alexanrs wrote:

smeezekitty wrote:

(the 1000 and 1400 MHz processors)

You can get 1000Mhz coppermine CPUs can't you?

Yeah, but AFAIK they are harder to find and have no advantage over the Tualatin Celeron

Indeed, I purchased a 1ghz Slot 1 100mhz FSB Coppermine for my BH6. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't expensive either. I think I spent $40 on it. It is not natively supported by the BH6, but you can make it work by adjusting settings in the BIOS.

(Note: my BH6 is a rev 1.1 board. I assume it will work with earlier versions of the BH6 as well.)

boxpressed wrote:

KT7AGuy wrote:

USB 2.0 PCI Adapter - NEC Chipset
Use it with the unofficial Win98SE mass storage drivers package for faster and easier USB compatibility.
If you buy on eBay, make sure you're getting one with an NEC chipset. Some of the sellers out there sometimes have listings for NEC-based cards with a picture of a VIA-based card. Ask your seller just to be 100% sure.

I didn't realize that the VIA chipset was undesirable. I just bought a VIA model but haven't installed it yet. (Very cheap, so no big deal.) What is the problem with it?

AFAIK, there is no problem with VIA-based USB 2.0 adapters. However, supposedly, you can get the NEC-based adapters to work in DOS. I've never tested that so I can't confirm it.

I also have an ALi-based USB 2.0 + 1394 FireWire combo card that works great. Also untested in DOS. 😵

squareguy wrote:

Sound. I would buy a Sound Blaster 16, part numbers CT2230 or CT2290 for DOS and not look back. For windows I would use an Aureal Vortex2.

Yeah, I think your suggestion is better, especially if you get one of those DreamBlaster Synth S1 wavetable daughterboards. It's just the price that makes me recommend the AWE64 Value instead.

CT2230/CT2290 with DreamBlaster = ~$60
AWE64 Value = $10

Will the OP notice any difference? Probably not...

So I think I'm gonna go with a Pentium III 600mhz (Slot 1) for my processor, two Voodoo2s in SLI for graphics, 512mb of RAM, and an ABIT BH6 motherboard.

Few more questions:
Is a Netgear FA310TX any good for Ethernet?
With the Voodoo2s, should I put a Diamond Viper V550 Riva TNT or a different card?
Are their any good cases from the 90s anyone can point out?
Shouldn't I get something like a Sound Blaster Live!?
Any specific keyboard and mouse from the 90s that I should try and get?

BrAlZy wrote:

So I think I'm gonna go with a Pentium III 750mhz (Slot 1) for my processor, two Voodoo2s in SLI for graphics, 512mb of RAM, and an ABIT BH6 motherboard.

Why the 750mhz CPU? It's a good choice, but if you're going to have to tinker with BIOS settings to make it work anyway, why not choose the 800mhz or 1ghz CPU instead?

BrAlZy wrote:

Few more questions:
Is a Netgear FA310TX any good for Ethernet?

I've always used D-Link DFE-530TX+ adapters with great success.

BrAlZy wrote:

With the Voodoo2s, should I put a Diamond Viper V550 Riva TNT or a different card?

Get a GF4 Ti4200.

I like and use dual V2 cards in SLI, but I can't recommend them due to high cost. Have you considered getting a PCI V3 3000 and setting up separate HW profiles for both video cards? It's cheaper, with better performance, and better image quality.

BrAlZy wrote:

Are their any good cases from the 90s anyone can point out?

Lots. Keep a watchful and patient eye on your local craigslist.

BrAlZy wrote:

Shouldn't I get something like a Sound Blaster Live!?

Only if your desire for EAX is greater than your desire for compatibility with DOS games.

Personally, I prefer AWE64 cards. They are much easier to deal with.

BrAlZy wrote:

Any specific keyboard and mouse from the 90s that I should try and get?

Logitech M-BJ58 or SBF-96 mice. Any PS/2 keyboard will do, so just find one that you like best. Get a Model M if you want that retro buckling-spring experience.

My advice: don't spend alot. This hobby can get out of control real fast.

Have you considered a pre-built PC? I really like the Dell Dimension 4100 I got last year for $10 off craigslist.

