VOGONS


Reply 40 of 53, by Azarien

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-15, 18:09:

This one works perfectly, allowing 800x600 with 24-bit colors. Not sure if there are any Win 3.11 programs that can actually use that color depth

Paintbrush 😀

Reply 41 of 53, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Azarien wrote on 2022-05-11, 16:15:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-15, 18:09:

This one works perfectly, allowing 800x600 with 24-bit colors. Not sure if there are any Win 3.11 programs that can actually use that color depth

Paintbrush 😀

Heh, I hadn't thought of that!

On the other hand, I do have some vague memories of using either an early version of ACDSee or some other image viewing program under Windows 3.11 as a kid. I think it allowed me to view pictures in 24-bit color, if they were created like that of course. I could be wrong though, as it's been a long time since then.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 42 of 53, by lnino

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hi Joseph,
I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache.
So I think I need to flash the bios.
Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.
All links I found are not active.
greetings
Nino

Reply 43 of 53, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 13:44:

Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.

I think I downloaded mine from here.

If that doesn't work out, I can check if I still have a copy on my PC. However, I'm currently on a business trip, and I won't be back home for some time.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 44 of 53, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Idk if it’s been mentioned but OP noted that the 166 is sometimes too slow for some of the games. A possible solution is that some 166mmx chips came with a unlocked 3.5x multiplier. It’s rare. But some have it. And most p55c mmx chips are stable up to 250-290. Some even up to 330mhz on air

lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 13:44:
Hi Joseph, I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache. So I think I need to flash the bios. Do […]
Show full quote

Hi Joseph,
I have the same mainboard, but I cannot see the option Disable L1, L2 Cache.
So I think I need to flash the bios.
Do you still have the file 5bt-1b7.bin somewhere? I cannot find it in google for download.
All links I found are not active.
greetings
Nino

See if central tweaking unit works for you. It’s a program that works in win 9x/me

I use it on my k6 chips, but haven’t tried it on a pentium.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 45 of 53, by lnino

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-01, 14:11:

I think I downloaded mine from here.

If that doesn't work out, I can check if I still have a copy on my PC. However, I'm currently on a business trip, and I won't be back home for some time.

Thanks a lot. I will try to download it.
Which tool are you using for flashing the bios firmware?

greetings Nino

Reply 46 of 53, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
lnino wrote on 2022-06-01, 19:59:

Which tool are you using for flashing the bios firmware?

I think I used an older version of AWDFLASH from 1999 or so.

Don't remember exactly though, and I can't check until I get back home.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 47 of 53, by gdjacobs

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2021-06-06, 10:17:
CPU-Z.jpg […]
Show full quote

CPU-Z.jpg

And here are some benchmarks. Basically, I get Pentium at full speed, a 486DX2-66 at the next speed level (CCD), a 486DX-33 after that (L1D) and lastly a 386DX-25 (L1D+L2D). I could probably fine tune this even further by applying slower memory timings in the BIOS, downclocking the CPU to 133 MHz and using some of the other test registers. But truthfully, the current slowdown range covers my needs quite nicely. Big thanks to Gerwin for developing the excellent SetMul utility which makes all of this possible!

Bench2.jpg

Now for the Voodoo1 benchmarks under Windows 95:

file.php?id=112961&mode=view

All game benchmarks were carried out using 16-bit color depth. Game versions used:

  • Quake1 v1.08 (software rendering)
  • GLQuake1 v0.97 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
  • Quake2 v3.20 (with 3DFX miniGL v1.49)
  • Unreal v2.25 (Glide renderer)

OS and drivers used

  • Windows 95 OSR2.1 (no unofficial service packs or third-party patches)
  • DirectX 7.0a
  • Intel chipset drivers from this Soyo CD
  • 3DFX Voodoo1 v3.01.00 reference driver

I love these kinds of build. They're fantastically useful in terms of what they're capable of.

You're absolutely right that many of the test registers have little to no effect. The same issue is much more pronounced with the P54C (Socket 7 Pentium non-MMX). However, VPD+BPD and L1Dx would give you a couple more intermediate steps if you ever need to fine tune a bit further. I did a bunch of testing on the subject some time ago and found the Pentium MMX to be an amazingly versatile CPU.

file.php?id=34186&mode=view

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 48 of 53, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
gdjacobs wrote on 2022-06-03, 17:58:

I love these kinds of build. They're fantastically useful in terms of what they're capable of.

