Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Discussion about old PC hardware.

Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-28 @ 23:43

I wasn't going to throw the CF away. It is functional, just not bootable, in the Tandy. Now that I have a source for DOS 5/6 360K FD's, I should be able to fdisk/format/sys the CF and end up with a bootable C drive. I'll order the DOS 6 FD's from eBay. Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know what happens.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-10-29 @ 00:09

Thanks for keeping us up to date!

You're welcome! Good luck! :)
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 01:45

Jo22 wrote:If nothing works, I can send you an older, but bootable Compact Flash card via mail.


That's very king of you. Let's hope it does not come to that. I have placed the order for the DOS FD's. They should arrive by the end of this week.

Just thought of something. This Tandy came with a 20 MB "Hard Card" but it is unreadable. "General failure reading drive C...". I assumed it had failed but there was a C prompt, so perhaps there is data corruption and not a drive failure. There is a FD labled "hard disk installation" Maybe I'll play around with it while I wait on my FD's to arrive. Maybe I'll look for my copy of "Running MS DOS" by Van Wolverton, too.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby pearce_jj » 2018-10-29 @ 20:42

Low level format is defo worth a shot.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-10-29 @ 20:54

..if you're knowing what you're doing.
Some old fixed disks had test cylinders, bad-marked sectors, etc.
I recall people using Spinrite, etc. to do tests, but this was before my time.
I killed a CF card once by running low-level formatter built into an AMI BIOS.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 22:19

pearce_jj wrote:Incidentally the XTIDE Universal BIOS is at:

http://www.xtideuniversalbios.org


Thanks for posting that. Very interesting reading.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 22:21

Tom Servo wrote:Is there any reason to opt for DOS 5 over DOS 6? I believe the eBay seller can provide DOS 6.22 on 360K FD as well as DOS 5.

Turns out there is. DOS 5 was the last version released on 360K FD's. DOS 6 has 'upgrade' version on 360K, but it consisted of 14 FD's!
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 22:40

Thanks for the latest image, Jo22. When I get another CF card I will try it, but I only have the one, which my Win 10 PC can't see any more, and my DOS 5 disks have shipped.

Regarding the hard card, it is useless as it is, so there is no harm in trying any of the ideas.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 22:48

Jo22 wrote:I see. Well, FDISK really could be the issue then.


Indeed. I found this in a document describing undocumented features in various versions of DOS:
FDISK /MBR
----------
MS-DOS 5.0 FDISK has an undocumented parameter, /MBR, that causes it to write the master boot record to the hard disk without altering the partition table information. While this feature is not documented, it can be told to customers on a need-to-know basis.

So, no FDISK /MBR in DOS 3.2.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-29 @ 23:54

From: https://code.google.com/archive/p/xtide ... tions.wiki
Downloading sources
Once the directory is created, open it and click right mouse button. You will find SVN Checkout... from the menu.
URL for the repository is http://xtideuniversalbios.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/. There is no need to alter other settings so just click OK. You have now downloaded all sources from XTIDE Universal BIOS project.

That URL for the repository is no good... 404. Any ideas where they might be? All I need is the SerDrive utility to run on a server PC. I don't need to build the BIOS since it's already up and running on my XT-CF card on the Tandy (client). Thanks.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-30 @ 02:18

I think I found what I need.
https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/XTIDE_Universal_BIOS
has 2 binaries available for download. Both have the SerDrive utility. Now to find a PC with a serial port...
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-10-30 @ 17:39

pearce_jj wrote:http://www.xtideuniversalbios.org/svn/xtideuniversalbios/trunk/

Thanks!
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-10-30 @ 18:04

pearce_jj wrote:http://www.xtideuniversalbios.org/svn/xtideuniversalbios/trunk/

Thanks for posting, good source! :)
Binaries are also available there at http://www.xtideuniversalbios.org/binaries/

- The "vintage" version of 2.0 Beta 3 (used by PCem, etc) is still available at https://code.google.com/archive/p/xtideuniversalbios/

Also interesting is this blog post (includes some EEPROM mods, etc.) :
http://sbfmdrv.blogspot.com/2015/11/retrofitting-new-eeprom-into-old-pc.html
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-11-02 @ 05:10

Success! My DOS 5 disks arrived today and I was able to install DOS and boot from the CF. Now I've got this working vintage PC and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. First I will dust off my copy of 'Running MS-DOS' by Van Woverton, which I purchased about 25 years ago and relearn DOS. The other thing I'd like to do is find joysticks for this SX. I read somewhere that you can make and adapter for some more commonly available joystick. Anyone know anything about that? And I am looking forward to experimenting with the serial virtual disk drive.

Thanks again to everyone for the help, especially Jo22.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-11-03 @ 05:12

Tom, I'm really happy you got your Tandy running! ^^

I, among many others here, know how frustating it can be if you're stuck when trying to fix something.
Even bigger, however, is the joy if in the end you managed to get through all the trouble and reach your goal.

