Neither S3's S3D (ViRGE chips) nor ATI's CIF (Rage up to Rage Pro) are emulated yet so games with native support for whatever chip is in your system might look better on the Presario than in DOSBox.

Another point would be 3d games that will only run with Windows 9x (probably not that many, at least if you ready to install patches and use workarounds). Even though it is possible to run Windows 98 within DOSBox (or MS Virtual PC etc.) you will not get any 3D acceleration. Although to run 3D Windows games I'd use a faster PC, especially a better video card.

Can't say anything about the games you mentioned, sorry.

I would not get rid of it, especially if you don't have any other machines you intend to do retro gaming on.

There is room for a Voodoo card in the PCI slot. Get rid of the modem ISA card and get a cheap ISA Ethernet card to hook it up to your home network. The S3 Virge is great for old DOS games and you have enough RAM and CPU power to run all the early 3D games and late DOS games.

I also think it is more fun to play old games on the real hardware compared to DOSBox (even though it's a great program). How you feel about older hardware compared to playing in DOSBox is up to you, but the later DOS games will run better on this machine in high resolutions compared to DOSBox on your modern machine.

Thanks for the advice, vetz and idspispopd.
@idspispopd: You mention getting a faster GPU to run newer Windows 98 legacy titles, but also mention that ViRGE chips and Rage Pro chips don't have emulation in DOSBox yet.

Choosing a better video card might be the start of a new enthusiast build if I were to get into it. I'm worried I might to start going overboard by putting more money into a vintage build than I could with a newer build.
@vetz, can you give me some advice on building an enthusiast vintage rig, if I were to start from scratch? What a performance rig is for vintage games can be different from a modern Best of the Best rig. I guess the main thing is to find the best performing piece of hardware that remains compatible with as many legacy games as possible, up until the latest date possible. Then I'd weigh that against whether a modern BotB rig could emulate it as well, and what the minimum stats would be to match that performance, or is there no way any modern parts can match the performance of the vintage components: general example: would it take a socket 2011-gen CPU or would a 1355-gen suffice? Would it take 64GB of PC10600 DDR3, or would 32GB be enough? Would a single nVidia 680 GTX be able to match a Voodoo 2 and S3 Trio64V (I'm giving these only as broad figures of the stats as a point of reference of a sample high-end modern rig in emulation versus a vintage high-end rig with original components). I also wonder if it would be best to jerry-rig older components into a modern high-end rig through adapters (assuming it didn't cause a loss in quality), and set up a virtual OS installation where DOSBox cannot compete with the older hardware. I'm trying to livestreams of the playing or create a recording of it, which is not going to be possible with old equipment.

Mau1wurf1977 made a video showing that not all General MIDI is the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MpnZlOJIqw
While there is an audible difference between the two (I'm still not sure which sounds like it has a wider dynamic range with less of a muffled sound, and more unsure where I could buy the kind of Roland setup Mau1wurf1977 has and how I would set it and the Yamaha NEC up in a dual-card setup (he talks about it in the video, but I'll probably end up doing a forum search for it for more details); if I had to flip a coin, I think it would more likely land on the Yamaha side, but Mau1wurf1977 makes a good argument for the accuracy of the Roland setup and for a dual-card setup), I'm looking for equipment that doesn't color the raw audio at all, and whatever is closest to that is the best. While choosing the right sound canvas would unquestionably make a difference in a vintage build, is the Windows General MIDI available in DOSBox "cleaner" than either sound delivery system, or is there no such thing as a default due to the mastering done by the game makers?

Your Compaq is similar to how I started out with mine. It is a good start!

You will certainly be spending less money into your vintage rig than upgrading your current system, but then again, if you play modern games you'll get some extra benefit with the new parts. I don't know what you have atm, but I hope you're not considering upgrading solely because of some few retro games. It boils down to if you like the hardware part of retro gaming or not. For me personally it is a very big part of it! To get your Compaq up to speed doesn't need to be expensive, so maybe you can do both? Your Compaq already have the S3 Virge card where the 2D part is the same as the Trio64, the same chip DOSBox is based on. The compatibility is great, and it is quite fast in DOS.

