VOGONS


First post, by torindkflt

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I'm still in the process of gathering components to recreate a 486 computer system from my childhood. I'm trying to get it as close as possible to the original, which includes using the exact same brands and models of components, or if not possible, components that at least have the same features and functionality. I realize it is borderline impossible to get this build 100% identical to the original (I've already given up on finding a set of four matched 2MB 30pin SIMMs), but whatever can be matched will be matched.

That said, the one component I am having the most difficulty finding a match for is the sound card. The original system had a Reveal SC500 16-bit sound card. I remember from the drivers that it was "Sound Blaster Pro" compatible. The FCC ID is LCE-SC500R3, and it supposedly uses the CS9233-CQ, CS4112-CS, and CS4232-KQ chipsets (I say "supposedly" because the only website I can find with this info claims to have one for sale but appears quite shady).

Some other posts on the forums here suggest that Reveal cards in general are simply relabels, so it's possible I could find a feature-identical card under a different brand. So, I thought I'd ask the more knowledgeable folks here if you know of a suitable alternative. As I said, I'm wanting to get as close as possible to the original build, so I'm not looking for recommendations as to cards that are "better" or "have more features". I want a Reveal SC500 or feature-identical alternative with the exact same capabilities. Basically, if it'll work with the drivers for the SC500, that's the card I want.

I would appreciate any assistance with this, and also ask that you please bear with my lack of knowledge during this build.

Reply 1 of 17, by idspispopd

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Looking at Sound cards - from best to worst "ISA SOUNDCARD OVERVIEW":
gerwin basically lists the SC500 with the chips you mentioned (CS4232, CS9233, CS4112)
There is no other card in the list with CS4112. That chip is supposed to be a 1MB Wavetable Sample ROM so I don't think it will matter for compatibility/drivers.
There are some cards listed with both CS4243 and CS9233 (some Adlib, Terratec Maestro 32/96, CLMI 140, AOpen AW32 Pro).
The Terratec is not too uncommon on German ebay.

Reply 2 of 17, by torindkflt

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If I do have to use a different brand or model of sound card, I want to at least match the FM-synthesis-only MIDI capabilities of the SC500 (At the very least the one we had could only do FM synth despite having a wavetable ROM, it likely wasn't configured properly). I know that's a weird rationale, but I have some rather significant childhood memories that involved the specific style of MIDI our SC500 would generate, and I want to match that sound. As for the other audio functionalities, I'd be happy with standard 16-bit stereo that is only capable of playing one sound at a time, if that makes any sense (The SC500 would immediately stop playing a sound in progress if it is told to play a different sound by a different program, it won't mix them together like newer cards).

So, if it's primarily the SC500-type MIDI experience I'm after, which of the chipsets or other components should I pay most attention to? I have zero knowledge when it comes to stuff of this nature, unfortunately.

Reply 3 of 17, by alexanrs

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Did the Reveal SC500 have genuine OPL or a clone? Subjectively, if it had a clone the genuine OPL3 might not be what you're after. Other than that, any SBPro clone should get you similar capabilities (OPL+8-bit, and many also have a 16-bit WSS mode).
Also, most ISA sound cards can only play one WAVE/PCM sound stream. Any mixing had to be done in software. In Windows, any software that plays sounds through DirectSound gets software mixing from DirectX, any software that uses the older wave output functions do not.

Reply 4 of 17, by torindkflt

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If I'm properly reading the specs on the chipsets used by the SC500, it doesn't have any OPL3 support whatsoever, either genuine or clone. Unfortunately I cannot find any high-res pictures of the card itself (In fact the ONLY picture I can find on the entire internet is a thumbnail), so visual examination of the components on an SC500 is impossible unless anyone else here happens to physically own one.

Supposedly the SC500 was sold as part of a multimedia kit that included a 4x CD-ROM (I'd guess that's what was installed in our original Dream 486 tower), but searching for details on the multimedia kit isn't yielding any useful information beyond what is already known.

Reply 5 of 17, by alexanrs

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It probably had a discrete OPL chip. I suggest you get a few games you used to play and look for videos on YouTube (or ask for members here to record an audio clip) to see if genuine OPL sounds like what you remember.

Reply 6 of 17, by torindkflt

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I can do one better. I have an MP3 of a direct line-out recording of the SC500 playing a MIDI. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68314417/ … C500%20Midi.mp3

I don't even remember why I recorded this (If I had to guess it's because I hated how this particular MIDI sounded on newer computers)...but I'm glad I did!

Last edited by torindkflt on 2015-06-04, 00:38. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 17, by gerwin

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alexanrs wrote:

It probably had a discrete OPL chip.

