Darkman wrote:

what are the best drivers to use with a Diamond Stealth II 220? Ive got one on the way in the post (should be here next week most likely, along with an Ensoniq Soundscape card), and Im wondering if there is any advantage to using older drivers compared to the latest ones (mostly in regards to games using the Rendition API).

The latest drivers are probably the way to go for the RRedline. RRedline games typically require a certain revision or newer.

According to the readme in the V2x00 Beta 5 driver the D3D part of the driver was all-new in that release. That sounds like something that could be buggy so I could see older drivers possibly being useful. On the other hand the readme claims this all-new D3D solves some longstanding problems.

OpenGL was always improving. The Beta 5 drivers have a solid OpenGL ICD.

swaaye wrote:

The latest drivers are probably the way to go for the RRedline. RRedline games typically require a certain revision or newer. […]
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Darkman wrote:

what are the best drivers to use with a Diamond Stealth II 220? Ive got one on the way in the post (should be here next week most likely, along with an Ensoniq Soundscape card), and Im wondering if there is any advantage to using older drivers compared to the latest ones (mostly in regards to games using the Rendition API).

The latest drivers are probably the way to go for the RRedline. RRedline games typically require a certain revision or newer.

According to the readme in the V2x00 Beta 5 driver the D3D part of the driver was all-new in that release. That sounds like something that could be buggy so I could see older drivers possibly being useful. On the other hand the readme claims this all-new D3D solves some longstanding problems.

OpenGL was always improving. The Beta 5 drivers have a solid OpenGL ICD.

I see, so overall its probably better to go with the latest (I downloaded the drivers from VOGONS , so it has that newer BIOS too if I need it)

the PC I want to use it with currently has a Matrox Mystique and a 3DFX Voodoo. in an ideal situation, I would like to run all 3 cards at once (Matrox for booting and running Windows, DOS and the Matrox enabled games, 3DFX for Glide and the Rendition for anything else) , but Im not sure how that will work. I would have dropped the Matrox but Ive been reading the Rendition is very slow when it comes to VGA DOS games.

it has a 300W PSU so it should handle all these cards just fine, but it might be an issue from a software perspective.

You could get yourself an AGP Rendition card and then switch the primary card in the BIOS setup ("Boot from AGP/PCI"), that's what I would do. (I know that they may be hard to find.)
According to the drivers: My experience with the Beta 5 drivers is that they were somewhat unstable, even on the desktop. When Putas had issues with his V2200 card I suggested to try another driver. I had read positive reports about both Hercules and Diamond drivers for their Rendition cards, and Putas had success with the Hercules ones (see http://vintage3d.org/verite2.php).
Of course it's possible that the newest drivers have some advantages in Direct3D or OpenGL games, but honestly there are much better cards for that available today. Even a Voodoo 1 is probably a better choice in most cases, if only because it was much more common and therefore better tested. IMO Rendition cards are most interesting for Speedy3D/RRedline.

One thing I'm sure of is that RRedline wasn't available with the earliest Windows drivers, even though Speedy3D already existed. That is probably a reason for Mech Warrior 2 not supporting Rendition while supporting just about all other major proprietary 3D APIs of the time frame.

swaaye wrote:

The latest drivers are probably the way to go for the RRedline. RRedline games typically require a certain revision or newer.

According to the readme in the V2x00 Beta 5 driver the D3D part of the driver was all-new in that release. That sounds like something that could be buggy so I could see older drivers possibly being useful. On the other hand the readme claims this all-new D3D solves some longstanding problems.

OpenGL was always improving. The Beta 5 drivers have a solid OpenGL ICD.

i had a few issues, i wonder if there are any workarounds?