What I was thinking:
- PCI slot: Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2: These can be gotten pretty cheap from Ebay or other vintage trading forums. Expect 10-20 dollars if you are a bit patient. If you are more into DOS games which doesn't use 3D accelerated graphics, then skip this for later.
- ISA slot 1: You mention MIDI is important to you and you've seen Mau1wurf1977 video. The problem with the Roland external devices is that you can expect to pay 75-100 for one, making it a bit expensive, but on the plus side it can be connected to modern Win7 computers and used in DOSBox. I also personally like the Yamaha for the games I play (later DOS games) and it is also the cheapest to acquire. The NEC XR385 (a clone card of the Yamaha) costs 30 dollars on Ebay, which is the cheapest route for good quality MIDI. Since it is an internal MIDI daughterboard you need a sound card to connect it to which is not possible with the integrated ESS card you have atm. If we're going cheap and you need something that is giving alot for it's money I would recommend a card based on the CMI8330 chip (one at Ebay atm for 10 dollars). It supports the XR385 without any issues. You could also get a Soundblaster 16, but here you need specific models (like the CT2230) to not get the hanging note bug on MIDI music (loads of threads on this one).
- ISA slot 2: Get a network card here.The 3COM cards are plenty ful and cheap. Saves alot of time when you can just transfer files directly to the machine from your modern computer.

It is only the later DOS games that requires a powerful computers with DOSBox, like Duke Nukem 3D in very high resolutions or Screamer Rally (lagging on my Core i5 laptop in 640x480!). I now see there is GoG.com releases of those games, so maybe they run better. When it comes to emulation, almost any modern video card can run nGlide (3DFX Glide wrapper) which makes you able to play Glide games in much higher resolutions and image quality than originally intended. When it comes to MIDI music on modern computers and DOSBox, using the BASSMIDI driver is a great option. Then you can load soundfonts (like WeedGM from R.Nagel here on the forum) which sounds very good and sometimes better than the original Roland/Yamaha hardware devices.

Capturing from old equipment is possible either through S-video (not so good quality) or through VGA capture (better quality), though these options require more money to setup.

I have no interest in the hardware involved in retro gaming, just in what it can do. I'm working backwards from what I need to play a game in its purest form but with the most headroom in performance. The thread on The Natural Evolution of a Retrogamer mentions that the final stage in the evolution is using DOSBox; if it can be done with free software at the exact same level of quality as the hardware, or better in some cases, then I would rather do it that way. I can't really change CPU cycles, frame skipping, audio frequency (e.g. from 44.1k to 48k), or resolution in physical hardware the way I can with emulation. There's also mods that have been done with Win9x and DOS games that require a lot of hard drive space and performance from the hardware (like Quake), and that provide bug fixes and other graphical improvements to the game. I'm still in stage 1 of the evolution, where I want to be able to play every MS-DOS and Win9x game ever (I really only have about two dozen DOS titles if I don't stop to think about their names). I'm different in that I want the best performance of any generation. I want to be able to run Metro 2033 with all of the settings maxed out and X-COM: TotD modded on the same system in the same day, even if it takes a dual-partitioned drive running a virtual OS build of MS-DOS 7.1 to get there. One problem is that I don't know how much performance it's going to take to run emulations--e.g. is a system that can run Battlefield 3 at 113fpsgoing to run into the same audio lag during 48k bitrate Dark Forces play as a retro build?

I'm also looking for a technique that can capture in YUV 4:4:4 in 1920x1080 (or as close to it as the aspect ratio of the game will allow, like 1776x1080 for 16:10 content, or 1440x1080 for 4:3 content) at 60fps in a losslessly compressed codec, and that could be streamed live to a gaming streaming site (this last part can be eliminated, since recording quality takes precedence over the live broadcast component).

Video seems like it can be handled by DOSBox, but it's only theory as to how well it can handle complex DOS games at high resolution on a high-end system. I could ask someone on Overclock.net to try a retextured and modded version of a high-performance game like Duke Nukem on a high resolution to see what kind of issues they run into.

The sound side continues to pose a challenge, since there is no agreement on the rock-paper-scissors of which sound card, sound canvas, daughterboard, sound font, or emulation to get. I can't figure out if Windows' General MIDI is weighted no differently than WeedGM or whatever the latest sound font from ocremix or newgrounds. I'm looking for whatever sound gives me the un-remixed, original version of the sound, if there was one. If the XR385 or the Roland SC-55 Mk. II represent the un-altered version of the audio, it might be worth it to go with that rather than sorting through several hundred different sound fonts to find one that sounds the least unofficial. I have an Audigy 2 ZS PCI sound card, but I don't know if it has the right connectors to hook up to the Yamaha daughterboard. It has a 15-pin MIDI I/O connector.
http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=2602[/url]

I know the rig I have might be a good start, but I wonder about the descent into madness that researching and buying upgrades could lead to. Then again, crazy can be cool. If I were to go down the upgrade route, I'd want to try to find the thing that plays every old game, up until the point where compatibility limits any further upgrading. I think of things in terms of the best of its iteration--If my K6 300MHz is fine, why not a K6-III+? And since I'll need a board to overclock and underclock, I'll have to change that part out too, get some RAM for it, make sure the PSU can keep up, get SLI going...
I'm fine with doing this, but it looks like it's going to be around $1000 to get a performance legacy setup going (which isn't that much compared to some of the components overclock.net users are buying).