I cannot find the spec sheet bit to quote, but the Dream 9233 Midi synthesizer chip can stand in as an OPL FM chip.
Edit, found it: CS9233.pdf page 12: "The CS9233 synthesis processor is also capable of FM synthesis"

The Terratec Maestro 32/96 is also configured this way, without a genuine OPL3, and that is the only real downside of this otherwise awesome SoundCard. The SAM9233/CS9233 FM sounds much smoother then a genuine Yamaha OPL chip, a bit like an organ. I have a recording, if anyone cares for it.

Here is a picture of an Ikon IK-1000 which has the same chipset as the Reveal card, though such a large BIOS is a rare sight on a soundcard. As far as sound and configuration are concerned, it should be exactly the same as the Reveal card.

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There are also similar cards but with a newer Crystal CS4236 or CS4237 instead of the CS4232. These newer chips have integrated FM circuitry branded 'Crystal FM' and will therefor no longer use the CS9233 for FM, or any OPL3 chip for that matter.

The only cards I know of that have the CS4232 paired with a Yamaha OPL3 are the Acer Magic S23 and the Turtle Beach Tropez Plus.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 8 of 17, by torindkflt

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Does the FM synth built into the 4236/4237 provide similar performance/sound as the separate 9233? If so, I'd be willing to go with one of those because they seem to be significantly easier to find.

Reply 10 of 17, by torindkflt

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So, it's looking like a Terratec Maestro 32/96 might be my closest match until I can find a genuine SC500, if that ever happens. Would you agree? There's a seller on eBay who has several Terratecs available, but their asking price is fairly high compared to most of the other ISA sound cards available on eBay. Granted it looks like a very high-quality card, so it certainly could be worth the $100 with shipping price tag. It's just...$100. 😵 Also, the rebuild is not going to be a "performance" or "high-end" 486, because the original never was. Thus, I think it would possibly be considered a waste for me to stick a high-end card into a low-end 486.

Reply 11 of 17, by idspispopd

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TerraTec is a German company so I don't know how common their cards are in other countries. On German eBay they seem to sell in the 30-50€ range.
I think $100 is too much. But then prices on US eBay fell very inflated compared to German eBay anyway.

Reply 12 of 17, by gerwin

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torindkflt wrote:

So, it's looking like a Terratec Maestro 32/96 might be my closest match until I can find a genuine SC500, if that ever happens. Would you agree?

It would be pretty similar, with these differences:
- Midi Wavetable has a 4MB Roland Clone patch set, and a Dream effects processor. Sounds really good. You will forget all about the 1MB set 😉
- It has a Waveblaster connector to allow for an addditional Midi Daughterboard. Theoretically you could even install a 1MB daughterboard to downgrade it to Reveal standard.
- The drivers are Terratec specific, especially the DOS driver is a custom job.

...and what idspispopd said, In this part of Europe they pop up once a while. Sometimes cheap, sometimes expensive.

--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 13 of 17, by torindkflt

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So, the Terratec has two MIDI generators then, am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case, then I presume it would just be a matter of selecting the Dream processor as the default MIDI source by configuring the drivers for such, right?

Reply 14 of 17, by alexanrs

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Unless the FM goes through the effects processor in either the Reveal or the Terratec cards I don't think you'd have to worry about it to get your nostalgia kick.

Reply 15 of 17, by gerwin

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torindkflt wrote:

So, the Terratec has two MIDI generators then, am I understanding this correctly? If that is the case, then I presume it would just be a matter of selecting the Dream processor as the default MIDI source by configuring the drivers for such, right?

The CS4232 has its own MPU-401 midi interface, which is directed to the waveblaster header, by default unoccupied -> no sound.
The CS9233 has its own MPU-401 midi interface, of course connected to the Dream midi synthesizer in the same chip.
You can enable both MPU-401 interfaces, but put them on different I/O addresses like 300h and 330h.

PS. it seems the Reveal SC500 'non-rev-3' is very different. Advertised as 'Sound FX Wave'.
And the Reveal SC600 'Sound FX Wave 32' is basically an Ensoniq Soundscape.

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--> ISA Soundcard Overview // Doom MBF 2.04 // SetMul

Reply 16 of 17, by torindkflt

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Well, I'm still keeping an eye out for a genuine SC500 Rev. 3, or functionally-suitable alternative that isn't a victim of eBayflation. In the meantime, I finally did manage to find a large picture of an SC500, it sold on eBay back in March as part of a lot with a 486 motherboard. I only managed by pure luck to find this by searching Google for the part number (21-008-018).

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If by random chance anyone happens to have one of these cards and perhaps just doesn't know it off-hand, the staggered positioning of the four CD-ROM interface connectors should make it visually stand out.

Reply 17 of 17, by skel2raw

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Maybe a little late to the game but I just made floppy images of the disks that come with the SC500 Rev.3A-1 and uploaded them to Vogons Drivers.

http://www.vogonsdrivers.com/getfile.php?file … &menustate=37,0