1. v2200 with quake3, 3d graphics is okay, but the main menu screen flickers heavily, and the screen is split diagonally. this also happens with v1000 when triple buffering is disabled.
2. for v1000, there are two opengl ICDs: a "full" opengl and a "gold" minigl. the "full" opengl works with most opengl games i tested, but quake2 graphics is totally messed up. the "gold" minigl on the other hand works with only quake2.
3. for v1000, need for speed 5 porsche2000 managed to enter the main menu, but only two most simple tracks: zone industrial and monte carol can be played correctly. all other tracks failed to run, with the whole world missing and the car floating in the void. v2200 is fine with this game.

idspispopd wrote:

You could get yourself an AGP Rendition card and then switch the primary card in the BIOS setup ("Boot from AGP/PCI"), that's wh […]
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You could get yourself an AGP Rendition card and then switch the primary card in the BIOS setup ("Boot from AGP/PCI"), that's what I would do. (I know that they may be hard to find.)
According to the drivers: My experience with the Beta 5 drivers is that they were somewhat unstable, even on the desktop. When Putas had issues with his V2200 card I suggested to try another driver. I had read positive reports about both Hercules and Diamond drivers for their Rendition cards, and Putas had success with the Hercules ones (see http://vintage3d.org/verite2.php).
Of course it's possible that the newest drivers have some advantages in Direct3D or OpenGL games, but honestly there are much better cards for that available today. Even a Voodoo 1 is probably a better choice in most cases, if only because it was much more common and therefore better tested. IMO Rendition cards are most interesting for Speedy3D/RRedline.

One thing I'm sure of is that RRedline wasn't available with the earliest Windows drivers, even though Speedy3D already existed. That is probably a reason for Mech Warrior 2 not supporting Rendition while supporting just about all other major proprietary 3D APIs of the time frame.

you nailed the problem early in that recommendation . AGP Rendition cards seem to be hard to find. heck , Ive looked online and there wasn't a single Rendition card of any card on sale in Europe, one can find quite a few S3 Virge/Trio and ATI Rage II cards (no doubt due to them being in alot of OEM machines) and the occasional 3DFX or Nvidia card, but Rendition and PowerVR are very rare. I managed to find 2 cards, both in the US and both being Diamond Stealth II cards.

the other option I may go for if it doesn't go well , is use the Rendition card in my 1Ghz machine, it has a Voodoo5500 in the AGP slot so the AGP/PCI option would work better (the main issue is that the machine isn't really built for DOS , its using a Sound Blaster Live for a start, and is obviously very fast for some DOS games, which seem to work fine on the IBM Netfinity).

the third option Ive got is to use the ATI Rage IIc AGP card Ive got instead of the Matrox PCI, I would be losing some of the Matrox compatibility but gaining the ATI games instead , and the ATI 2D quality is pretty good overall)

AFAIK Rage Pro is much faster than Rage IIc and therefore to be preferred. (Have both, didn't try them yet. Don't know if Rage IIc is needed for some games.)
Re AGP Rendition rare: I just recently posted about one such card on the Ebay thread, but that one's gone now.
Unfortunately there are no Matrox AGP cards that support MSI, the Millennium 2 is very similar to the Mystique and available as AGP but doesn't seem to support MSI.

idspispopd wrote:

AFAIK Rage Pro is much faster than Rage IIc and therefore to be preferred. (Have both, didn't try them yet. Don't know if Rage IIc is needed for some games.)
Re AGP Rendition rare: I just recently posted about one such card on the Ebay thread, but that one's gone now.
Unfortunately there are no Matrox AGP cards that support MSI, the Millennium 2 is very similar to the Mystique and available as AGP but doesn't seem to support MSI.

Rage II is only needed for Actua Soccer/VR Soccer (see this post) and Mechwarrior 2, all other games can be played on the Rage Pro which is much faster. Wipeout and Assault RIgs (see videos on Youtube) are the two exclusive ATI games that really shine on the Rage Pro. Tomb Raider on ATI also is a very nice port, and it is running in Windows making you able to use WIndows joystick configuration with more buttons!

vetz wrote:

idspispopd wrote:

AFAIK Rage Pro is much faster than Rage IIc and therefore to be preferred. (Have both, didn't try them yet. Don't know if Rage IIc is needed for some games.)
Re AGP Rendition rare: I just recently posted about one such card on the Ebay thread, but that one's gone now.
Unfortunately there are no Matrox AGP cards that support MSI, the Millennium 2 is very similar to the Mystique and available as AGP but doesn't seem to support MSI.