I think this is getting philosophical...

Some random thoughts:
I'd say your system is nothing special. In particular it is not very flexible, you'd best use it as it is. (Small power supply, no AGP, integrated ViRGE with 2MB, only one free PCI. Is that a K6-300 as opposed to a K6-2-300?)
If you are going for a performance retro setup most people here seem to prefer PIII or Athlon builds, preferably with at least one ISA slot for a Sound card. That shouldn't be too expensive since boxes from that era are relatively common. Socket 7 is getting less common, 486 are quite rare now. (I think about the only interesting older part that's not exactly cheap would be a Voodoo 5.)
So you could as well try the games you are interested in with DOSBox and on the Presario and decide if it's worth keeping.

Regarding my comment on video cards: I think the only game exclusively accelerated on ViRGE is Terminal Velocity. I'd say just try it but it seems you can only download the standard shareware version, not an accelerated one (full version is 6$ on GOG), and I don't know if you'd need more than 2MB of video RAM.

Regarding recording/broadcasting gameplay in high resolutions: There are several people here who wrote about their experiences with video capturing, as Vetz already wrote. Unfortunately Full-HD at 60fps is out of reach AFAIK. OTOH, most old games don't support such high resolutions, and if they do they will need a much faster system that it was available at the time when the game was released so this would not exactly be authentic. And I don't think you will be able to run games at these resolutions in DOSBox anytime soon, or only when emulating 3dfx/Glide like Vetz wrote.

Regarding Quake or Duke Nukem: I understand you insist on using the original DOS executables? For these games there are more modern implementations. Even the original GLQuake should run fine on a modern system.

idspispopd wrote:

Regarding my comment on video cards: I think the only game exclusively accelerated on ViRGE is Terminal Velocity. I'd say just try it but it seems you can only download the standard shareware version, not an accelerated one (full version is 6$ on GOG), and I don't know if you'd need more than 2MB of video RAM.

There alot more than that 😉 Check out the complete list in my The Ultimate 3D Accelerated Supported Games List (Early proprietary APIs - NO Direct3D/GLIDE) thread.

I still think this Presario, while alittle inflexible can run all DOS games that would be required with good performance, which was the original question. I can't think of a game that won't run very well, except maybe Quake in very high resolutions, but here as idspispopd mention you have modern versions. With a Voodoo card you can run all the DOS 3DFX games better than you can with nGlide/Dosbox, especially the statically linked games. One thing this machine won't do very well is Win9x games from 1998 and up. Here you almost need a Pentium 3 system. Some Win9x games can be tricky to get working both in XP and Win7, and there are no virtualisation software which supports Direct3D rendering under Win9x.

Regarding BASSMIDI, just download it and WeedGM soundfonts on your computer. Get the midi files from the popular games and compare yourself. The are recordings of the real hardware on Youtube from vogoners

vetz wrote:

There alot more than that 😉 Check out the complete list in my The Ultimate 3D Accelerated Supported Games List (Early proprietary APIs - NO Direct3D/GLIDE) thread.

OK, I didn't memorize the whole list, and it doesn't say if there is a Glide port for any of the games. (And of course ports for NV1 and CGL/VLB can't be used by most people because of the rare cards and VLB.) I already started to put the list into a spreadsheet with an additional Glide column to get a better overview.
(No offense meant, I appreciate your efforts, great job! I understand why you didn't want to clutter the list with Glide games. I'd just like to have an overview where I can see at a glance which ports exist for a certain game, or which cards are most "useful". I'll probably include information about Direct3D, OpenGL and DOS/Windows for those games.)

Thanks for all of the responses. I read through them several times, followed the links, and have watched several of Mau1wurf1977's videos. The main thing the system has going for it is the Virge S3. Most of the games in vetz' list are games I have no interest in playing; the games I am interested in have been ported, emulated, or patched to my own personal standards.