2- I'd stay away from that TNT... I don't think it can play anything you would not be able to do using just the Voodoo2's 3D capabilities, and AFAIK the original TNT created poor(er) quality images compared with later cards. Get a GF4 TI, a Matrox G400+ or something like that.
3- There are plenty, finding an specific one might be hard though. IMHO look for ATX beige cases, find one that looks nice and has some ventilation and you should be set.
4- SB Live gets you EAX, Vortex2 gets you A3D. They were competing standards. You may get the SB Live!, but a lot of people seem to regard A3D as being superior to EAX 2.0. Use eiher in Windows, and an ISA card in DOS.
5- Not really, unless you are fond of Model M keyboards, and those are expensive and not necessarily late 90s (they are more like late 80's/early 90's). The mid-late 90's was the time for ditching heavy-duty AT cases for flimsy generic ATX ones, cheap rubber-dome keyboards and tacky WindowBlind themes xD

KT7AGuy wrote:

I like and use dual V2 cards in SLI, but I can't recommend them due to high cost. Have you considered getting a PCI V3 3000 and setting up separate HW profiles for both video cards? It's cheaper, with better performance, and better image quality.

Two V2 cards in SLI is much cheaper than one PCI V3. Checking on eBay shows prices at a minimum of $100. I can easily get two V2s for $90.

KT7AGuy wrote:

Why the 750mhz CPU? It's a good choice, but if you're going to have to tinker with BIOS settings to make it work anyway, why not choose the 800mhz or 1ghz CPU instead?

Did I put 750? Whoops... I was debating between a 600 and a 750 when I was writing that. I'll edit my previous post to avoid confusion. I meant a 600mhz. I won't really need a hell of a lot of speed since this machine will strictly be for late 90s games.

KT7AGuy wrote:

My advice: don't spend alot. This hobby can get out of control real fast.

Have you considered a pre-built PC? I really like the Dell Dimension 4100 I got last year for $10 off craigslist.

I'm not looking to spend a lot. I just want a Retro Gaming PC because... well... I love retro gaming! Lol

Yes, but I'd prefer to build my own so I can have only what I'm going to use in it and have the pride of "I built this."

The dell dimension 4100 would actually be a good choice here. Plenty fast, AGP and only missing ISA which we can fudge with Sound Blaster emulation. Get a Dell sound card that will allow you to have front panel audio, it's nice for headphone! Options are Sound Blater Live, Audigy and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz all readily available and inexpensive. I would choose the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz but I am biased. Throw in a GeForce FX or Ti and you are good to go. I wouldn't bother with Voodoo unless you absolutely have to have Glide.

squareguy wrote:

The dell dimension 4100 would actually be a good choice here. Plenty fast, AGP and only missing ISA which we can fudge with Sound Blaster emulation. Get a Dell sound card that will allow you to have front panel audio, it's nice for headphone! Options are Sound Blater Live, Audigy and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz all readily available and inexpensive. I would choose the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz but I am biased. Throw in a GeForce FX or Ti and you are good to go. I wouldn't bother with Voodoo unless you absolutely have to have Glide.

Thank you for your suggestion. Don't take what I'm about to say as "fuck you I'm not doing that" but I really want to build my own PC here. I want it so I can have exactly what I want.

If you want a 600MHz P3, you might want to get The 133MHz version of The 800MHz one. Underclock The FSB and it turns into a 600MHz processor, with the added bonus that you can just set it back to its nominal speed if you ever want to speed things up. Assuming there is no significant price difference, that is.

Specs aren't finalized but I think I've got what I'm going to be building:

Hardware:
600mhz Slot 1 Pentium III
512mb PC-100 RAM
Matrox G400+ AGP
2x Voodoo2 PCI in SLI
AWE64 (CT4520)
Netgear FA310TX
3.5" 1.44mb Floppy Drive
CD-ROM Drive

Peripherals:
InterAct Hammerhead FX

I still need help finding a good keyboard and mouse from the 90s. I'm not looking for a Model M. The monitor will be a CRT but I don't have a specific model because I will buy one once I get paid. At that point in time I will then look for good CRTs. The case is the same thing. I will buy one when I get paid and ensure it has good ventilation. Is a 250w PSU enough to run this? If not, what wattage PSU should I get?

Let me know what you think of the parts I've chosen! Leave your opinions/suggestions down below!

