ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

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ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby QBiN » 2015-3-23 @ 16:51

There have been threads past and present discussing the -5V line present on ATX power supplies (ATX v1.2 and prior) and missing in later versions of the ATX spec. Newer power supplies lack a -5V which can cause much problems and failures for fans of retro systems. I was hoping to start this thread to document which ISA cards and other peripherals need -5V and the symptoms experienced when -5V is not available. I'm by no means the expert, but thought Vogons a great place for people to contribute what they know towards a comprehensive list. That's is something anyone looking to to build a retro system could benefit from.

ISA Cards:
  • Creative Labs CT-192x - AWE32 Upgrade ISA Card (aka "Goldfinch") - Symptom: Low / No Audio
  • Creative Labs CT-1350B (Rev 049151) - Sound Blaster 2.0 - Symptom: Low / No Audio
  • Roland LAPC-I - LA Synthesizer + MPU-401 Card - Symptom: No Audio from LA Part
  • Media Vision PAS16 - Pro Audio Spectrum 16 (650-0044 56B / FCC ID: IXW-PAS16NS) - Symptom: Incorrect Playback Speed / Timing Circuit Issues
  • Media Vision JAZZ16 - Jazz 16 (650-0066-02 / FCC ID: IXW-JAZZ16) - Symptom: Incorrect Playback Speed / Timing Circuit Issues
  • Media Vision Pro Audio Studio 16 - PAS Studio 16 (650-0052) - Symptom: Incorrect Playback Speed / Timing Circuit Issues
  • 3Com EL16/TP - Etherlink 16 TP, 16bit NIC - Symptom: ??

Let's keep the list going... I'll edit and update this post with any information that comes in the replies.


EDIT 23/03/2015: Added SB 2.0 Rev.4 and 3Com EL16/TP
EDIT 23/03/2015: Updated LAPC-I entry
EDIT 23/03/2015: Added/Updated MV PAS entries
Last edited by QBiN on 2015-3-24 @ 00:45, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby QBiN » 2015-3-23 @ 17:21

I've gone through most of my stash looking for cards I either know need -5V or I can visually verify have the B5 (-5V) ISA finger contact and are routing it to components on the ISA card.

I've also read certain Pro Audio Spectrum cards require -5V, but I don't have any to verify that.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby Harekiet » 2015-3-23 @ 17:35

I'd think most old cards with audio amplifiers and differential drivers would require the negative voltage rail.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby bristlehog » 2015-3-23 @ 18:24

QBiN wrote:I've also read certain Pro Audio Spectrum cards require -5V, but I don't have any to verify that.


Most PAS16 cards do. I have the original PAS and the very late PAS16 (Pro Audio 16 XL SCSI), they don't.

QBiN wrote:[*]Roland LAPC-I - LA Synthesizer + MPU-401 Card - Symptom: ??


Only MPU part works without -5V, the LA synthesizer part is silent.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby shock__ » 2015-3-23 @ 19:24

Harekiet wrote:I'd think most old cards with audio amplifiers and differential drivers would require the negative voltage rail.
Thing is a bunch of more modern ones actually derive it from the -12v rail (as does the OEM GUS I'm cloning).
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby jwt27 » 2015-3-23 @ 19:35

shock__ wrote:
Harekiet wrote:I'd think most old cards with audio amplifiers and differential drivers would require the negative voltage rail.
Thing is a bunch of more modern ones actually derive it from the -12v rail (as does the OEM GUS I'm cloning).


I think most "newer" ISA cards do this. It's much better, since a linear regulator like 7905 has very little noise compared to a switching converter. Cards with a chipset that doesn't need -5V (like YMF71x) still make their own +5V from the 12V rail for the analog parts.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby QBiN » 2015-3-23 @ 19:40

bristlehog wrote:
QBiN wrote:I've also read certain Pro Audio Spectrum cards require -5V, but I don't have any to verify that.


Most PAS16 cards do. I have the original PAS and the very late PAS16 (Pro Audio 16 XL SCSI), they don't.

Do you know which rev/models #'s of PAS16 require the -5V rail?
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby shock__ » 2015-3-23 @ 19:48

650-0044 56B (FCC ID: IXW-PAS16NS) seems to be one such candidate.

http://www.yjfy.com/images/oldhard/soun ... rum_16.jpg
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby shock__ » 2015-3-23 @ 20:00

650-0066-02 (FCC ID: IXW-JAZZ16) connects the -5V rail to the LF353N op-amp ... Symptom should be no audio/low volume on one of the outputs (seeing how this card supports its' own standard along with OPL3).

