VOGONS


were/are the Voodoo 4 and 5 even worth owning?

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Reply 20 of 60, by fitzpatr

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EdmondDantes wrote:

Glad to hear the V4/5 still works fine with DOS games... if I were to ever seriously want one, being bad for pure DOS would be an immediate turn-off.

My Windows 98se rig is built to handle as many oldschool games as possible, from old CGA RPGs up to whatever it can handle with its hardware. That's why I never replaced its Soundblaster 16 despite becoming more aware of its shortcomings ever since hearing what an Audigy 2 sounds like, because any potential replacement risks breaking compatibility with the legion of DOS games my SB16 (ISA) supports naturally.

I actually never knew not all video cards were DOS-compatible until just recently, and now that I do know its always an issue if I'm ever seeking one for the sake of this particular PC.

I chose to not make a compromise and run both! My Super7 runs either a Sound Blaster 16 or a Sound Blaster Pro 2, as well as a Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS. DOS exclusively uses the ISA card, and in Windows, I can choose depending on circumstances.

MT-32 Old, CM-32L, CM-500, SC-55mkII, SC-88Pro, SC-D70, FB-01, MU2000EX
K6-III+/450/GA-5AX/G400 Max/Voodoo2 SLI/CT1750/MPU-401AT/Audigy 2ZS
486 Build

Reply 21 of 60, by SPBHM

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Justin1091 wrote:
SPBHM wrote:
lvader wrote:

It’s often overlooked how good the Voodoo 3/4/5 are good with old 2D dos games, very compatible with clean and crisp output. The MAC DVI verion of the 5500 has the best DVI DOS 2D compatibility of any card.

the only problem really that I have with my 4500 PCI is with some lower DOS resolutions running with some sort of "artifacts", like vertical lines...
but it seems so specific and the card works completely fine outside of that, so I don't know if my unit is defective or what... but it's one of the main reasons that I want to use something else with my P3.

No, your card is fine. My V5500 has the same with 7th Guest. I did read somewehere that it's possibly an AGP setting in the PC BIOS (sideband addressing or something) but I don't know about it.

well my card is PCI, so AGP settings shouldn't really be a factor?

well, was the problem that you noticed similar to this?
https://youtu.be/KZus7xE7_Ww

Reply 22 of 60, by jheronimus

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I would say that V5 is pretty useful, yes.

I've decided to try a V2 SLI setup with my latest build, but quickly realised that a V2 is not a great Direct3D card. There are some late 90s games that don't have a Glide mode — for example, the original Jedi Knight, Lego: Rock Raiders or X-Tension. I've upgraded my AGP Matrox G250 to a GeForce 2 GTS (should handle any 90s game just fine), but it still means that with many games I have to specify my output device at every launch.

I also had issues with Unreal Gold. I've tried to choose GeForce to test it in 32-bit color, but the game restarted with severe lags (like single digit FPS in intro scenes) and after that it just crashes at every single restart attempt.

With my V5 I wouldn't have any of those issues, really. It's the fastest Glide card available (except for V5-6000, of course) and a fairly decent Direct3D card for almost anything released in the 90s.

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Reply 23 of 60, by The Serpent Rider

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There's zero issues with properly patched Unreal Gold.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 24 of 60, by doaks80

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

There's zero issues with properly patched Unreal Gold.

Which you should be probably playing on a Savage4 anyhow. Save the voodoo for UT.

k6-3+ 400 / s3 virge DX+voodoo1 / awe32(32mb)
via c3 866 / s3 savage4+voodoo2 sli / audigy1+awe64(8mb)
athlon xp 3200+ / voodoo5 5500 / diamond mx300
pentium4 3400 / geforce fx5950U / audigy2 ZS
core2duo E8500 / radeon HD5850 / x-fi titanium

Reply 25 of 60, by The Serpent Rider

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playing on a Savage4

You don't need that piece of junk. S3 pack was adapted to work with any DXTC compatible card a decade plus ago. Unreal engine games are generally bad justification to use any S3 or 3dfx card. Unless you really want to go full retro and use Voodoo 2.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 26 of 60, by jheronimus

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

There's zero issues with properly patched Unreal Gold.

I'm kind of guessing that using the latest NVIDIA drivers with GTS support was also not the best idea and I might have to try some other version. I'm getting minor artifacts in Rock Raiders that I didn't get with Matrox

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Reply 27 of 60, by doaks80

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

playing on a Savage4

You don't need that piece of junk. S3 pack was adapted to work with any DXTC compatible card a decade plus ago. Unreal engine games are generally bad justification to use any S3 or 3dfx card. Unless you really want to go full retro and use Voodoo 2.