BrAlZy wrote:

Yes, but I'd prefer to build my own so I can have only what I'm going to use in it and have the pride of "I built this."

Know the feeling 😉 Been having it ever after, since 1993 or so.
When I did my first build, at the age of 17.

It was a nice 486 machine. Yes it was an 386 in 486 desguise, yet it was my machine that I build all my self.
It took me a week to read all manuals and putting stuff together.
(having no vogons, no google, no experience, and no one to ask)

BrAlZy wrote:

Specs aren't finalized but I think I've got what I'm going to be building: […]
Show full quote

Specs aren't finalized but I think I've got what I'm going to be building:

Hardware:
600mhz Slot 1 Pentium III
512mb PC-100 RAM
Matrox G400+ AGP
2x Voodoo2 PCI in SLI
AWE64 (CT4520)
Netgear FA310TX
3.5" 1.44mb Floppy Drive
CD-ROM Drive

Peripherals:
InterAct Hammerhead FX

I still need help finding a good keyboard and mouse from the 90s. I'm not looking for a Model M. The monitor will be a CRT but I don't have a specific model because I will buy one once I get paid. At that point in time I will then look for good CRTs. The case is the same thing. I will buy one when I get paid and ensure it has good ventilation. Is a 250w PSU enough to run this? If not, what wattage PSU should I get?

Let me know what you think of the parts I've chosen! Leave your opinions/suggestions down below!

Just get that AWE64-Gold, if you are going for an AWE64.
I would still look for an GF4-TI4200 if the G400+ is too slow.
I still feel the G400/G400+ should be for an K6-2 to K6-3+ line of CPU's.
Just a matter of taste, and opinions differ.
On the other hand. Matrox are competitive and delivers a crisp and clear 2D image.

I tried looking on eBay for an AWE64 Gold for myself... the prices are a bit on the salty side... Not that good Vortex2 boards are any cheaper though. The regular AWE64 is, thankfully, cheap.

Yeah... They are hit by that ebay virus.
Got my 3 cards at prices between 7 and 15 US Dollars each.
Just look for it in other places, for a future upgrade.
You might get lucky at places such as markets or thrift stores.

alexanrs wrote:

I tried looking on eBay for an AWE64 Gold for myself... the prices are a bit on the salty side... Not that good Vortex2 boards are any cheaper though. The regular AWE64 is, thankfully, cheap.

You need an inexpensive Vortex2 board? These are the ones I use and I find them regularly for under $10 with shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TBS400-3356-01-DP-N-0 … =item28013aed9b

I search usually for the part number TBS400-3356-01 which is printed on the board.

brostenen wrote:

Yeah... They are hit by that ebay virus. Got my 3 cards at prices between 7 and 15 US Dollars each. Just look for it in other pl […]
Show full quote

Yeah... They are hit by that ebay virus.
Got my 3 cards at prices between 7 and 15 US Dollars each.
Just look for it in other places, for a future upgrade.
You might get lucky at places such as markets or thrift stores.

I think I'm just gonna go for the AWE64 CT4520. It has all the feature I need and I don't need any extra features the Gold presents.

BrAlZy wrote:

Specs aren't finalized but I think I've got what I'm going to be building: […]
Show full quote

Specs aren't finalized but I think I've got what I'm going to be building:

Hardware:
600mhz Slot 1 Pentium III
512mb PC-100 RAM
Matrox G400+ AGP
2x Voodoo2 PCI in SLI
AWE64 (CT4520)
Netgear FA310TX
3.5" 1.44mb Floppy Drive
CD-ROM Drive

Peripherals:
InterAct Hammerhead FX

I still need help finding a good keyboard and mouse from the 90s. I'm not looking for a Model M. The monitor will be a CRT but I don't have a specific model because I will buy one once I get paid. At that point in time I will then look for good CRTs. The case is the same thing. I will buy one when I get paid and ensure it has good ventilation. Is a 250w PSU enough to run this? If not, what wattage PSU should I get?

Let me know what you think of the parts I've chosen! Leave your opinions/suggestions down below!

I think your choices are good and you'll be happy with this system.

