMA-dependent card and are not aware of modern motherboards, and it makes the system unstable and crashes a lot. The FM chip will work chipset-independent as it's a native, genuine FM synth that will happily assign itself to port 388h, but unfortunately it will not work properly on later AMD chipsets as legacy compatibilities on those chipsets are completely gone.

I don't know if you hang around here anymore, but I have in the past week tested a YMF744 on PCIe based chipsets from Intel (X58, P965, G965 and 945G) and Nvidia (Quadro NVS 210S/nForce 430) and got them all working with the DSDMA TSR provided in the driver package on Yamahas website. The TSR calls itself ETEKVM when loaded and takes up under 2kB of RAM, it can be loaded to the upper memory area and needs EMM386/JEMM386.

Link to my post: YMF744+DSDMA+DOS+P965(and other PCIe chipsets)=success
Link to driver: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/lsi/download/

CMI8738 was said to support DOS, but in fact, it doesn't. Even those onboard CMI8738/9739 that existed on some motherboards don't seem to support DOS properly, while the drivers will not load and saying cannot find PCI device on newer boards.

CMI8738 works on "very" old games, I've used it with games like Space Quest 4, Winter Challenge, Wolfenstein 3D and Gods. It also works on Deluxe Ski Jump from 2000. Maybe theese games doesn't need DMA?

Well done on getting DSDMA working on new chipsets for YMF7xx. While still requires EMM386 it's excellent progress. (Aureal AU8820 and 8830 don't have this requirement)
And by the way... does DSDMA require EMS (RAM) or just needs EMM386 itself (NOEMS)? Also, it may be more stable to use MS EMM386 instead as from my experience, while it doesn't seem to work well with large RAM (>1GB), it's generally more compatible with DOS programs especially when involving EMS.

Additionally, I once noticed some modern boards (and maybe other devices, mainly add-on IDE/SATA cards and onboard RAID/AHCI) have BIOS codes that takes up UMB and at times even invade page frame area (usually E000-EFFF). Such will result in less UMB available for other programs, or even worse, making EMM386 unable to find a suitable place to put the EMS page frames, preventing EMS from working. (JEMM386 will complain about EMS function limited but will still load, while MS EMM386 will refuse to load saying unable to set page frame). Given DSDMA may require EMS to work, it's advised to avoid using any devices that needs to put something in the upper memory area for its functionality, mainly onboard AHCI and add-on IDE/SATA cards, and disable any other unnecessary onboard devices, for best compatibility.

Still, for compatible chipsets (like ICHx, VT82C686A/B), one still needs to hack the SETUPDS executable in order to make PC/PCI or DDMA configurable on the target chipset without the need of using DSDMA.

And regarding CMI8738... I myself have never made any work back then, even with compatible chipsets, and with boards that have it onboard... Guess there are variants that work with DOS and others don't. And besides, as long as a game plays digitized sound it'll need DMA. On the other hand FM synth on PCI cards do not require DMA and should work on any chipset that has native PCI slots.

Again, from what I can find at present, all currently available ISA-equipped industrial motherboards with ICH6 or later use PCI/ISA bridges which can no longer natively support ISA DMA without doing something special... yet one can still just put a sound card there and get the most out of its native FM synth. At present, I have not personally found any info on currently available post-ICH5 ISA-equipped motherboards that use LPC/ISA bridges instead of PCI/ISA.

nukeykt wrote:

Thanks for clarifying that!

Now, when you say "ymf724 doesn't support FM on PCI range" did you mean "PCIe range", right? Otherwise it would mean that the ymf724 doesn't support its included FM chip even on a regular PCI slot!

PCIe allows only ports >= "card base address",unlike PCI. 724's FM port always < "card base address". Native PCI supports any port. But since new PC chipsets doesn't have native PCI(new motherboards with PCI actually have PCIe to PCI bridge), it is not guaranteed that Fm will work.

So now another layer of incompatibility with those legacy stuffs has surfaced... that PCIe cannot access ports below its base address, which prevents Sound Blaster I/O (0x220), General MIDI (0x330) and FM synth (0x388) from being accessed... This not only breaks compatibility with DOS, but also breaks programs that may make use of any native MIDI or FM synths available to the system such as DOSBox.

