VOGONS


Bought these (retro) hardware today

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Reply 17980 of 52340, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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appiah4 wrote:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

My V3 that I got for $15 BIN mislabeled as a rage xl was mysteriously "lost" by the sellers mail carrier and never made it to the post office. I was refunded and I'm pissed about it. The seller lost nothing, they realized they sold something at a fair, non scalping value and committed fraud by not honoring the legally agreed upon price.

I'll be watching that seller and if that card shows up in another auction I'll be opening a scamming case with eBay.

At this rate, I'm never going to be able to get a V3 card for a reasonable price. Is one glide capable card without spending $50+ dollars too much to ask in this world?

It was only last month when there were a score of Dell Voodoo 3s on the market, have you tried doing a search for the Dell OEM part number?

Either I tried the wrong part number (210-0364-003) or the cheapest is $86 from Canada.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 17981 of 52340, by spiroyster

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appiah4 wrote:
spiroyster wrote:
TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

My V3 that I got for $15 BIN mislabeled as a rage xl was mysteriously "lost" by the sellers mail carrier and never made it to the post office. I was refunded and I'm pissed about it. The seller lost nothing, they realized they sold something at a fair, non scalping value and committed fraud by not honoring the legally agreed upon price.

I'll be watching that seller and if that card shows up in another auction I'll be opening a scamming case with eBay.

At this rate, I'm never going to be able to get a V3 card for a reasonable price. Is one glide capable card without spending $50+ dollars too much to ask in this world?

🤣 No fraud has been commited. Or scam for that matter since you got your money back. Scams and Frauds tend to leave people out of money as well as time.

No one is legally obliged to sell you anything. And ebay can't do jack since they are simply a middle man. The only thing sellers not selling and buyers not buying does is waste users time and have a bad reflection on the 'middle man'. In this case ebay.

This isn't necesserily true, listing an item on eBay requires agreement to a policy and a winning bid on eBay is a contractual obligation, so not shipping the item, pretending it got lost and just offering to refund the payment simply because you did not like the going rate is indeed fraud and against eBay policy, the sales contract and probably legally an offense.

Are you telling me there are people in prison or have been persecuted for failing to send something they listed on ebay, and instead issued refunds?

Fraud = "Personal Financial Gain". "Gain" is important here. No one has gained anything in this case. Buyer was refunded (lost only time), seller did not sell the item, is left possibly slightly out of pocket due to listing fees (maybe not, depends on local ebay policy). Ebay hasn't lost anything if they get the listing fees, if they fail to secure their listing fees then they have simply lost the value of their 'services' they gave the seller for the sale (which are hyper inflated/value added anyway).

Also in-terms of 'legal'. There are two distinct duristrictions, Civil and Criminal... At most a civil law may have been broken. Doubt it though, since there has been no finanical "gain". A contract has been broken, but since neither party is left out of pocket it would not be worth phone call even ringing no-win/no-fee lawyer to persue this.

P.S Can't speak for your country. But in my country, as far as a I know, it is not illegal to NOT sell something, and no one has gone to prison or been persecuted by ebay, for failing to sell something they listed...unless they took the money and ran, then its between ebay and seller and would go through a Civil court (not Criminal court, unless it was escalated) and it is indeed fraud. But in either case, nothing to do with the buyer who has simply had their time wasted and logs on to a internet forum to unload... o.0

@AbandonwareGuy I feel for you mate, but I'm sure I'm not alone in saying we have all (mybe not all) been there o.0 call it a life experience 😉

[EDIT:] typos

Last edited by spiroyster on 2017-07-25, 10:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 17982 of 52340, by yawetaG

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^ People have been banned from Ebay for selling something for too low a price, then claiming the item was lost (refunding the buyer), and then putting the item back for sale for a higher price. The contract-thing is reality, and applies to both buyer and seller.

Reply 17983 of 52340, by Cyrix200+

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Cool, never seen that before!

Rawrl wrote:
Cyrix200+ wrote:

Finding a buyer will be hard since it is so specific, but you should try!

So how does that AGP work? I can figure out how to put a card in, the backplate would hit the motherboard right? Of am I just not seeing it right?

MCGA wrote:

Wow, they want like 800 bucks for that! 😖 I don't have that cable, but I'm going to see if there's any software on the HD. I wonder if there's really a market for this thing given it's so old?