Yes I really like going full retro, and much earlier than the voodoo2 😉

k6-3+ 400 / s3 virge DX+voodoo1 / awe32(32mb)
via c3 866 / s3 savage4+voodoo2 sli / audigy1+awe64(8mb)
athlon xp 3200+ / voodoo5 5500 / diamond mx300
pentium4 3400 / geforce fx5950U / audigy2 ZS
core2duo E8500 / radeon HD5850 / x-fi titanium

Reply 28 of 60, by appiah4

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The Serpent Rider wrote:

playing on a Savage4

You don't need that piece of junk. S3 pack was adapted to work with any DXTC compatible card a decade plus ago. Unreal engine games are generally bad justification to use any S3 or 3dfx card. Unless you really want to go full retro and use Voodoo 2.

Junk? The PCI version is a very nice Socket 7 3D card IMO..

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 29 of 60, by EdmondDantes

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fitzpatr wrote:
EdmondDantes wrote:

My Windows 98se rig is built to handle as many oldschool games as possible, from old CGA RPGs up to whatever it can handle with its hardware. That's why I never replaced its Soundblaster 16 despite becoming more aware of its shortcomings ever since hearing what an Audigy 2 sounds like, because any potential replacement risks breaking compatibility with the legion of DOS games my SB16 (ISA) supports naturally.

I chose to not make a compromise and run both! My Super7 runs either a Sound Blaster 16 or a Sound Blaster Pro 2, as well as a Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS. DOS exclusively uses the ISA card, and in Windows, I can choose depending on circumstances.

how do you do that without running into resource conflicts in Windows?

Admittedly its tempting to try, since I do have a spare Audigy 2 (not ZS... not sure it matters) and I'm sure that even games like Riven would benefit from it.

Reply 30 of 60, by The Serpent Rider

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The PCI version is a very nice Socket 7 3D card IMO

They are not nice, just okayish, if you can snatch one for cheap price.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2019-01-17, 09:22. Edited 1 time in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 31 of 60, by Revolter

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cyclone3d wrote:

Anyway, there are some games that look better with Glide when compared to the D3D version.

meljor wrote:

A lot of games that support Glide and direct3d look better with glide

What are those, exactly? I've yet to encounter a single one (obviously if you do not count the games where it's either Glide or plain software rendering) for some reason.

appiah4 wrote:

The PCI version is a very nice Socket 7 3D card IMO..

I second that - the DOS game compatibility and 2D quality were on par - if not better than - with V3-V5 for a fraction of the cost.

However, I have a reason to believe they do not work on 430VX chipset due to being 3.3 volt -only cards (while working fine on later boards). At least such was my experience...

Celeron 800, 512MB, GeForce2 MX, ES1938S/DB S2, Windows ME/DOS 6.22

Reply 32 of 60, by The Serpent Rider

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However, I have a reason to believe they do not work on 430VX chipset due to being 3.3 volt

They work just fine, even with SIS based 486 boards.

the DOS game compatibility and 2D quality were on par - if not better than - with V3-V5 for a fraction of the cost.

Lately prices started to shift into not so favorable territory. Not on Voodoo level, but dangerously close to GeForce/Radeon PCI.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2019-01-17, 09:22. Edited 1 time in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 33 of 60, by Tetrium

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EdmondDantes wrote:
So just everything got me wondering. […]
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So just everything got me wondering.

It seems whenever the Voodoo line is discussed, the early stuff is where its at (to use a deliciously 90s term). I see no end of youtube videos and forum discussions talking about how Voodoo graphics literally changed the face of gaming, how SLI was so awesome, and very often I'm told that for compatibility as well as graphics, the Voodoo 3 is the best one-size-fits-all solution (As good as any one-size-fits-all ever is, anyway).

But I almost never hear about the Voodoo 4 or 5 except about how they were the last cards 3DFX made and didn't compare to other cards out at the time.

So like... I basically want to ask two things:

First of all... is there anyone here who bought a Voodoo 4 or 5 when they were new? If so, what was your lived experience at the time?

Secondly, from a modern perspective is there any reason a person might want a Voodoo 4 or 5 besides collector value/prestige? Like, what's it like in actual use?

Thanks for indulging my weird whims!

One could say that the outside world has gotten the Voodoo bug 😜

I'm not so sure about how the Voodoo was as revolutionary as you are suggesting it is to be presented. It was however certainly a big thing when the Voodoo 1 and Voodoo 2 were new and glide was a thing.
Especially Voodoo 1 did change gaming, but there were so many things that did. And not all is about just the graphics, the sound experience is perhaps just as important, just to name something else.