And yeah, native PCI seems completely gone since Haswell (8-series), according to the list on Wikipedia. For earlier architecture, only select few PCHs include native PCI: 5-series, B65, Q65, Q67, B75, Q75, Q77, Z77. For YMF744's FM synth, those are the end of the line.

I haven't found any info regarding whether AMD chipsets (7xx/8xx/9xx) have native PCI or not, but it's likely they don't or they don't work as intended if they do, as from my experience PCI audio cards don't get picked up even after the drivers loaded into the memory. I don't know about the FCHs though the list on Wikipedia implies that all desktop FCHs have them, so those with desktop APU boards may try if interested. After all, AMD chipsets have so far broken so many legacy stuffs that only current OS and hardware can be installed.

Reply 25 of 486, by Kamerat

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LSS10999 wrote:

Well done on getting DSDMA working on new chipsets for YMF7xx. While still requires EMM386 it's excellent progress. (Aureal AU8820 and 8830 don't have this requirement)
And by the way... does DSDMA require EMS (RAM) or just needs EMM386 itself (NOEMS)? Also, it may be more stable to use MS EMM386 instead as from my experience, while it doesn't seem to work well with large RAM (>1GB), it's generally more compatible with DOS programs especially when involving EMS.

I tried running EMM386 with the NOEMS option yesterday and DSDMA still works. It looks like it uses the VCPI function of EMM386, at least DSDMA complains about it when EMM386 isn't loaded.

And regarding CMI8738... I myself have never made any work back then, even with compatible chipsets, and with boards that have it onboard... Guess there are variants that work with DOS and others don't. And besides, as long as a game plays digitized sound it'll need DMA. On the other hand FM synth on PCI cards do not require DMA and should work on any chipset that has native PCI slots.

Maybe it's how games detect the presence of DMA that makes som work while others don't. Also tested a CMI8738 on a P965/ICH8 board. With the games that I got PCM sound working on older chipsets it just outputs noise when PCM effects are playing.

Edit: Also Impulse Tracker v2.14 works on the CMI8738 on a 440BX board.

Edit 2: Funny thing is that Impulse Tracker works in SB16 mode on one of my CMI8738 cards, the Zoltrix Nightingale, but my Phillips PSC605 only does SBPRO.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 26 of 486, by Kamerat

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I made a spreadsheet where I list different sound cards I own and how they work for me on different chipsets:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cvhr6 … dit?usp=sharing

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 27 of 486, by Jo22

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Hi, not all CMI8738's are equal. Some are SB Pro compatible, some not. It depends on the manufacturer/card model.
I once checked this by swapping them in a test computer. Both were detected, but only one had the legacy block enabled.
Anyway, I don't want to mess up this thread. In case you're interested, we discussed something similar (soundcards with S/PDIF) in another thread..

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 28 of 486, by Kamerat

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LSS10999 wrote:
So far the southbridge compatibilities for PCI audio cards are as follows: ... VIA: DDMA capable as of VT82C686B and probably st […]
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So far the southbridge compatibilities for PCI audio cards are as follows:
...
VIA: DDMA capable as of VT82C686B and probably still present in all up to VT823x series southbridges. On VT8237x, AFAIK only ESS Solo-1's DOS driver can still work in most scenarios.
...
I have no idea of chipsets of other manufacturers as of now (SiS, ULi, etc.) for I don't have info or boards to figure them out. If anyone has such experience with those chipsets feel free to share.

Kamerat wrote:

...(none of the ICH versions ever supported DDMA, VIA's last were the VT82C686B. It seems that SiS kept DDMA support longer, but I experienced it quite buggy).

I think perhaps you were right about the VT823x supporting DDMA, I got at least ALS4000 and FM801-AU working in DDMA mode on a KT266A/VT8233 combo as noted in my spreadsheet. Tried to modify the initializer for the ES1938 and it showed up as DDMA when initializing, but I got no FX or DMA (Duke3D setup) detection. Earlier attempts to modify the SETUPDS.EXE for using the YMF744 on KT266A/VT8233 also failed only allowing me to select PC/PCI in the SETUPDS menu.