It's an AGP slot. I was confused about it at first, but it's listed as such on the side panel and also labeled on the board. And there's a removable back plate for the VGA port. 😀

digital_5000_agp_port.jpg

The card probably has a cutout and a shortened backplate to fit around the motherboard. Compaq did something similar around the same period.

http://www.vgamuseum.info/images/palcal/ati/r … oagpcompaqb.jpg

1982 to 2001

Reply 17984 of 52340, by spiroyster

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yawetaG wrote:

^ People have been banned from Ebay for selling something for too low a price, then claiming the item was lost (refunding the buyer), and then putting the item back for sale for a higher price. The contract-thing is reality, and applies to both buyer and seller.

Yeah banned from ebay, but thats it, thats all that can be done as thats all the power ebay has, since no one is left out of pocket....There is reason why the police don't pursue it further? Because no scam or fraud has been commited.

What ebay do with their policies are their business. If people break them, is not down to the police to pursue it unless there has been a crime. Not selling something you listed and instead issuing a refund is not a crime, just pisses off the broker (ebay).

Reply 17985 of 52340, by appiah4

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spiroyster wrote:
yawetaG wrote:

^ People have been banned from Ebay for selling something for too low a price, then claiming the item was lost (refunding the buyer), and then putting the item back for sale for a higher price. The contract-thing is reality, and applies to both buyer and seller.

Yeah banned from ebay, but thats it, thats all that can be done as thats all the power ebay has, since no one is left out of pocket....There is reason why the police don't pursue it further? Because no scam or fraud has been commited.

What ebay do with their policies are their business. If people break them, is not down to the police to pursue it unless there has been a crime. Not selling something you listed and instead issuing a refund is not a crime, just pisses off the broker (ebay).

It is a contract and ebay could potentially sue bc it loses them money when a transaction is fraudulently cancelled and bc it hurts their image when buyers feel cheated. They are out of money.

They dont.

But that doesnt mean they cant.

The winner can sue bc they were denied an irreplacable deal which was contract bound. They bought asset x at price y but that asset can be bought for y+ now. They are out of money.

They dont.

But doesnt mean they cant.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17986 of 52340, by spiroyster

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appiah4 wrote:

It is a contract and ebay could potentially sue bc it loses them money when a transaction is fraudulently cancelled and bc it hurts their image when buyers feel cheated. They are out of money.

Why is it 'fraudulently cancelled'? Theres that word again. Please look up the definition of 'Fraud'. There is no gain. The seller has not duped the buyer out of anything other than a good deal which is only happening because of the seller. The transaction did not happen.

They dont.

Wonder why? If ebay is providing a platform for timewasters then thats ebay's image to fix. Sueing users of the website because it gives the website a bad image isn't a great model. Onus is on ebay to provide a 'better'/'safer' platform (if its really a problem users concern themselves with).

But that doesnt mean they cant.

I could sue next doors cat for shitting my garden. A seller with a good lawyer could probably sue ebay over their 'legal' policy. The ability for someone to sue someone else isn't authorised by ebay policy o.0

The winner can sue bc they were denied an irreplacable deal which was contract bound. They bought asset x at price y but that asset can be bought for y+ now. They are out of money.

How are they out of money? Transaction didn't go through, nothing has changed hands. They didn't *buy* anything.
You might want to stay away from dealing in shares and the stock market, because I'm sorry to break this to you, but thats capatalism!

You seem to think that its some god given right to buy something listed on ebay? If you pay for it, then yes you have a legal right. If you pay and money gets given back to you (in full), you have no right to pursue anything further. Maybe sue for loss of time, and since your life is timed, the seller is killing you.

Reply 17987 of 52340, by appiah4

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I dont think you understand what a contractual obligation is or entails so Ill stop arguing here.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17988 of 52340, by spiroyster

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appiah4 wrote:

..Ill stop arguing here.

boring.... I'll finish it then. o.0

Here's a linky that will help you understand from non-other than the devil themselves. http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/cancel-tran … on-process.html

devil wrote:
When you need to cancel a transaction, it's good practice to first contact your buyer to let the buyer know you're canceling the […]
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When you need to cancel a transaction, it's good practice to first contact your buyer to let the buyer know you're canceling the transaction and why.

You can cancel a transaction:

Up to 30 days after the sale.

Even if your buyer has already paid for the item or requests to cancel it.

tbh I don't know what 'contractual obligations' you are referring too? If there are any, I suspect you misunderstand at what point those 'contractual obligations' come into force, and under what circustances they become invalidated.

Reply 17990 of 52340, by appiah4

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spiroyster wrote:
boring.... I'll finish it then. o.0 […]
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appiah4 wrote:

..Ill stop arguing here.

boring.... I'll finish it then. o.0

Here's a linky that will help you understand from non-other than the devil themselves. http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/cancel-tran … on-process.html

devil wrote:
When you need to cancel a transaction, it's good practice to first contact your buyer to let the buyer know you're canceling the […]
Show full quote

When you need to cancel a transaction, it's good practice to first contact your buyer to let the buyer know you're canceling the transaction and why.

