VOGONS


First post, by musicforlife

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My 486 computer is already having 20mb ram but still it's nightmare trying to get enough free conventional memory. I already ran memmaker and put things into high but still I am getting only 509K of free conventional memory while there's at least one game requiring 570K. The computer is equipped with plug&play but there's nothing configurable in bios settings so I have to use dos manager for my SB16 plug&play soundcard.

I know I could get it better with third party programs (JemmEX, Cutemouse etc) but I originally wanted to have "authentic" setup with original stuff of the time 1994-95.

Config.sys:
______________
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN WIN=E300-E5FF
DOS=HIGH
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=8
DOS=UMB
LASTDRIVE=E
FCBS=4,0
DEVICE=C:\PLUGPLAY\DRIVERS\DOS\DWCFGMG.SYS
COUNTRY=358,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\DISPLAY.SYS CON=(EGA,,1)
DEVICE=C:\SB16\DRV\CTSB16.SYS /UNIT=0 /BLASTER=A:220 I:5 D:1 H:5
DEVICE=C:\SB16\DRV\CTMMSYS.SYS
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,14048 =C:\DOS\MTMCDAI.SYS /D:MSCD000 /P:170,15

Autoexec.bat:
______________
LH /L:0;1,16400 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S /W=C:\WINDOWS
C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
LH C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /d:mscd000
@ECHO OFF
PROMPT $P$G
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS
SET TEMP=C:\DOS
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((850) C:\DOS\EGA.CPI)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=850
KEYB SU,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
LH C:\DOS\MOUSE.EXE

Reply 1 of 22, by Deksor

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Can you run mem /c /p and mem /f /p and show the results to us ? This will be helpful ^^

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Reply 3 of 22, by musicforlife

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Deksor wrote:

Can you run mem /c /p and mem /f /p and show the results to us ? This will be helpful ^^

Here they are:

IMG_2273.JPG
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1.66 MiB
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IMG_2274.JPG
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IMG_2274.JPG
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2110 views
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IMG_2275.JPG
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1.27 MiB
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2110 views
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Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 5 of 22, by LSS10999

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1. The WIN parameter... do you also run Windows 3.x with this config?
2. The CTSB16.SYS is usually optional (DIAGNOSE and MIXERSET are enough to get it running). Do you have programs that actually utilized it (or depending on the previous question, does Windows require loading this TSR)?
3. Since you use original MSCDEX and you have EMS enabled, you might consider adding /E parameter to make it utilize some EMS.

Reply 6 of 22, by dionb

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Given that SMARTDRV is eating most of your upper memory, you could ditch that which would let you run a lot of the other driver stuff there, freeing up between 15-20k of conventional memory.

Reply 7 of 22, by LeFlash

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We used to have different configs back in those days, especially with critical programms.

DOS 6.0 and up supports menus in config.sys / autoexec.bat

Otherwise just create a batchfile to copy around the configs and reboot via jumping to ffff:0000 with debug for extra comfort. 😉

Reply 8 of 22, by retardware

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Guys, with high probability the OP has a contiguous block of 192kB that he can allocate as UMB.
Just using that would solve all his conventional memory problems 😉

I wonder why apparently nobody advises to use MSD... people seem to like memmaker best. Dunno why. 😀
Even though memmaker is a program that should be deleted to avoid problems.

Last edited by retardware on 2019-05-09, 07:32. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 9 of 22, by GigAHerZ

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Try DEVICEHIGH on everything in config.sys (after emm386 has been loaded) and LOADHIGH on everything in autoexec.bat. Most can be moved into UMB.

You could also give a shot to Jemm386 or QEMM instead of himem.sys and emm386.

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - And i intend to get every last bit out of it even after loading every damn driver!

Reply 10 of 22, by retardware

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GigAHerZ wrote:

Try DEVICEHIGH on everything in config.sys (after emm386 has been loaded) and LOADHIGH on everything in autoexec.bat.

The same with FILESHIGH, BUFFERSHIGH etc after HIMEM.SYS in config.sys.
So OP can allocate a sufficient number of files.
8 is a joke, 🤣. I generally set 60.

Reply 11 of 22, by nuno14272

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troca el driver del mouse, por lo cute mouse. (CTMOUSE)
passas de 25K uso para 2k...

tira el mcdex... por otro driver de cdrom.. vide-cdd.sys solo ocupan 9k

com mouse + cd-rom tienes una poupança de 35K

despues, DeviceHIGH en tudo
DOS=high,umb, no auto

-- machine translate --

change the mouse driver, so cute mouse. (CTMOUSE)
you spend 25K usage for 2k ...

strip the mcdex ... for another cdrom driver .. vide-cdd.sys only occupy 9k

with mouse + cd-rom you have a saving of 35K

afterwards, DeviceHIGH at all
DOS = high, umb, no auto

1| 386DX40
2| P200mmx, Voodoo 1
3| PIII-450, Voodoo 3 3000

Reply 12 of 22, by luckybob

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MOUSE is using 25K of ram

Switch to CTMOUSE, it uses ~3.5K of upper memory

http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/

Thats 25k for ya there!