I ordered a motherboard with one of the last SiS chipsets, the SiS 671DX/968, for the Intel platform and of course I gonna do some soundcard testing. 😀

Maybe this thread belongs in Marvin?

Edit: Seems like I'm wrong about the FM801-AU running in DDMA mode on the KT266A/VT8233, it runs in "Legacy mode 1" instead which might be som kind of WBDMA mode. Forcing DDMA with "CFG801 /3 /t" makes game fail when initializing Sound Blaster.

Last edited by Kamerat on 2016-12-12, 19:35. Edited 1 time in total.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 29 of 486, by Kamerat

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Kamerat wrote:

I ordered a motherboard with one of the last SiS chipsets, the SiS 671DX/968, for the Intel platform and of course I gonna do some soundcard testing. 😀

Seems like the SiS 671DX/968 doesn't support DDMA so it limits you to YMF with DSDMA, Ensoniq/Creative PCI cards, Vortex and FM801 for DOS Sound Blaster emulation. The ALS4000 set to run in DDMA mode produced same results as the 8738/PCI only outputting PCM sound in older DOS games.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 31 of 486, by Kamerat

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Found the command line options for the FM801-AU initializer, so there's no need to modify CFG801.EXE to get DDMA on "unsupported" chipsets like the KT266A/VT8233. Also the ALS4000 let you manually choose which DMA mode to use via the ALS4KDOS.CFG file.

FM801/FM1000 Audio Initialization for DOS, v2.03


Syntax: CFG801 [/1, /2, /3, /4, /0] [/t]

/1 - Set to legacy 1 mode
/2 - Set to legacy 2 mode
/3 - Set to DDMA mode
/4 - Set to PC/PCI mode
/0 - Autoscan chipset type
/s - Manual Enable SPDIF
/d - Manual Disable SPDIF
/t - turn on TEST Message

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 32 of 486, by Kamerat

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Played around with the modified SETUPDS.EXE from http://vsynchmame.mameworld.info/ and got my YMF744 working in DDMA mode on my SiS 645DX/962UA based motherboard (GigaByte GA-8SIMLNF REV 2.0). With the Pentium 4 3.06 GHz installed it's the fastest setup I've run without the DSDMA TSR.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 34 of 486, by Kamerat

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No, DDMA is the best cable less method for ISA DMA on PCI sound cards for MS-DOS compatibility. PC/PCI (SBLINK) might be better in some cases but requires a PC/PCI connectors on both motherboard and sound card.

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 35 of 486, by LSS10999

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Kamerat wrote:

No, DDMA is the best cable less method for ISA DMA on PCI sound cards for MS-DOS compatibility. PC/PCI (SBLINK) might be better in some cases but requires a PC/PCI connectors on both motherboard and sound card.

Guess this is the case. PC/PCI (SBLINK) requires a physcial connection where as DDMA does not. However, not all PCI sound cards expose such connector, and while Intel supported PC/PCI up to ICH5, I hardly ever see such boards physically featuring it.

ICH never supported DDMA, only PC/PCI up to ICH5, so it won't be as helpful for PCI sound cards, but helpful enough for some industrial motherboard manufacturers to be able to wire those connections to an onboard PCI-ISA bridge chip to include fully functional ISA slots using those chipsets instead.

Reply 36 of 486, by Kamerat

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LSS10999 wrote:

I have no idea of chipsets of other manufacturers as of now (SiS, ULi, etc.) for I don't have info or boards to figure them out. If anyone has such experience with those chipsets feel free to share.

I got some results from SiS and ULi chipsets: SiS 645DX/962UA runs fine with the Yamaha YMF744 (requires modified SETUPDS) and the Avance Logic ALS4000 in DDMA mode. The ESS Solo-1 wouldn't work in DDMA nor TDMA mode. The ALS4000 also worked in DDMA mode on the VIA KT266A/VT8233, perhaps the only card that does DDMA on southbridges newer than the VT82C686B?