You can cancel a transaction:

Up to 30 days after the sale.

Even if your buyer has already paid for the item or requests to cancel it.

tbh I don't know what 'contractual obligations' you are referring too? If there are any, I suspect you misunderstand at what point those 'contractual obligations' come into force, and under what circustances they become invalidated.

Did you even read the content you linked to? Like, until the end?

When you list an item, you enter into a legally binding contract to complete the transaction if the item is sold. If you cancel the transaction, there could be other negative ramifications. See the eBay User Agreement.

*roll eyes*

Now considering all eBay legal disputes are handled in a Court of Law in England (as per the user agreement), go read up on English Contract Law. Then come back and we'll discuss.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17991 of 52340, by Jade Falcon

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appiah4 wrote:

I dont think you understand what a contractual obligation is or entails so Ill stop arguing here.

Its called breach of contract and depending on the type of breach and the contract it can lead to litigation and large fines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_contract

but if the seller refunds you in full I don't see any court approving case on something bought on ebay other then maybe a house, land or a car.

Reply 17992 of 52340, by spiroyster

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appiah4 wrote:

Did you even read the content you linked to? Like, until the end?

Yep, including the bit that says "See User Agreement". Have you seen that?

Here's some snippets:

eBay does not have possession of anything listed or sold through eBay, and is not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. The contract for the sale is directly between buyer and seller.

Translation: It all boils down to a simple contract of sale between buyer and seller. Can be anything that both parties decide upon. If one party decides otherwise, no contract. If this is done mid-sale (i.e buyer has paid), seller is under 'legal obligation' to refund or send item within time alloted by the 'contract' loosely written up by ebay (acting as a minimal repsonsibility broker).

While we may help facilitate the resolution of disputes through various programmes, eBay has no control over and does not guarantee the existence, quality, safety or legality of items advertised; the truth or accuracy of users’ content, listings or feedback; the ability of sellers to sell items; the ability of buyers to pay for items; or that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction or return an item.

Translation: A seller could list absolute bollocks and ebay is not repsonsible.

You agree that we will commence supplying our services to you as soon as you accept this User Agreement. You can cancel this User Agreement under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. We may recoup the cost of any services provided up to the point of cancellation.

Translation: I can cancel at any point, like after someone has put a winning bid on my auction and I'm not happy about the price it went for. ebay may charge me what they see fit.

appiah4 wrote:

Now considering all eBay legal disputes are handled in a Court of Law in England (as per the user agreement), go read up on English Contract Law. Then come back and we'll discuss.

I would do, but given the level of understanding you have demonstrated in regards to the matter... I get the distinct impression I would be wasting my time.

I think I see what might be going wrong here. That 'legally binding' contract thing you are talking about is not what you think it is. It's 'legally binding' meaning if any problem should arise from the transaction, the transaction itself is recognised in a court of law (if it ever got that far), and not just Bob's word against Dave's that a transaction has taken place. It's still a transaction if the item was sold, and seller returned, but it is a transaction whose resolution and conduct can be tracked and thus used as evidence. The evidence will say a refund was issued and the judge will say, "well then, you have execised your 'purchasers rights' by getting the refund... wtf are you doing here in my court".

@MMaximus
Apologies, I thought we had finished.

Reply 17993 of 52340, by appiah4

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There is so much wrong in your interpretation, not the least of which is that since eBay thinks it's OK with THEM as a middle man for you to walk away from a deal that it should be OK for the Buyer as well. eBay is not a party to your sales contract with the buyer and can't give less of a damn, they are only approving it with regards to your use of their service from their point of view as a service provider, but they are only warning you that by walking away from a deal you are breaking a legally binding contract with the buyer and might get into a lot of trouble. Obviously, that goes over your head. Good luck to you in your future business endeavors, I advise you better legal counsel than yourself.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17994 of 52340, by nforce4max

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TheAbandonwareGuy wrote:

My V3 that I got for $15 BIN mislabeled as a rage xl was mysteriously "lost" by the sellers mail carrier and never made it to the post office. I was refunded and I'm pissed about it. The seller lost nothing, they realized they sold something at a fair, non scalping value and committed fraud by not honoring the legally agreed upon price.

I'll be watching that seller and if that card shows up in another auction I'll be opening a scamming case with eBay.

At this rate, I'm never going to be able to get a V3 card for a reasonable price. Is one glide capable card without spending $50+ dollars too much to ask in this world?