Also switch MSCDEX to SHSUCDX. It even lets you use ISO images for CD's. http://adoxa.altervista.org/shsucdx/ it uses 11k of upper memory and zero conventional. thats another ~27k

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 13 of 22, by GigAHerZ

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nuno14272 wrote:
troca el driver del mouse, por lo cute mouse. (CTMOUSE) passas de 25K uso para 2k... […]
Show full quote

troca el driver del mouse, por lo cute mouse. (CTMOUSE)
passas de 25K uso para 2k...

tira el mcdex... por otro driver de cdrom.. vide-cdd.sys solo ocupan 9k

com mouse + cd-rom tienes una poupança de 35K

despues, DeviceHIGH en tudo
DOS=high,umb, no auto

Mul pole kõige õrnematki aimu, mida sa siin kirjutad. Ja ilmselt sa ei saa aru ka sellest, mida mina siin praegu kirjutan, eks?

Let's keep it in english?

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - And i intend to get every last bit out of it even after loading every damn driver!

Reply 14 of 22, by jaZz_KCS

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In addition to trying as load as many drivers that are neccessary in high memory (this not showing to be as fruitful as you dont have that much high memory allocated to begin with) and substituting the mouse driver for one with a much smaller imprint, like CuteMouse...

I shall suggest using QEMM. Its stealth feature managed to free up more than 100 additional kb of high mem on all system I tried it on, resulting in all of these systems almost using NO conventional memory at all as almost everything fits into high ram.

QEMM does a nice job in finding all allocatable regions for you.

Reply 15 of 22, by LSS10999

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luckybob wrote:
MOUSE is using 25K of ram […]
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MOUSE is using 25K of ram

Switch to CTMOUSE, it uses ~3.5K of upper memory

http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/

Thats 25k for ya there!

Also switch MSCDEX to SHSUCDX. It even lets you use ISO images for CD's. http://adoxa.altervista.org/shsucdx/ it uses 11k of upper memory and zero conventional. thats another ~27k

jaZz_KCS wrote:

In addition to trying as load as many drivers that are neccessary in high memory (this not showing to be as fruitful as you dont have that much high memory allocated to begin with) and substituting the mouse driver for one with a much smaller imprint, like CuteMouse...

I shall suggest using QEMM. Its stealth feature managed to free up more than 100 additional kb of high mem on all system I tried it on, resulting in all of these systems almost using NO conventional memory at all as almost everything fits into high ram.

QEMM does a nice job in finding all allocatable regions for you.

The OP explicitly stated that he'll use only original TSRs for an "authentic" setup.

For a legacy PC like 486, QEMM does seem to perform better than any memory managers. Back then I was able to reliably get a good amount of UMB while having EMS enabled with it on older PCs.

Reply 16 of 22, by luckybob

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LSS10999 wrote:

The OP explicitly stated that he'll use only original TSRs for an "authentic" setup.

Then he is authenticly S-O-L.

If ctmouse existed before the 90's, EVERYONE would use it and the creator would have a 6-figure salary in some corporate lab.

The only 'authentic' option was to boot with no drivers/TSRs.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 17 of 22, by LSS10999

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Despite consuming too much conventional memory, DOS programs tend to experience fewer bugs with those original TSRs (MS EMM386, MSCDEX, SMARTDRV) as far as I've tested.

Modern TSRs implement things in different and efficient ways that some programs, notoriously DOS extenders, may not like them, causing strange issues (from unexpected exceptions to freezes / hard resets).

And you're right about booting with no drivers/TSRs. These should get enough conventional memory and can avoid some issues with programs that don't like certain TSRs, just that optical drive and mouse won't be available.

Plus, back then I don't usually use EMM386 with Windows 3.x, and I'd simply create a separate boot entry with only necessary stuffs needed to start Windows 3.x up while using the TSRs only in pure DOS. TSRs and EMS are usually unnecessary for Windows 3.x programs.

Reply 18 of 22, by Deksor

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For period correct software, you might be able to use this as well (though for a 486 it might be too old ...) http://www.win3x.org/win3board/viewtopic.php? … =30&f=8&t=26070
It lets you get exactly all the UMBs available and you can even load himem.sys high !

There's also a piece of software named "DOSMAX" that lets you load some parts of DOS itself high.

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Reply 19 of 22, by dr_st

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musicforlife wrote:

I know I could get it better with third party programs (JemmEX, Cutemouse etc) but I originally wanted to have "authentic" setup with original stuff of the time 1994-95.

Enjoy banging your head against a wall, then. 😀

Other than that, your startup files have the following problems:

1. Loading device drivers that you probably don't need and loading them low.
2. Not using proper EMM386 switches (the monochrome region I=B000-B7FF and 'dead ROM' I=F000-F7FF can probably free a lot of UMBs)

retardware wrote:

The same with FILESHIGH, BUFFERSHIGH etc after HIMEM.SYS in config.sys.
So OP can allocate a sufficient number of files.
8 is a joke, 🤣. I generally set 60.

FILESHIGH, BUFFERSHIGH etc do not work in DOS 6, AFAIR. But yes, setting FILES, BUFFERS, STACKS too low will cause various issues with many games/applications.

luckybob wrote:

Also switch MSCDEX to SHSUCDX. It even lets you use ISO images for CD's. http://adoxa.altervista.org/shsucdx/ it uses 11k of upper memory and zero conventional. thats another ~27k

With EMS available and /E switch, MSCDEX only uses 16K of upper memory. Not a big difference compared to SHSUCDX.

A good starting point is my awesome startup files. They are from Win98 SE, but most principles apply:
Re: Autoexec.bat & Config.sys Help

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