DDMA support seems to end sometime between the 962 and 964 series of southbridges as the SiS 755FX/964L combo won't run theese cards in DDMA. For southbridges newer than the 962 the Forté Media FM801 seems like the only option if you don't want any TSRs.

The ULi M1695/M1567 used in the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 don't seem to have proper DDMA but also this will run with the FM801.

LSS10999 wrote:

ESS Solo-1 (ES1938)
This PCI sound card has the best compatibility through ESS' Transparent DMA (TDMA). In TDMA mode it uses about 1.5K of base memory while it doesn't use any base memory if in DDMA mode on old chipsets.

LSS10999 wrote:

Fortemedia FM801
It uses a proprietary technology to ensure compatibility, but it's not as compatible as ESS' TDMA. It uses about 1.8K of base memory, but many programs would crash with runtime errors or something, especially on my K8T890-based motherboards. I cannot test too much about the onboard FM synth, but so far the music from those games I can run with that card sounds authentic.

In my experience both the Solo-1 and FM801 can run in TDMA mode and "Legacy" mode even without the TSR, just use the PCI IRQ as the SB IRQ. The FM synth on the FM801 isn't as autentic as the the Solo-1, YMF7xx and ALS4000 ones, but if you like really shitty FM synth you should go for some Cirrus Logic based PCI cards. 🤣

Duke Nukem 3D got some stability issues with the FM801 when using the MPU401 interface, this happens both in DDMA and Legacy modes. I also tried to use the MPU401 provided by the LPC chips on some motherboards but Duke Nukem 3D won't detect them. The FM801 also got issues with the sampling rate in some games playing samples too slow or too fast.

LSS10999 wrote:

CMI8738 was said to support DOS, but in fact, it doesn't. Even those onboard CMI8738/9739 that existed on some motherboards don't seem to support DOS properly, while the drivers will not load and saying cannot find PCI device on newer boards.

Looks like some very old games works with sound effects, like The Games: Winter Challenge, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem II and Space Quest IV. Perhaps it only works with games that uses single cycle DMA?

I might have repeated myself in some of the sentences, but it's better to say somthing twice than don't say anything at all. 😊

DOS Sound Blaster compatibility: PCI sound cards vs. PCI chipsets
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Reply 37 of 486, by LSS10999

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Kamerat wrote:
I got some results from SiS and ULi chipsets: SiS 645DX/962UA runs fine with the Yamaha YMF744 (requires modified SETUPDS) and t […]
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LSS10999 wrote:

I have no idea of chipsets of other manufacturers as of now (SiS, ULi, etc.) for I don't have info or boards to figure them out. If anyone has such experience with those chipsets feel free to share.

I got some results from SiS and ULi chipsets: SiS 645DX/962UA runs fine with the Yamaha YMF744 (requires modified SETUPDS) and the Avance Logic ALS4000 in DDMA mode. The ESS Solo-1 wouldn't work in DDMA nor TDMA mode. The ALS4000 also worked in DDMA mode on the VIA KT266A/VT8233, perhaps the only card that does DDMA on southbridges newer than the VT82C686B?

DDMA support seems to end sometime between the 962 and 964 series of southbridges as the SiS 755FX/964L combo won't run theese cards in DDMA. For southbridges newer than the 962 the Forté Media FM801 seems like the only option if you don't want any TSRs.

The ULi M1695/M1567 used in the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 don't seem to have proper DDMA but also this will run with the FM801.

So the ESS Solo-1 is not really compatible with SiS chipsets, but YMF744 would work with a modded SETUPDS.

I'm not familiar with the ALS4000 as I did not have one, but from the looks of it it seems to be more compatible with those chipsets.

Kamerat wrote:
In my experience both the Solo-1 and FM801 can run in TDMA mode and "Legacy" mode even without the TSR, just use the PCI IRQ as […]
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LSS10999 wrote:

ESS Solo-1 (ES1938)
This PCI sound card has the best compatibility through ESS' Transparent DMA (TDMA). In TDMA mode it uses about 1.5K of base memory while it doesn't use any base memory if in DDMA mode on old chipsets.

