VOGONS


First post, by dionb

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Today I picked up a board hoping to test P66 vs P75 head-to-head in as near identical hardware as possible (So4 and So5 Asus boards with SiS501 chipset). Of course, that is only going to work if the boards actually work. The So5 Asus PCI/I-P54SP4 is pretty DOA :'(

Here's the board:
file.php?id=76479&mode=view

Ignore the SIMMs at an angle, I've replaced them with two known-good 32MB SIMMs, from my PCI/I-P5SP4 (identical to this one except for voltage regulator and socket). I've also added a Diamond Stealth3D 2000 (S3 Virge PCI card), and hooked up a keyboard. That's all.

Symptoms:
I power on the AT PSU and nothing happens - POST card resolutely sticks at 00, no image via VGA or any other sign of life. CPU gets warm.

What I've done so far:
- checked jumper settings: correct for P75 and double-sided SIMMs. Bus speed set to 50MHz
- checked fuse by keyb controller: <0.1Ohm
- checked the voltage planes on the board:
+5V = 4.86V - lower than I would like but within 5% tolerance (>4.75V)
+12V = 11.66V - not bad, well within 5% tolerance (>11.4V)
- measured output of VRM: 3.43V - spot on.
- swapped BIOS chip for a newly flased version 0106 0204 0106 was confusion with P5SP4... (newest from Asus site) - no change
- swapped CPU for another P90 - no change
- disabled I/O and (awful) CMD IDE - no change
- looked for obvious damage to both sides of PCB and components - nothing I can spot

The Dallas RTC is an obvious suspect, but at the same time it's a DS12887, not a DS1387, so it shouldn't cause anything worse than not saving settings. It's soldered, not socketed, so can't immediately swap it out. Don't want to attempt to de-solder unless I absolutely have to.

Any other suggestions for things to try?

Last edited by dionb on 2020-02-24, 09:10. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 21, by Horun

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Did the KB led's flash briefly when first powered ? Have you tried a speaker to see if it beeps or screams, just in case the POST card has a compatibility issue with that board ?
other than those I got nothing.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 21, by mpe

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My SiS501 board doesn't boot if SIMMs are only installed in the second bank (top two slots on my board, just like you have them inserted).

Also the chipset doesn't support 32MB SIMMs you mentioned. 16M is the max you can use as there are only 12bit raw/column signals

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Reply 3 of 21, by dionb

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Horun wrote on 2020-02-09, 16:21:

Did the KB led's flash briefly when first powered ? Have you tried a speaker to see if it beeps or screams, just in case the POST card has a compatibility issue with that board ?
other than those I got nothing.

Not a peep from the speaker. The LEDs flash very briefly immediately at power-on.

Strongly doubt a compatibility issue with the POST-card, as I have two and both work fine on the P5SP4.

mpe wrote on 2020-02-09, 16:25:

My SiS501 board doesn't boot if SIMMs are only installed in the second bank (top two slots on my board, just like you have them inserted).

On the Asus P54SP4 and P5SP4 the top two are bank 0. It works on the P5SP4 with the SIMMs in bank 0. To be sure I also tried bank 1 on the P54SP4, but same result as with bank 0.

Also the chipset doesn't support 32MB SIMMs you mentioned. 16M is the max you can use as there are only 12bit raw/column signals

Oh? As I said, these SIMMs came from my P5SP4, with the exact same chipset, where they happily give me 64MB total. They are double-sided 32MB modules, so each chip is only 16Mb (4Mx4).

Reply 5 of 21, by Horun

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How about bad a BIOS chip or flashed with wrong bios image ?

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 6 of 21, by dionb

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Horun wrote on 2020-02-09, 17:32:

How about bad a BIOS chip or flashed with wrong bios image ?

Flashed a second EEPROM with the latest image from the Asus site. No change.

Reply 8 of 21, by dionb

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Nvm1 wrote on 2020-02-09, 19:12:

This board still has some tantalums on it. Check them, they like to fail/short without being visible or they go out with a loud bang.

No really loud bangs and did a visual check too...

Good idea though, I'll check for resistance over their points (not perfect when in situ, but should show difference between short and workgin)

Reply 9 of 21, by TheMobRules

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I am troubleshooting a Socket 5 board with the exact same symptoms, only it's a Neptune (430NX) based board (FIC PN-2000). I also tried flashing the latest BIOS on another chip, several known good PCI/ISA VGAs, CPUs, PSUs and FPM memory sticks but no dice. Voltages are fine but POST card doesn't budge from '-- --'. The former owner claims it was working just days before he removed it and gave it to me, but since I got it for free I have no reason to doubt him.

It also has a soldered DS12887 block (they really did like these things during the mid-90's!), so as a last resort I decided to desolder it with my cheap ZD-915 gun, knowing these things sometimes prevent boards from booting. Luckily it came out very cleanly. Once I get DIP24 sockets I will solder them in and test again with a known working (and CR2032-modded) DS12887. If it works it may also be worth for you to desolder it.