Will try to verify once I get my 486 shipped to my place.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby HighTreason » 2015-3-23 @ 20:33

Strangely my PAS Plus has the finger, but it goes nowhere... But it's a strange board, possibly an OEM version; has no joyport and instead has a big connector for a breakout box. It uses the -12V rail though and the amp is grounded only through the slot bracket.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby bristlehog » 2015-3-23 @ 20:36

QBiN wrote:Do you know which rev/models #'s of PAS16 require the -5V rail?


Problem is there's a giant bunch of PAS16 cards: old, new, with SCSI, LMSI, Sony or even no CD interface. A dozen of them or even more. I don't particularly know which ones are affected. But Cloudschatze once said that only the latest (650-0097) doesn't require -5V rail to operate properly. If he's right, then all others are guilty.

There are also PAS Plus (650-0014) which doesn't need the designated rail, and a shady card that I saw on ebay twice but missed the opportunity to buy: 650-0018. It resembles PAS Plus but has two jacks instead of three. It's unclear whether it is a late version of PAS Plus or an early version of PAS 16 (whose numbers usually start from 650-0022).
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby bristlehog » 2015-3-23 @ 20:37

HighTreason wrote:Strangely my PAS Plus has the finger, but it goes nowhere... But it's a strange board, possibly an OEM version; has no joyport and instead has a big connector for a breakout box. It uses the -12V rail though and the amp is grounded only through the slot bracket.


What is the 650-xxxx number of your PAS Plus?
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby HighTreason » 2015-3-23 @ 20:46

It says 650-0018 01-B. The 01-B is written in marker pen.

I will check my other cards for -5V.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby carlostex » 2015-3-23 @ 20:56

I own 3 Pro Audio Spectrum cards.

Pro Audio Spectrum Plus - 650-0014
Pro Audio Studio 16 - 650-0052
Pro Audio Spectrum XL - 650-0097

Both the Plus and XL do not require -5V but the Studio 16 does. The great majority of branded PAS 16 cards do require -5V.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby bristlehog » 2015-3-23 @ 20:58

HighTreason wrote:It says 650-0018 01-B. The 01-B is written in marker pen.

I will check my other cards for -5V.


Interesting. Have the pic? How do you know it's a PAS Plus, not PAS 16?
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby AllUrBaseRBelong2Us » 2015-3-23 @ 21:01

I have an ISA Soundblaster AWE64 (CT4520) and it must not require -5V since the PSU I'm using has no -5v rail.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby Cloudschatze » 2015-3-23 @ 21:30

bristlehog wrote:But Cloudschatze once said that only the latest (650-0097) doesn't require -5V rail to operate properly. If he's right, then all others are guilty.

Here's what I'd written about the affected PAS16 cards:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27549&start=20#p255043

Note the speed-related playback symptoms through the 8/16-bit CODEC when -5V isn't present.

HighTreason wrote:It says 650-0018 01-B. The 01-B is written in marker pen.

This is Media Vision's earliest CDPC interface card. It is compatible with the PAS+, as referenced in the PAS SDK, and was designed to connect to an external CD-ROM unit having built-in speakers, audio and MIDI I/O, and a joystick port.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby QBiN » 2015-3-24 @ 00:44

Cloudschatze wrote:
HighTreason wrote:It says 650-0018 01-B. The 01-B is written in marker pen.

This is Media Vision's earliest CDPC interface card. It is compatible with the PAS+, as referenced in the PAS SDK, and was designed to connect to an external CD-ROM unit having built-in speakers, audio and MIDI I/O, and a joystick port.

So does the CDPC card need the -5V as well? That wasn't clear to me in the posts.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby shamino » 2015-3-24 @ 02:51

Sound Blaster Pro CT1330A: does not need -5V. Finger B5 does not exist on the PCB.
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Re: ISA Cards & Devices Requiring -5V

Postby Cloudschatze » 2015-3-24 @ 17:58

QBiN wrote:So does the CDPC card need the -5V as well? That wasn't clear to me in the posts.

I don't have one with which to verify, but HighTreason mentioned that the bus finger doesn't go anywhere on the card, so it doesn't sound like it.
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