However, I would ask you to please double check the V3 3000 PCI situation. If you look at eBay history, they go for between ~$40 and ~$50. Yes, there are a couple of sellers currently thinking their old junk is made of gold, but they can be avoided. Patience is a critical key to this hobby. Be patient; you'll find what you want for a reasonable price.

There are pros and cons to the V3 3000 PCI vs V2 2000 SLI.

For the V3 3000 PCI scenario:
Pros: Better picture. Slightly better Performance. Cheaper. One slot instead of two.
Cons: Gotta set up dual HW profiles, which is a bit of a pain in the ass. You'll also need to use V.Control instead of the usual drivers, but I've never had a problem with it.

For the V2 2000 SLI scenario:
Pros: Easier to setup and work with. They're more "retro", and becoming a rarer item. More driver options. Better GLIDE compatibility.
Cons: More expensive. IQ reduction due to pass-thru cable signal degradation.
Alternative "fix" for the reduction in image quality: get a monitor with both VGA and DVI inputs. Primary video outputs DVI directly to monitor and V2 SLI outputs VGA directly to monitor. Use the monitor's controls to switch between DVI/VGA as appropriate for GLIDE games.

The Matrox G400 is a great video card, no doubt. However, I wouldn't choose it in this scenario. Its performance is similar to the V3 3000 and you've already decided to utilize V2 2000 cards in SLI which also provide a similar level of performance. For that level of expected performance and compatibility, it makes more sense to just use a single AGP V3 3000/3500 and conserve two PCI slots. The best choice is a GF4 Ti4200 to pair with your V2 SLI combo for maximum performance. Performance is about 300% better with the GF4 card vs the Matrox G400 or V3 3000. Also, of all the video cards we've discussed in this thread, the GF4 Ti4200 is probably the cheapest. There's really no "cons" to choosing one, only "pros". Beyond 1200mhz, you might consider a Ti4400, Ti4600, or FX card. For your situation, the GF4 Ti4200 and V2 SLI combo will provide you with maximum performance and compatibility.

AWE64 - any AWE64 is a good AWE64.
Yes, I know the above link makes the case that the AWE64 Gold is superior. However, the reason I provide the link is because that site has audio samples you can download for comparison. Personally, I can barely tell the difference between AWE64 Value and AWE64 Gold. If you can tell a difference and it bothers you, then you should definitely get the Gold variant. If you're an audiophile, you should seriously consider it.

Here's a bit of personal experience I can relate that may help you to solidify your choices:
Since about 2002/2003, I've insisted upon using high-powered Athlon 1400 and 2100+ CPUs for my retro systems. My biggest concerns were for games like European Air War and Red Baron 3D, both of which really kinda need a Win9x GLIDE system to run at their best. I first started playing them on my Pentium 200 MMX with a Voodoo 1. As time went on, mods for them became more advanced and I was sure that Athlon-level horsepower was needed.

Last year, I received back a PC that I built in late 1999: An ABIT BM6 with a Celeron 600, 384mb RAM, Voodoo 3 3000, and AWE64 Value. I wasn't quite sure what to do with it because the BM6 isn't as flexible as the BH6 and the best it can really do is a Celeron 600. I was afraid it wouldn't run half the stuff I like. After cleaning it up and getting it going, I was surprised to find that it performs just as well as my faster Athlon systems with games like EAW and RB3D.

You need to decide what you want your PC to do and then choose components appropriately. A 600mhz system with a V3 isn't going to run Deus Ex well no matter what. To me, that doesn't matter because Deus Ex runs just fine under WinXP. A legacy PC isn't really important for that one.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is this: you will be shocked at what a 600mhz CPU with Voodoo 3 3000 is capable of for games that have trouble under WinXP or newer operating systems. You will be even more shocked at what your system can do with a GF4 Ti4200 and V2 SLI combo. If you find that you still need more power, the BH6 is one of the most flexible boards ever made. Upgrading to a 1ghz Coppermine is simple. A Tualatin will need a slocket, but isn't a much more difficult upgrade. For games that need even more power, you're probably better off running them on a faster WinXP system anyway.

As time goes on, there are fewer and fewer games that truly need a legacy Win9x PC. EAW might be one of the very last, and even that can usually be resolved with the newer community-based mods. DOSBox has rendered the concept of a legacy DOS PC almost completely irrelevant. What's left? Black & White? Final Fantasy? Sanitarium? Splinter Cell?