Rage II is only needed for Actua Soccer/VR Soccer (see this post) and Mechwarrior 2, all other games can be played on the Rage Pro which is much faster. Wipeout and Assault RIgs (see videos on Youtube) are the two exclusive ATI games that really shine on the Rage Pro. Tomb Raider on ATI also is a very nice port, and it is running in Windows making you able to use WIndows joystick configuration with more buttons!

well given that one of the games I would use is Mechwarrior 2 that presents an issue, are there any fixes that let the game run on a Rage Pro?

I actually have a Rage Pro AGP card (or a variant of it, the 8MB LT Pro) . The problem is that the it won't fit in the Netfinity case (its got a very odd shape which only accepts a shorter backplate)

Darkman wrote:

well given that one of the games I would use is Mechwarrior 2 that presents an issue, are there any fixes that let the game run on a Rage Pro?

I actually have a Rage Pro AGP card (or a variant of it, the 8MB LT Pro) . The problem is that the it won't fit in the Netfinity case (its got a very odd shape which only accepts a shorter backplate)

It will run, but it does not run very well in terms of framerate and it looks like crap. See my Mechwarrior 2 comparison on Youtube. It is fixable (graphic and performance wise), but you'll need to manually configure the skygnd.par file and that is alot of trial and error to learn the values and set them right. It's a huge project, but doable if you have the time. Also it will benefit everyone else since they can just install your edited file.

Mechwarrior 2 on the ATI runs at 512x386 resolution. I would highly recommend to play the 3DFX, Matrox or PowerVR version, with the PowerVR version being the most superior one.

vetz wrote:

Darkman wrote:

well given that one of the games I would use is Mechwarrior 2 that presents an issue, are there any fixes that let the game run on a Rage Pro?

I actually have a Rage Pro AGP card (or a variant of it, the 8MB LT Pro) . The problem is that the it won't fit in the Netfinity case (its got a very odd shape which only accepts a shorter backplate)

It will run, but it does not run very well in terms of framerate and it looks like crap. See my Mechwarrior 2 comparison on Youtube. It is fixable, but you'll need to manually configure a file and that is ALOT of trial and error to learn the values and set them right. It's a huge project, but doable if you have the time. Also it will benefit everyone else since they can just install your edited file.

Mechwarrior 2 on the ATI runs at 512x386 resolution. I would highly recommend to play the 3DFX, Matrox or PowerVR version, with the PowerVR version being the most superior one.

of course, but as you've noticed Im in a bit of a bind , having 2 full PCI video cards + the 3DFX card might not be possible.

I would however be willing to stick with the 3DFX version of mechwarrior if it means having to use an ATI card instead of the Matrox. Although I have to say the 3DFX version can be a bit blurry at times

If you want to have the maximum number of supported API's in one machine at the same time, then go for:

1. Creative 3D Blaster PCI (Speedy3D, RRedline, CGL, Direct3D)
2. 3DFX Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
3. PowerVR (PowerSGL and Direct3D)

Then again the Rendition V1000 is not the best for DOS VGA games, so it might not be want to you want to do in practice. So basically you're back to your first list with:

1. Matrox Mystique or ATI 3D Rage II/Pro
2. 3DFX
3. PowerVR

You can't get all API's at the same time, just switch the main 2D card if you have a game you'd like to play with it. Personally I think the ATI 3D Rage Pro is a better choice than the Mystique in this case. They are about equal in DOS in terms of speed and compatibility. The benefit is that the exclusive ATI games are better (gameplay and graphics) than the exclusive Mystique games compared to the software versions.

vetz wrote:

If you want to have the maximum number of supported API's in one machine at the same time, then go for: […]
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If you want to have the maximum number of supported API's in one machine at the same time, then go for:

1. Creative 3D Blaster PCI (Speedy3D, RRedline, CGL, Direct3D)
2. 3DFX Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (Glide, Direct3D)
3. PowerVR (PowerSGL and Direct3D)

Then again the Rendition V1000 is not the best for DOS VGA games, so it might not be want to you want to do in practice. So basically you're back to your first list with:

1. Matrox Mystique or ATI 3D Rage II/Pro
2. 3DFX
3. PowerVR

You can't get all API's at the same time, just switch the main 2D card if you have a game you'd like to play with it. Personally I think the ATI 3D Rage Pro is a better choice than the Mystique in this case. They are about equal in DOS in terms of speed and compatibility. The benefit is that the exclusive ATI games are better (gameplay and graphics) than the exclusive Mystique games compared to the software versions.

sadly Ive yet to actually find a Creative 3D Blaster , so a Diamond Stealth II is what I can get , PowerVR would certainly be nice once I get a hold of it ,

like I said Im thinking that if the Matrox and Rendition don't get along for whatever reason, I might ditch the Matrox in favour of an AGP based ATI Rage of some kind (right now its the IIc, may upgrade to an AGP Pro if I get one in a bargain or if I can get the LT Pro to fit somehow).

idspispopd wrote:

According to the drivers: My experience with the Beta 5 drivers is that they were somewhat unstable, even on the desktop. When Putas had issues with his V2200 card I suggested to try another driver. I had read positive reports about both Hercules and Diamond drivers for their Rendition cards, and Putas had success with the Hercules ones (see http://vintage3d.org/verite2.php).

Now that you mention it, I think I too have used the Hercules drivers for some reason. Jedi Knight comes to mind.

Which one of the files in the S220 updates file is the latest bios update?

Not sure offhand. Looking at the archived Diamond page, it appears the latest BIOS on there is 1.36.

BIOS Update v.136 for Stealth II S220
https://web.archive.org/web/19990427053234/ht … alth2-s220.html

Finally managed to get that Diamond Stealth II 220 , using the 110 version of the Diamond drivers (I think thats what they are called), also updated the BIOS to 1.36.

Not a bad card, I like the image quality in 3D games, 2D is also quite nice, but obviously there are the problems with games like Doom (mysteriously other Doom-like games like Heretic & Hexen are fine). The AGP 8MB Rage Pro Turbo (this one has a half sized bracket so it will fit in this Netfinity just fine) which is on its way should do that job fine. I may keep the Voodoo connected to the Rendition , if the ATI is going to be primarily for 2D, I would want as little signal degradation as possible.

only 2 issues that keep on happening.

1)When running vQuake from Windows , the game occasionally gives me a black screen when exiting the game, the black screen just stays there , the PC wont respond, and it forces me to reset the machine. In DOS this doesn't seem to happen from what Ive seen. Not a huge deal obviously, though it would be nice to run it in Windows proper.

2) the Rendition patch for Whiplash doesn't work with Fatal Racing it seems, is there any Fatal Racing specific patch? or maybe a way to get this patch to work?

1) Are you running the latest version of vQuake, 1.08b?
2) No Fatal Racing specific patch as far as I know.

yes Im running 1.08 . It was the one that came with from the VOGONS driver library.

Here's a small collection of my Renditon cards. It's a shame to admit but I do not have any Verite V1000 cards... I've been trying to find one for a decent price for years but with no success so far... 🙁 any help here from your side guys? 😉
BTW, was there a Verite 1000 from Diamond Multimedia?

Lovely set of cards.

Sorry to hear you haven't been able to find a V1000. They are a bit rare indeed now. I have a Screamin' 3D and got it many years ago from eBay. No there was not a V1000 made by Diamond. The only Rendition card they did was the Stealth II V2100 card that was budget oriented.