I never had a Voodoo when it was new, but one friend had the Voodoo 1 and another had a Voodoo 3 and I had always had a soft spot for 3DFX.
I can even still remember my amazement when I learned that 3DFX went belly up 😵

And of course if you don't own at least 1 of every Voodoo (1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) you will remain just a mere pleb for all of eternia 😐

No but really 🤣, I never felt the need to actually use any Voodoo past the Voodoo 3s that I have used and their relative rarity was back then already a reason for me to not want to experiment and be too careless with the few ones I did have.

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Reply 34 of 60, by doaks80

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My memories at the time the Voodoo Banshee was about the coolest thing in the world a kid could have, and the V2 especially SLI was more like Ferrari that only rich kids had.

And anyone remember the mythical 21" Sony Trinitron? That was pretty much God.

k6-3+ 400 / s3 virge DX+voodoo1 / awe32(32mb)
via c3 866 / s3 savage4+voodoo2 sli / audigy1+awe64(8mb)
athlon xp 3200+ / voodoo5 5500 / diamond mx300
pentium4 3400 / geforce fx5950U / audigy2 ZS
core2duo E8500 / radeon HD5850 / x-fi titanium

Reply 35 of 60, by SirNickity

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Back in the day, there was a Voodoo-based Creative Labs 3D Blaster card in an ad. They had some screenshots of a flying game and a FPS. It was the first time I had seen a 3D game (aside from the software-rendered DOS stuff like Doom and all). It blew my mind. I was like... whuuuutt?? That's a SCREEN SHOT?

I eventually got a Voodoo 3 card with AV in/out on a breakout box. Aside from the quasi-3D Mystique, this was my first 3D card. Running the 3D Mark demos at the time was a revolutionary moment for me.

I went back through my collection of old parts to dive back into 486-era hardware, and thought I still had a VLB card. Turned out it was some kind of 3dfx board, but I didn't recognize it as my AV card, since it had a VGA out on the slot bracket. It didn't have the name printed on it anywhere, so I just started Googling for which 3dfx card had two GPUs and a power connector on the back. As it happens, I had a fully-functional Voodoo 5 5500 AGP sitting in a box that I didn't know about. I vaaagguuueelly remember being asked to trade my Voodoo 3 TV for something back in the early Pentium III days. So it either came from that trade, or it was handed down to me by someone that upgraded to something better. I can't recall.

At any rate, that's why I own a Voodoo 5. I just happened to have one. If I didn't, I would probably use a TNT or some other perfectly functional 3D card that works in a 3V AGP slot in my Pentium II. The Voodoo series unleashed a tidal wave of changes to the PC gaming scene, but other than that... it's just a meh 3D card that was quickly overshadowed by a gazillion better options. The reason to own one is strictly the satisfaction of that experience 20 years ago. If you missed that sea-change, by all means... go with something garden variety that is 1/10th the cost.

Reply 36 of 60, by EdmondDantes

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Tetrium wrote:

And of course if you don't own at least 1 of every Voodoo (1, 2, 3, 4 and 5) you will remain just a mere pleb for all of eternia 😐

... I didn't know He-Man and the Masters of the Universe had anything to do with late-90s PC graphics cards, maybe that's the true secret of Castle Grayskull? (Would explain why Skeletor wanted the place so badly--he just wants to play some Glide games!)

Reply 37 of 60, by villeneuve

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2019-01-14, 19:38:

playing on a Savage4

You don't need that piece of junk. S3 pack was adapted to work with any DXTC compatible card a decade plus ago.

Are S3 textures possible on non-S3 hardware with the original renderers (D3D, Glide, iirc also OpenGL) or just the community developed renderers? Do the latter even work on period correct +~5 years newer hardware?

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2019-01-14, 19:38:

Unreal engine games are generally bad justification to use any S3 or 3dfx card. Unless you really want to go full retro and use Voodoo 2.

Do you mean that due to the community developed renderers or do you have the same opinion when just staying with the original renderers?

Is all the above the same for original Unreal and Unreal Tournament?

Sorry if this is too OT!

Reply 38 of 60, by matze79

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The Only Reason to own a V5 is the L33t Factor or if one wants play Glide Games on High Resolution.
Its a Card born out of Despair.
Not having a fast enough Graphics Chip .. and overcoming this by using multiple of it on one Card.

If it would released in 1999 it would really a great Card.. but.. yeah you know it came too late.

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https://www.retroianer.de - german retro computer board

Reply 39 of 60, by The Serpent Rider

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villeneuve wrote:

Do you mean that due to the community developed renderers

Yes.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.