Reply 10 of 21, by mpe

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The Dallas shouldn't have created this. With a dead battery start the board should still start and display an error. Even with failed Dallas (or no Dallas at all) the POST card should display at least something as it should fail half way in the POST (although the board wouldn't be displaying anything).

But everything is possible.

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Reply 11 of 21, by dionb

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Everything is certainly possible, but it would be a first for a DS128(8)7 not to boot at all. From PS/2 model 30 to Asus P55T2P4, boards with those beasts just get offended at lack of settings. It's the DS1387 RealtimeRAMified boards that sometimes utterly refuse to do anything if the battery is dead.

Checked the caps - can't be totally sure that they are still doing their capacitive job properly in-situ, but none are completely shorted. Scratch that one...

Am now wondering about clock signals. Unfortunately I don't have an oscilloscope to check them 🙁

Reply 12 of 21, by quicknick

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Does your POST card have a "Reset" led? Does it turn off shortly after you apply power?
Do you have means to measure the clocks on the board (ISA, PCI, CPU, KBC)? - edit: typed that while you were typing 😀
Try powering up your board while applying some pressure with your thumb to each big chip, if this changes anything then you have bad/cracked solder joint(s).

Reply 13 of 21, by Robin4

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I purchased two of these boards myself..

What could help is remove DIP chips from there socket and put some IPA 99,9 procent in it with a cotton stick. And also trying to clean the legs of the chips.
Sometimes the connections of these chips are getting very bad of corrosion..

Also put IPA on the flat pack chips en try to clean them.

Did you also tried the third and the fourth memory bank?

The latest bios is 0204..

Use the attachments on your own risk.

The board also dont work maybe because of a bad memory bank which is damaged.

As last option is maybe to reflow the solder joints. Maybe it give you some light in the darkness.

Attachments

  • Filename
    si5i0204.txt.txt
    File size
    103 Bytes
    Downloads
    47 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception
  • Filename
    si5i0204.zip
    File size
    61.16 KiB
    Downloads
    46 downloads
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

~ At least it can do black and white~

Reply 15 of 21, by Doornkaat

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breno785au wrote on 2020-02-23, 12:08:

Just restored a system with one of these motherboards in it, glad to say it POSTs but BIOS reporting CMOS battery fail. But i'll be damned if I can find the battery!

The battery is inside the Dallas RTC module in the bottom right corner. You can replace the module or hack an external battery to it. Googling "Dallas RTC bettety hack" should give you plenty instructions. Have fun! 😃

Reply 16 of 21, by breno785au

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Doornkaat wrote on 2020-02-23, 19:34:
breno785au wrote on 2020-02-23, 12:08:

Just restored a system with one of these motherboards in it, glad to say it POSTs but BIOS reporting CMOS battery fail. But i'll be damned if I can find the battery!

The battery is inside the Dallas RTC module in the bottom right corner. You can replace the module or hack an external battery to it. Googling "Dallas RTC bettety hack" should give you plenty instructions. Have fun! 😃

I thought it might be something like that, thanks for letting me know!

Reply 17 of 21, by dionb

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Robin4 wrote on 2020-02-10, 00:48:
I purchased two of these boards myself.. […]
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I purchased two of these boards myself..

What could help is remove DIP chips from there socket and put some IPA 99,9 procent in it with a cotton stick. And also trying to clean the legs of the chips.
Sometimes the connections of these chips are getting very bad of corrosion..

Also put IPA on the flat pack chips en try to clean them.

Hopefully will have time to try this later this week.

Did you also tried the third and the fourth memory bank?

There are no third and fourth bank - this is a Pentium board so two SIMMs = one bank. The bottom two are bank zero, the top two are bank one. Tried both. No change.

The latest bios is 0204..

In my OP I mixed up the numbers of th P5SP4 and P54SP4 BIOS versions (I have both, the P5SP4 works fine). I'll correct OP and try yout 0204 image just to be certain.

Use the attachments on your own risk.

Not much risk with an EEPROM flasher 😉

The board also dont work maybe because of a bad memory bank which is damaged.

Possibly, but as I've tried both banks (with known-good SIMMs that work on the P5SP4) they would both have to be damaged. No sign of damage to the traces around the SIMM slots.

As last option is maybe to reflow the solder joints. Maybe it give you some light in the darkness.

Would like to have an idea exactly which chip(s) need this before I do that, but lacking an oscilloscope I can't get much further than checking continuity between GND and 5V lines at pins, which shows good everywhere I've done so far.

Reply 18 of 21, by breno785au

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This sounds like a stupid question but I wouldn't have to configure any of the drives in the BIOS for this motherboard right? Motherboard isn't detecting any IDE drives, have confirmed they work in another system...