As for further Tandy projects, there's a lot you can do with an XT class machine!
Some use it to browse the web "old-school" in text-mode. Using Lynx and mTCP, I believe.
Others do retro programming (Turbo Pascal, QuickBASIC, VB DOS, Power C), pixel art (Deluxe Paint for PC; there's CGA release), etc.

Or play musical scores of old GW-BASIC programs from the 1980's (some examples that I've encountered so far).
Since you've got a Tandy 1000, you can listen to some nice 3-Voice tunes, too.
Maybe there are some YM trackers out there, as there were for the Atari ST.

I for one, use it for running classic utilities, saving book ware (5.25" 360K disks that were included in old books) and games (Packman).
Useful programs that come to mind right now that can be run on such machines are IC-Database,
STSPlus (an orbital calculation program; once the shining star; works if x87 is installed) and Metric Converter (Win 2.x).
I also run AutoSketch 2 / 3 on it from time to time, because it is fun watching the x87 doing all the calculation (also works without x87).
And some astronomy programs, of course. Like, StarView, for example (attached).

Speaking of the joystick, I've found a bit of information on Great Hierophant's blog!
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2016/08/the-pc-joystick-to-tandy-1000-joystick.html

So long! :)

Best regards,
Jo22
Attachments
speakermus.zip
Some old PD music for PC Speaker
(27.74 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
starview.zip
"StarView is a non-commercial
product of Digi-Tech Consultants."
(174.47 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby infiniteclouds » 2018-11-03 @ 17:23

I have one of Keropi's 8 bit midi cards that has MIDI in -- are there any programs that could recognize my modern digital piano as even a basic controller and I could create 3-voice tunes in on my SX or TL?
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-11-03 @ 17:57

Hi infiniteclouds! I think I've came across something like this before! :)
I remember there were many microntroller projects on Youtube that are related to the YM and Yamaha chips..
I'll check and write back.

Edit: I'm very busy right now (paperwork), so I apologize that it may take a little longer..
Edit: I meant AY and YM chips, of course. My mistake. :sweatdrop:
Edit: Still looking. I've found some Tandy utilities at oldskool.org but you may already know them.
I've also came across a remote controlled AdLib card (via keyboard).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOKIwS0oG8Y
Last edited by Jo22 on 2018-11-08 @ 15:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Tom Servo » 2018-11-04 @ 02:14

Jo22 wrote:As for further Tandy projects, there's a lot you can do with an XT class machine!

Thank you so much for all the information and support. I went to the Internet Archive today and checked out a book on QBasic. I'm interested in the joystick adapter, too. I'll let you know about my projects as they develop.
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Re: Tandy 1000, Lo-Tech XT/IDE, CF and DOS 3.x

Postby Jo22 » 2018-11-08 @ 16:51

Glad to hear! :) On my PC/XT clone, I'm currently trying out an interesting Personality Analysis Program (analyze.zip) from retroarchive.org.
Among my favorite books is PC-Bastelbuch (PC thinker book, #3-89090-331-2) by Kai Hamann, which focuses on game and Centronics port.
Not sure if it ever got translated into English, though. Author Burkhard Kainka (transl.) also wrote some entertaining electronics books,
which I think some of got English releases.. The early releases focues on serial/parallel and include code for Pascal and GW-Basic, I recall.

Oh, and also check books for Quickbasic.
QBasic is derived from QB 4.x, so books about QuickBasic 4.0 or 4.5 (or earlier) may also work,
provided than no advanced QB-exclusive features are used (rarely the case IMHO).

Same for Visual Basic for DOS, which was a mixture of QB4.5 and Visual Basic 1.0.
The syntax of VB DOS or VB DOS Pro is very close to QB, and I got most of my programs to compile with it.
Last, but not least, there's PDS Basic 7.1, which is sorta a hybrid of Quickbasic and M-BASIC, I believe.
It supports EMS, OS/2 and such. But there aren't many books about it, so QBasic or QB is fine for most.

Last but not least, there were special builds of GW-Basic, which used the advanced features of the Tandy 1000.
Not sure about graphics, but they definitely supported the 3-Voice chip!

@infiniteclouds I'm still looking for a Tandy 3-voice Host software for MIDI.
Even if it turns out there isn't yet, people like YT user Bisquit might be able to implement it.
(There's seemingly quite an interest in retro programming for sound chips,
so there must be still enough knowledge and information left, see https://youtu.be/gjuHxjdv3ZE).
- I also apologize for going slightly off-topic in your thread; it wasn't on purpose. I hope you don't mind. :sweatdrop:
I just hope that this -um- extra information might be useful for you and other Tandy 1000 users, at least.
Attachments
bastel01.jpg
The book.
bastel01.jpg (22.11 KiB) Viewed 120 times
bastel02.jpg
A pedometer/odometer for a hamster wheel. :)
bastel02.jpg (14.48 KiB) Viewed 120 times
"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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