LSS10999 wrote:

Fortemedia FM801
It uses a proprietary technology to ensure compatibility, but it's not as compatible as ESS' TDMA. It uses about 1.8K of base memory, but many programs would crash with runtime errors or something, especially on my K8T890-based motherboards. I cannot test too much about the onboard FM synth, but so far the music from those games I can run with that card sounds authentic.

In my experience both the Solo-1 and FM801 can run in TDMA mode and "Legacy" mode even without the TSR, just use the PCI IRQ as the SB IRQ. The FM synth on the FM801 isn't as autentic as the the Solo-1, YMF7xx and ALS4000 ones, but if you like really shitty FM synth you should go for some Cirrus Logic based PCI cards. 🤣

Duke Nukem 3D got some stability issues with the FM801 when using the MPU401 interface, this happens both in DDMA and Legacy modes. I also tried to use the MPU401 provided by the LPC chips on some motherboards but Duke Nukem 3D won't detect them. The FM801 also got issues with the sampling rate in some games playing samples too slow or too fast.

I'm not sure how to get the cards work without TSR but those were definitely needed when I was using those cards. Still, it seems only when the audio card is actually taking IRQ 5 (which in turn would be used for the legacy audio) would sound effects work without issues after loading the driver.

I did recall hearing FM801 playing audio samples at wrong rate in some games like Wolf3D when I tested it back then, but I could not test too much as it's not as stable as Solo-1 on VT8237 (ASUS M2V, for example). Many things would crash. However, the FM synth on the FM801 card I have sounds good, as I did not hear any difference compared to Solo-1 during testing.

Aureal and Cirrus Logic cards have bad FM synth that sound out-of-pitch, so it's not recommended for those who care about music. However, Aureal cards (Vortex/Vortex2) are the only known ones able to play sound effects on ICH6 and above using its own TSR out of box, although it takes about 30KB of memory and may not as stable as others. I did not actually test Cirrus Logic cards (Crystal CS4281, maybe) thoroughly mainly due to the fact that its FM was so bad.

Kamerat wrote:
LSS10999 wrote:

CMI8738 was said to support DOS, but in fact, it doesn't. Even those onboard CMI8738/9739 that existed on some motherboards don't seem to support DOS properly, while the drivers will not load and saying cannot find PCI device on newer boards.

Looks like some very old games works with sound effects, like The Games: Winter Challenge, Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem II and Space Quest IV. Perhaps it only works with games that uses single cycle DMA?

I might have repeated myself in some of the sentences, but it's better to say somthing twice than don't say anything at all. 😊

I cannot confirm that as back then I hardly got it work. I used to have some Socket 370 boards with CMI8738 onboard, but still could not get audio working in DOS even after successfully loading the DOS driver.

Reply 38 of 486, by BLockOUT

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what about sound blaster audigy 1
and what about aound blaster audigy 2

audigy1 includes DOS drivers on its cdrom
and audidy2 has hacked drivers taken fron audigy1

and both carda are even newer tha aureal vortex2

any idea on how they respond on newer motherboards?

Reply 39 of 486, by LSS10999

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BLockOUT wrote:
what about sound blaster audigy 1 and what about aound blaster audigy 2 […]
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what about sound blaster audigy 1
and what about aound blaster audigy 2

audigy1 includes DOS drivers on its cdrom
and audidy2 has hacked drivers taken fron audigy1

and both carda are even newer tha aureal vortex2

any idea on how they respond on newer motherboards?

SBPCI/Live!/Audigy's DOS driver has very limited scope of usage.
- It needs EMM386 with EMS enabled (NOEMS is not enough). This severely limits available UMB space, not to mention some programs dislike Protected Mode.
- It needs working SERR# to NMI routing aside from the usual requirements. This usually can't be confirmed on newer boards that are working with some other DOS-capable sound cards (some have, others do not). I once tested it working on a 815EP (ICH2), though I have not personally tested on later chipsets. While SERR# to NMI is required, it not sufficient, so ICH6 and beyond is not supported just like other sound cards.