The main draw of the current system is the Virge S3. The Virge S3 PCI sells for around $25 and Win98 CDs with product keys sell for around $10 (I could also extract the product key from the 2256 using Magic Jelly Bean). I could install Win98 to a partition or run it through a VM; my motherboard enables underclocking, which could probably bring the speed down to a K6 if needed. The only issue would be Win98 compatibility with modern hardware. I've even had XP OS drives BSOD on an FM2 board and only boot into safe mode (but this was enough to get what I needed from the drive before returning it to its original host system); any incompatibility issues would be addressed on an as-needed basis--it's not a topic I have researched heavily, since it has been several years since I've played the games I have with exclusive WinXP or earlier OS support.

With that in mind, I have decided to sell the 2256 and have listed it for sale. I won't mention the sale price of the 2256, post a link to the sale, or ask for permission to do either unless a mod proactively approves of it. If anyone is interested, they'll PM me anyway. It will probably show up in search engines.

Darn, I was hoping you'd of kept the Presario - a simple hardware solution to dos/early win9x gaming. I even like the ESS AudoDrive; good all around compatibility and decent enough sound.

The 2256 failed to sell. I'm giving it away if anyone wants to pick it up in the Louisville, KY area.

It might seem now that the Presario 2256 is not perhaps what you need but, in a couple of years from now, you could end up kicking yourself for giving away your old machine. As the years go by, these type of hardware will become rarer and rarer.
I gave away an old 486 of mine and today I want to kick myself (fortunately, I was able to secure a replacement).
If the Presario 2256 is not in your way and you have no need for it now, rather put it in storage. You never know, you might need it in a couple of years 😀 .

Also, I've played around a bit with various hardware and software. Some games written in the late 80's and early 90's don't run too well on Pentium I's and faster machines (even if you disable your L1 or L2 cache).
Hence, why I've build up different retro machines, depending on the era those games were developed. That way, I know my games will run on the respective machine like it was intended to (without having to struggle for days, trying to figure out what settings to disable and enable).

Keep it! The Win98 system in my sig is based on a Presario 5441. That I snagged at the local salvage yard along with a bunch of misc ram and 2 power supplies for 10 bucks. I bet the old owner didn't realize someone would give it any future love!

It pains me to say this, but I would let it go.
If you have no interest in hardware, dosbox will suit you well enough. Win9x games are a bit harder but from what I undersatnd you havea work around to can play those anyway?

Put it on freecycle, craigs list or whatever. You wont get much for it but someone will take it sooner or later, even if its just to strip it down.

It's been more than two years since the start of this thread; I've yet to play a game that hasn't been compatible with emulators; gog has released the Wing Commander and LucasArts space flight sims; I own Fallout and Tomb Raider on Steam; After consideration of whether I wanted to get invested in Zork, I've decided that it doesn't appeal to me as much as some other adventure games I'm interested in that are available on gog or Steam or will be released in remastered form soon (Grim Fandango, the Monkey Island series, and several of Double Fine's early games). I've gone through several lists of late 80's to mid 90's games trying to see if I'm interested in any; the ones I am interested in have emulation, even if it's shoddy. If in fact I do need a legacy build, I'd rather do a DiY build once I have an idea of the type of legacy games I'm interested in. Sorry, jesolo, I can't justify keeping it; it needs someone to use it, I'm not that person.

I'm inclined to give it to Goodwill and let others value it. I've never sold anything on Craigslist despite several dozen listings of things. I'll try freecycle for a week. If there are no hits, I'll go with Goodwill.

If you feel you have no need for it, then I agree. Rather give it to someone who can probably make good use of it 😎

Never give Goodwill retro gear like this as it usually gets destroyed for scrap metal and it is very rare to find anyone who knows anything about computers in general at an advanced level. Give it or try to sell it on Craigslist, if all else load it full of 9X games then someone will want it. Laptops from the same time aren't cheap and so oem desktops like this will eventually be desirable.

Never throw away retro gear or donate retro systems to Goodwill, I know how they do things. Whole pallets of systems like this go to the scrapper and most of the time no one checks over anything for rares.

List it on www.vintage-computer.com, www.amibay.com, www.cpu-world.com, www.oldcomputers.net as well. Good luck.

I actually think that the important point here, is that if you're not genuinely into the hardware, then yes, Dosbox will most certainly yield more than adequate results for playing retro games.
There are some advantages to playing on genuine retro hardware, sure, but it does take up space, cost money and once you get bitten, you'll know that one just isn't enough 😉
I agree with PeterLI though. Make sure to list it on some enthusiast websites as well, because it would be a shame if it got recycled (destroyed) rather than going to somebody who might love owning a real old system.

😀