Cheers! I'm very happy with the gaming range that this setup covers. From 1990 DOS titles like the original Wing Commander to a few, selected 1998 Windows games like Final Fantasy VII. Not bad at all.

I did a bunch of testing on the subject some time ago and found the Pentium MMX to be an amazingly versatile CPU.

Thanks! I'll give some of these settings a shot in case I need to fine tune the slowdown range even further.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 49 of 53, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 . In other words, when CPU is bottleneck, you get 12 fps on voodoo1, and 15 fps on voodoo2.
I would choose voodoo2, maybe you lose compatibility in few titles, but you gain 800x600 and speed advantage. Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more. And that voodoo2 takes advantage of it, then you can play even games from 1998 and 1999. So you gain more universality, and also, 99% games profit from it (theoreticaly, with 2xvoodoo2 you can go even for 1024x768). What you gain with voodoo1? Compatiblity in like 10 games... not good tradeoff.

Reply 50 of 53, by Joseph_Joestar

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
W.x. wrote on 2022-06-11, 21:02:

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 .

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more.

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / OPTi 82C930 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 1700+ / Abit KT7A / Voodoo3 / SBLive / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3000+ / Asus K8V-MX / GeForce4 / Audigy1
PC#4: i5-3550P / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 650Ti / X-Fi

Reply 51 of 53, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:
This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful sy […]
Show full quote
W.x. wrote on 2022-06-11, 21:02:

Just a note, voodoo2 is bottlenecked by slow CPU less, than Voodoo1 .

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

Also, it's better to use Pentium MMX 233, and only underclock it to 166 MMX speed, so you can get advantage of overclock, when you need speed, you can go for 262.5 mhz, or even more.

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Honestly I’m curious about this,

The pentium overdrive claims that it goes from 2.5x? to 1x when you remove the fan.

I did a experiment with this on my pentium mmx overdrive 200 and the cpu does indeed get really slow and this even changes while on. It doesn’t require a reboot, but the bios still reports 200 mhz and so does cpuz.

I wonder if maybe on the mmx overdrive it isn’t somehow reporting right or it’s slowing it down another way.

But anyway, I haven’t tried changing the setting on any socket 5/7 cpus while the power was on that I recall.

If it works on one, that doesn’t mean it will work on another model. But it would be interesting to know the result. You know how to test it 😀

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 52 of 53, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

This is correct. A Voodoo2 would likely deliver much better frame rates even on this MMX 166. However, I have a more powerful system with a Voodoo3 (see signature) for more demanding stuff. I mostly use this MMX rig for DOS games and a few, early Win9x titles.

If you have more retro computers, not only one or two primary, then of course, it's reasonable to build also non-universal build, like historicaly correct ones, that are not fully effective. I thought you are limited only by one retro comp.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Yes, that's true, I thought you've got jumperless motherboards. Some of the TX motherboards are already jumperless, mostly by QDI and Abit, who started with this earliest. I've got QDI Titanium IB specialy for this. Then I've got PCChips TX motherboard unexpectably for around 3$ (untested), but it was working, and I've got shocked, it is jumperless too. Who would expect it from PCchips. It's PCchips M572. So i've keep it. But you're right, messing with jumpers, when you want to have Pentium 166, from 233, is annoying.

Reply 53 of 53, by Gmlb256

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
W.x. wrote on 2022-06-13, 23:35:
Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2022-06-11, 22:56:

Unless I'm mistaken, to downclock the MMX 233, I would need to use the jumpers on the motherboard. Meaning that this can't be done on the fly. Note that I'm specifically referring to lowering the frequency and not using SetMul to adjust test registers.

Yes, that's true, I thought you've got jumperless motherboards. Some of the TX motherboards are already jumperless, mostly by QDI and Abit, who started with this earliest. I've got QDI Titanium IB specialy for this. Then I've got PCChips TX motherboard unexpectably for around 3$ (untested), but it was working, and I've got shocked, it is jumperless too. Who would expect it from PCchips. It's PCchips M572. So i've keep it. But you're right, messing with jumpers, when you want to have Pentium 166, from 233, is annoying.

If the computer case has a turbo switch and the motherboard uses jumpers to configure the CPU multiplier (which Joseph_Joestar's Socket 7 computer lacks), the button could be strapped into the jumpers for setting the lowest CPU multiplier. It would require a hard reset to take effect, though.