Anyways...
A 250W PSU will be sufficient, depending on its specs. For comparison, I have an old IBM NetVista running an Intel i815E motherboard with a 1ghz Coppermine and V3 3000 AGP. At worst, it uses 90W with both the CPU and GPU at full burn. I also tested it with a GF3 Ti500 and it never went above 110W. With a GF4 Ti4200, I would expect 125W to be the maximum draw. I still recommend the Antec BP350 as a great choice. If you're gonna run an Athlon you need to worry about having more amps on the +5V rail, but you're not planning on running an Athlon.

For mice, I still recommend the Logitech M-BJ58 or SBF-96. If you don't like the Model M but still want a real period-correct item, maybe consider a Microsoft Natural keyboard? I see them occasionally at Goodwill for about $3. They're easily cleaned and last a really long time. Otherwise, just get whatever cheap PS/2 keyboard feels good.

InterAct Hammerhead FX
I once saw one of these at Goodwill and I almost bought it simply because it had the 3dfx logo on it. I remember they got less-than-wonderful reviews, so I passed on it. The original Sony Dual Shock or Dual Shock 2 is probably the best gamepad ever made. Get a Win9x-compatible USB adapter for it and don't look back. The Logitech Precision is also a great choice, but lacks analog sticks. Either way, JoyToKey is what you need to make any controller work great.

I'm really looking forward to hearing about your final choices and seeing pics of your build. I think you're going to have a great time with this project. Everybody here has such different ideas and creative designs, so I hope you'll share yours when it's complete.

I agree with getting a more powerful GeForce (or Radeon) card - GeForce 2 as mentioned on the first page is a very good suggestion. They will generally offer better performance than Voodoo2/3 (and G400) and will support 32-bit color while doing it. These might give you some insight into what you're actually looking at:
http://www.thedodgegarage.com/3dfx/bench.htm
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/dis … odoo3-3000.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/review-ma … max,115-10.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/537/10

GeForce 2 (or GeForce 4 MX; they're fairly similar) can also be had for *very* cheap (I paid less than $6 for my 2 Ultra, but as KT7AGuy said - patience is the key here; if you just want to buy everything all at once you should expect to pay more and not get exactly what you want at the same time). GeForce 3 or 4 Ti, or higher, or Radeon 8500, or higher, will be required if you want to support DirectX 8+ (you mentioned this as an objective), and I would also go with a faster CPU than a 600MHz P3 if you're aiming at DirectX 8+ games (ideally a 1GHz+ P3 or a P4, or 1GHz+ Athlon or an AthlonXP).

For that era there are some tough choices because there are a lot of good choices...

For low budget: pick any s370 system with agp slot and a cpu from 600-1000mhz. (even the celerons run most games good enough).
256mb ram
voodoo3 agp
soundblaster live!

This will cost next to nothing an will run most of the games very well.

Medium budget:

Any bx board with agp from a good brand (i prefer asus p2b or p3b-f)
600(+) 100fsb p3 cpu
256mb
Geforce4ti (any will do, the 64mb cards are fine as well)
voodoo2 sli (best speed AND compatibility in glide, no AA and more blurry image)
isa sound ( i prefer sb16/awe32/awe64)

This will run just about everything.

Higher budget: This is the most difficult because there are some sacrifices imho but gives max performance

Good bx board with slot adapter and modded tualatin (downside is the fastest tualatin overclocks the agp bus a lot, tualatin celeron is still a fast solution and keeps agp at 66mhz)
Good socket 370 intel 815 board with tualatin support (downside is they have no isa)
Good via 133 board slot1 or s370 with tualatin (downside is a bit lower performance and imho a little more problematic with some agp cards stability wise)
Fx5950ultra (one of the fastest cards for 98se, no glide support ofcourse)
Voodoo5 5500 ( beast with glide and gives AA, isn't compatible with oldest glide games)
isa sound with duaghterboards, roland etc. etc. or sblive!, audigy pci

The ultimate system doesn't exist. I have multiple systems and they all have their pros and cons. If it is not about the hardware and just about the games: Keep it simple and buy a complete low budget system and add a voodoo3, or buy a cheap athlon system with a geforce4ti and use a wrapper for glide. It will play most games really well.