VOGONS


First post, by kjliew

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The challenge is to provide comparison between Host and Guest with the same game/benchmark, different native builds of the same game/benchmark are fine, if they are available. Or, run it with Wine on Linux host. All kinds of virtualization on any machines (desktops, laptops or servers in the attic/garage) are accepted. No restrictions on Host and Guest OSes as long as the Guest OS has 3D acceleration. PCI-passthrough with different Host and Guest GPUs is OK.

I will start off with QEMU (as usual). I hope that I am able to see results from VMware/VirtualBox/Parallels or even exotic commercial setups such as VMware ESXi and Microsoft Hyper-V RemoteFX. I really hope that I am not the only one to participate. 😉

Huawei Matebook D 14 (AMD) Ryzen 2500U
Host OS: 64-bit Windows 10 Pro build 19042.906
Guest OS: 32-bit Windows XP
QEMU 5.2.0 WHPX
3DMark03
Host: 33245
Guest: 20109

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Reply 1 of 7, by robertmo

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But 1fps is enough to read the story when saving often 😉

Not really a joke as I completed Pył in dosbox on first cheap phenom 😉

Anyway you gonna be good when you provide some results from that game on a real hardware

Last edited by robertmo on 2021-04-05, 05:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 2 of 7, by Jo22

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That's awesome - I'm looking forward to it! 😃!

I used to play games in VirtualBox with the experimental 3D support for Win XP guests that was based on WineD3D.
- On vintage hardware (PCs with AMD Athlon 64 X2, AMD E-350 APU etc).
It was over ten years ago.

I really wonder how it compares on todays hardware and to the final 3D support that works with Aero Glass on Win Vista onwards.

Edit: I can't participate, I'm sorry. I have no real PC anymore, just a Pi 4.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 3 of 7, by mr.cat

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Nice idea! I rarely do any benchmarking, but at least this provided me with just enough motivation to sort out some problems I had with virgl 😁
There are many combinations that could be used, but it seems qemu is the one I most often reach for as the primary choice...
So here's the results for my puny iGPU:

Intel i3-3220T iGPU (with some Asrock mobo):
Host OS: 64-bit Linux Mint 20
Guest OS: 64-bit Linux Mint 20
QEMU 4.2.1 (Debian 1:4.2-3ubuntu6.14) KVM+virgl
3DMark03 v3.6.0 1901, wine-5.0 (Ubuntu 5.0-3ubuntu1)
Host: 8052
Guest: 5784

Wine-stable and qemu were both installed via apt. 3DMark03 was run with Wine 64-bit prefix and the same Wine version in both cases, and needed -nosysteminfo to work.
I used the instructions provided at winehq, but in qemu it would just crash with qemu's default core settings.
These extra parameters were needed: -smp 2,sockets=1,cores=2 -device virtio-vga,virgl=on -display gtk,gl=on

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Last edited by mr.cat on 2021-04-09, 22:04. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 7, by kjliew

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@mr.cat That's a great result. It is probably limited by the old generation of Intel HD iGPU without the support of iris Gallium3D driver. I am a great fan of mobile iGPU. It pained me so much in the past when Intel filled this segment with craps. AMD marketing was at complete failure even though they had a great competitive offerings albeit lower CPU performance (the 'cat' cores). NVIDIA was barred to compete in this segment with an iron fist.

QEMU official virgl 3D acceleration is always great. I always wish for one day that RedHat will bring WHQL-certified virgl GPU driver to Windows 10. Microsoft is spurring ahead with Hyper-V with upstream MESA driver that mapped to host Direct3D12 for WSL2 and Linux VM with the ambition to rule the cloud bare-metal hypervisor.

Reply 5 of 7, by mr.cat

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They've come a long way for sure. To me it's impressive that it's working at all 😁
The performance does feel "good enough" already when compared to host, too bad it's limited to Linux for the moment.

EDIT: Added the Wine version. I did try to limit customizing to a minimum here, to make it easier to reproduce the setup (but it's Wine, so there's always *something* app specific).
An additional note if anyone's trying this: If you can't get it working with gtk, give sdl a try.

In addition to virgl and qemu-3dfx, I've also seen an another method mentioned as a means to gain 3D acceleration: xpra and virtualgl. Any results for those could also be interesting.
AFAIK they're meant for remote connections (TurboVNC was mentioned), but perhaps there is a way to get a performance boost when used locally?
The setup seems quite involved though.

Last edited by mr.cat on 2021-04-12, 07:41. Edited 3 times in total.

Reply 6 of 7, by kjliew

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It could be better for the audience if you could add Wine version (vanilla vs staging) to the post, too, for those who wish to recreate your results.
Yes, the goal is comparing "Host vs Guest" and the result is really great. Thanks! 👍

Reply 7 of 7, by kjliew

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robertmo wrote on 2021-04-05, 05:22:

Not really a joke as I completed Pył in dosbox on first cheap phenom
Anyway you gonna be good when you provide some results from that game on a real hardware

Well, since Pyl does not have timedemo feature built-in, one can always correlate the results using other games with source-ports that support timedemo to compare real DOS with DOS virtual machine. Quake2 DJGPP source-port is a good candidate. Different machine for real DOS is fine, I guess it would be disadvantage for the real DOS machine to harness modern CPU/GPU, while VM has the disadvantage of DOS being "unfriendly" to be virtualized.

I hope it won't annoy hardcore retro PC fans for building the "ultimate" 3Dfx PC for DOS games. 🤣