This is why some of us are hoarders to avoid being take for a ride financially in later years as over paying because a few degenerate got greedy and wanted everyone else to pay for a new lamborghini. There is a way of getting a "cheap" voodoo 3 besides knowing oem part numbers and that is always scrounging lots. Sometimes older pc shops will have one or two hidden in a parts bin somewhere in the back.

On a far away planet reading your posts in the year 10,191.

Reply 17995 of 52340, by Skyscraper

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Core 2 Extreme QX9650 3.0Ghz - SLAN3 (10 years in a few months so it's at least old 😜 )

The CPU ended up costing about 43 euro including shipping which I find a decent price.

New PC: i9 12900K @5GHz all cores @1.2v. MSI PRO Z690-A. 32GB DDR4 3600 CL14. 3070Ti.
Old PC: Dual Xeon X5690@4.6GHz, EVGA SR-2, 48GB DDR3R@2000MHz, Intel X25-M. GTX 980ti.
Older PC: K6-3+ 400@600MHz, PC-Chips M577, 256MB SDRAM, AWE64, Voodoo Banshee.

Reply 17996 of 52340, by spiroyster

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appiah4 wrote:

There is so much wrong in your interpretation, not the least of which is that since eBay thinks it's OK with THEM as a middle man for you to walk away from a deal that it should be OK for the Buyer as well. eBay is not a party to your sales contract with the buyer and can't give less of a damn, they are only approving it with regards to your use of their service from their point of view as a service provider, but they are only warning you that by walking away from a deal you are breaking a legally binding contract with the buyer and might get into a lot of trouble. Obviously, that goes over your head. Good luck to you in your future business endeavors, I advise you better legal counsel than yourself.

hmmm... nope. There is only one thing that is obvious to me from this conversation.

Rather than just say stuff, do you have any links? you know like evidence? like legal case studies where this has happened? you say yourself ebay doesn't give a damn and its between buyer and seller? How does this translate into a legal obligation for seller to go through with it and not allowed to simply refund the money no questions asked (if they have sent the item, then thats the sellers problem to get it back)? Standard rights to buyers say they can return stuff upto like 28 days. No questions asked (but you knew that being so au fait with english consumer rights?). Unless ofcourse otherwise stated in the contract of sale, which, as we know ebay don't want to be responsible for, and then theres that little snippet your probably so familiar with given the types of auctions listed here (sold as is, no returns) because thats the legally binding bit that tends to matter, not "I'm selling something, now that I have told the world, I must sell it what ever offers I receive".

Some free advice: It's better the world think you're a fool, than open you're mouth and remove all doubt.

With that formality out of the way, what is the correct interpretation of which you speak? And I think it should go without saying that you need to provide evidence. o.0

Reply 17997 of 52340, by TheAbandonwareGuy

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Skyscraper wrote:

Core 2 Extreme QX9650 3.0Ghz - SLAN3 (10 years in a few months so it's at least old 😜 )

The CPU ended up costing about 43 euro including shipping which I find a decent price.

Still a good processor. You could modern game on it easily if combined with a good motherboard and GPU. Games haven't really increased in CPU demand a whole lot since 2012. Games actually became better optimized for quad core usage after 2013 when the new gen consoles had came out.

Cyb3rst0rms Retro Hardware Warzone: https://discord.gg/jK8uvR4c
I used to own over 160 graphics card, I've since recovered from graphics card addiction

Reply 17998 of 52340, by dexvx

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Jade Falcon wrote:
Its called breach of contract and depending on the type of breach and the contract it can lead to litigation and large fines. h […]
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appiah4 wrote:

I dont think you understand what a contractual obligation is or entails so Ill stop arguing here.

Its called breach of contract and depending on the type of breach and the contract it can lead to litigation and large fines.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_contract

but if the seller refunds you in full I don't see any court approving case on something bought on ebay other then maybe a house, land or a car.

Technically, since the seller clearly titled the auction as an ATI Rage XL, that is all the seller was obligated in sending.

Reply 17999 of 52340, by i486_inside

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appiah4 wrote:
http://image.bolterandchainsword.com/uploads/gallery/album_11505/med_gallery_60983_11505_116329.jpg Time to hunt some 256Kx16 SI […]
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med_gallery_60983_11505_116329.jpg
Time to hunt some 256Kx16 SIMMs to upgrade this to 2MB

Can it use EDO , if it can I found these cheap on eBay , ~$6 shipped for 5 ICs. http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-MT4C16270DJ-5-MICRO … WkAAOxyDo1Tj1qa