VOGONS


First post, by carlostex

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I started to think a few days back, that i really wanna build a one time machine PC only. I definitely have the hardware for this, and i'm very excited about it. I recently found on eBay something really cool, a kind of a 3.5 inch drawer for sata notebook hard drives, it can take 2 of them. Plus since i really wanna use SD and SDHD cards, i also found one of those sata to SD adapters that comes in a kind of a SSD casing.

I plan to use DOS 6.22 on a industrial grade 2GB SLC flash based SD card and a 32GB SDHC or SDXC for Windows 98SE. This way i just swap cards for whatever system i want to run at the time. Either that or i just get another one of those nice SD adapters as there is room in the drawer for 2 of those adapters/SSD/HDD's that come in 2.5 inch format.

CPU: AMD K6-III+ 400/ATZ
MB: DFI K6XV3+/66 rev B+
RAM: 64MB PC100 SDRAM
VGA: Voodoo 3 3000 AGP
Sound: Audician 32 (Yamaha YMF-718-S) for DOS; i might use a Live! or Audigy PCI for Windows 98; Yamaha SW60XG for General MIDI
Storage:2GB SLC SD card for DOS; 32GB Class10 SD for Windows 98 SE
Other: Sillicon Image SATA RAID PCI controller
FDD: GOTEK USB Floppy Emulator
Optical: LG based Drive meant to use with CDBQ in DOS
PSU: LCPower LCP6550GP2, or LCPower LC420H-12 (with -5V rail) all ATX

Now, my main concerns are DOS, to play those games i love with Wing Commander requiring something as a 386DX25 to DX33, and Test Drive III that pretty much requires a DX16. Keeping in mind that i'm going to overclock this wonderful CPU for the Windows goal, i need some DOS tools to downlock it, to avoid annoyingly have to set up BIOS everytime i wanna play a game that requires different hardware configuration.

K6DOS.SYS: Excellent tool for changing the multiplier on the CPU while it is still running in Real mode. So it needs to be on the first line of config.sys
ICACHE: Tool to disable/enable internal cache on Socket 7 CPU's. On the K6+ series, i believe it will disable both L1 and L2.

With these tools i wanna use MS-DOS 6.22 boot menu to create different system speed profiles to properly play those speed sensitive games.

Now the problems:

The motherboard cache will still be on, and since i would like to do everything from DOS prompt, or config.sys/autoexec.bat/DOS prompt, i will need a DOS tool that disables external cache. Because i've noticed that the CPU will still be way too fast to play those games. As fast as a 486 DX CPU. I can go to the BIOS and disable it but it defeats the purpose of doing everything as i explained just above.

Is there any external/motherboard cache enable/disable tool that can be run from the DOS prompt?

Plus there would be some flexibility added, a DOS tool like CTUCLWIN, that allows to not only set multiplier, but to disable/enable certain features on the CPU including L1 and L2 caches separately!!! This tool only works in Windows 9x environment, unfortunately!

Another cool one would be a DOS tool for the possibility to change the FSB as well, as i suspect a K6+ with a 100MHZ FSB and a 2x multiplier and all caches disabled (including external), could still be too fast to play something like Test Drive III, which does need a really slow 386.

I was wondering if anyone in the community has the talents to code tools for DOS like the examples i give above. I have no idea if it's doable or not, or more important the amount of work needed.

Thoughts? Comments?

Reply 1 of 5, by Mau1wurf1977

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Hmm I would be surprised if such a tool exists...

Regarding FSB, the best you can hope for are some boards allow changing the FSB in the BIOS.

With CPU and mainboard cache disabled, it doesn't make a difference. 66 or 100 MHz: You have a 386DX.

So on a K6 the slowest you can get is a 386DX. Any slower and you can do things like slow down the RAM timings, use EDO instead of SDRAM. E.g. with EDO Ram you get a 3dbench score of 8, that is on the level of ~ 20MHz 386. The 16MB module in my time machine is such an EDO RAM. I haven't played around with RAM timings, but it seems to have a tiny bit of an impact.

Now if you went with a Pentium MMX, there is no way to get it slow enough. It's the "fastest" cacheless CPU...

With mainboard cache enabled (and CPU cache disabled) the FSB however has a huge impact. The higher, the faster the machine. On a K6 however you won't get much more than a 486DX. The K6 is the slowest "cache less" CPU, which IMO is good!

And for 3D games, just set the multiplier to 6x and you have quite the rocket 😀

Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rPhi9-ILHw

It has benchmark results as well.

3dbench database for reference: 3DBENCH CPU Benchmark Database

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
My YouTube channel

Reply 2 of 5, by carlostex

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FSB makes a difference, because it you use the same multiplier it forces your CPU to run at a lower clockspeed. However as i am testing just right now with a K6-2, i get the following results:

With all caches disabled, 83MHZ bus x 2 multiplier:

Score of 9650 Dhrystones on NSSI. This is equivalent to a 386 DX 33.

With all caches disabled, 50MHZ bus x 2 multiplier:

Score of 6570 Dhrystones on NSSI. This is slightly faster than a 386 DX 25.

With the additional slowdown with SoftMPU the system is now equivalent to a 386 DX 25.

I guess i have to give up on Test Drive III. Not too bad, my main focus is Wing Commander.

Reply 3 of 5, by Mau1wurf1977

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Loosen the RAM timings, and there are other chipset setting that slow things down.

And you can always purchase EDO ram (they still come in the SDRAM shape).

Also, have you tried Test Drive 3? Does it still run too fast?

My website with reviews, demos, drivers, tutorials and more...
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Reply 4 of 5, by rgart

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I recently made a k6-3+ 400 with an embedded chip running at 2.1 volts. Its an interesting platform but I havent had time to play yet.

=My Cyrix 5x86 systems : 120MHz vs 133MHz=. =My 486DX2-66MHz=

Reply 5 of 5, by carlostex

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Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Loosen the RAM timings, and there are other chipset setting that slow things down.

And you can always purchase EDO ram (they still come in the SDRAM shape).

Also, have you tried Test Drive 3? Does it still run too fast?

I'm not testing this on the Super Socket 7, as it is not finalized, but on a QDI Titanium IB+ Socket 7 with a patched BIOS to support K6-2's and K6+'s. And yeah i do know about RAM timings/latencies and bloody waitstates, but this will be very inconvenient because it does not serve my purpose of what i wanted to do.

About Test Drive 3, yes it is still not running perfectly, but almost there! So with some waitstates it would get there, but this is totally inconvenient. I would love to do everything with DOS prompt.

I believe a 100MHZ FSB x 2 multiplier will give me a speed equivalent or close to a 386 DX 40, which is still quite a bit for Wing Commander, i guess a bit to fast when nothing is around but playable when fighting the Kilrathi.

I have to check the DFI BIOS, to see if i can do the FSB there, which as far as i remember i can't. I think it's only done via switches on the PCB.

Just a side note, with this caching enabling/disabling thing we do, we can see how outdated and limited the x86 ISA is. I often wonder how computing today would be if IBM had chosen Motorola instead of Intel.