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Pentium MMX 450MHz

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Reply 20 of 45, by feipoa

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-04-21, 14:13:

I run my K6-III+ with the motherboard cache disabled. It's actually slightly faster in DOS Quake that way, and I benchmarked it many times to make sure it's not a measurement error. Other games are slightly slower but the difference is about the same as the difference between K6-III+ and K6-II+ at the same clock speed.

On my i430tx board, I also have to disabled the motherboard's external cache just to get the K6-III+ working. In fact, I had to remove the TAG RAM, but at least it is socketed.

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Reply 21 of 45, by ph4nt0m

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-04-21, 21:37:

By the way, Speedsys shows that the L3 cache bandwidth on this motherboard is about 180 MB/s while main memory bandwidth is 160 MB/s so the difference is not that impressive.

Reading from mainboard cache is 528MB/s, from memory is 337MB/s. Somewhat slower on Tillamook, but the same order of magnitude. Cache line size is 32 bytes, though there are 2 lines per tag on K6. Cache and memory controllers in VIA MVP3 can do fast back-to-back reading. That's 3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 clocks for cache and 6-1-1-1-2-1-1-1 for SDRAM delivering 64 bytes. 10 clocks for cache vs. 14 clocks for SDRAM. Cache is much faster. Besides if memory is accessed by a bus master device, transactions from the CPU are queued, but it can still receive data from the mainboard cache.

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Reply 22 of 45, by Nemo1985

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I'm actually unable to run the tillamook, I tried it on the following mb without success: Epox MVP3G5, Aopen AX59 PRO (both with Via MVP3) then I tried a Asus SP98AGP-X (sis ss7 chipset) in all of that mb I get black screen.
I tried to remove BRDY#-BRDYC# bridge, but nothing changed.
Picture of the cpu: https://imgur.com/a/S8EwjfV

Thanks

Reply 23 of 45, by ph4nt0m

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2020-04-22, 13:16:

I'm actually unable to run the tillamook, I tried it on the following mb without success: Epox MVP3G5, Aopen AX59 PRO (both with Via MVP3) then I tried a Asus SP98AGP-X (sis ss7 chipset) in all of that mb I get black screen.

These ASDC# to ASD# and BRDYC# to BRDY# bridges are only for mainboard cache. They are of no use if the CPU doesn't POST.

There are Vio and Vss bridged on your photo instead of BF2 and Tillamook's BF2...

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Reply 24 of 45, by Nemo1985

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Sorry for the bump, I received another tillamook from a chinese ebay seller, in the meanwhile I redid the soldering.
I'm using the Aopen AX59 PRO once again, both cpus do not boot with default voltage, the system boots but hangs at the post screen with v2.2, this happens with both cpu, the system starts to boot at v2.4 but it throws errors on dos (first cpu gives random error, the second claim it can't find the command.com).
Now that I got a faulty cpu can happen, but 2 in a row sounds weird.
The first cpu has the l2 cache enabled with ASDC# to ASD bridge.
The second has no bridge at all.
I'm wondering are those chinese sellers selling faulty cpu?
I also wondered if the cpu could be a relabelled pentium mmx, so I tried to run the first cpu at v2.8 (should be the voltage of the vanilla pmmx cpus) but it hanged at the memory screen. (I did this with just the first cpu since I don't want to risk the other cpu).

Then I tried the Asus SP98AGP-X, with this one the cpus do not get detected (debug card says ----), even with both l1 and l2 cache disabled from bios.

I could try the Epox MVP3G5 and the Gigabyte ga-5ax rev 5.2, but I start to think that those cpus are really troublesome to find the right mb.

Any suggestion?

Reply 25 of 45, by ph4nt0m

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Are the capacitors good on your boards? I have upgraded mine from those nonames near the CPU socket to Rubycon MBZ 2200uF/6.3V liquids and Fujitsu 560uF/4V polymers. Besides I have modded the socket, so it saves me the trouble of modding every Tillamook that gets in my way. Other CPUs don't care about these mods anyway.

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Reply 26 of 45, by feipoa

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2020-05-26, 17:29:

but I start to think that those cpus are really troublesome to find the right mb.

That sounds about right in my experience.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 27 of 45, by Nemo1985

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ph4nt0m wrote on 2020-05-26, 21:18:

Are the capacitors good on your boards? I have upgraded mine from those nonames near the CPU socket to Rubycon MBZ 2200uF/6.3V liquids and Fujitsu 560uF/4V polymers. Besides I have modded the socket, so it saves me the trouble of modding every Tillamook that gets in my way. Other CPUs don't care about these mods anyway.

Yes capacitors look good on both mb... Do you use a FIC VA-503+, right? Probably is just a bios issue...

Reply 28 of 45, by auron

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frudi wrote on 2020-04-21, 07:50:

What am I missing? With L2 enabled, K6-2 and Tillamook perform virtually identically (76 vs 77 fps), while the K6-3 sails past both at 83 fps.

the AMD chips ran at 112mhz FSB here versus 100mhz for the tillamook. still surprised at the results though, in my tests the original K6 always showed quite a bit lower memory bandwidth clock for clock vs. pentiums on HX/TX boards, and ran noticeably worse than pentium mmx in quake as well. i'm guessing MTRRs were enabled for the tests here, which probably would also help?

is it known whether K6-2 introduced any other tweaks to the core, other than 3dnow! and MTRRs for chomper XT?

Reply 29 of 45, by Doornkaat

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auron wrote on 2020-06-05, 17:45:
frudi wrote on 2020-04-21, 07:50:

What am I missing? With L2 enabled, K6-2 and Tillamook perform virtually identically (76 vs 77 fps), while the K6-3 sails past both at 83 fps.

the AMD chips ran at 112mhz FSB here versus 100mhz for the tillamook.

I can't find that info, can you point it out?
Also why run the CPU at that fsb when it has a 4.5x multi?

Reply 31 of 45, by Doornkaat

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auron wrote on 2020-06-05, 20:29:

look at the speedsys shots OP posted. though, since he did mention using the same settings, it could have also been a misdetection by that tool?

I think we both got it wrong.
OP says his Tillamook runs at a max multiplier of 4x. That means he ran his CPU at 4x 112MHz fsb as well and the MMX speedsys is a misdetection. In any case all CPUs ran at 112MHz fsb in this test as far as I understand.

Reply 32 of 45, by Skalabala

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How stable is it running at 450Mhz?
The record 533Mhz is said to be done at 3.1V and with air cooling :0
https://hwbot.org/hardware/processors#key=emb … tium_mmx_266mhz

I wish I had one or two of these CPUs, Maybe its faster than K6 in Half life ! 🤣

Just imagine if Intel made it 180nm and 256kb L2

Reply 34 of 45, by ph4nt0m

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Skalabala wrote on 2020-06-06, 10:46:
How stable is it running at 450Mhz? The record 533Mhz is said to be done at 3.1V and with air cooling :0 https://hwbot.org/hard […]
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How stable is it running at 450Mhz?
The record 533Mhz is said to be done at 3.1V and with air cooling :0
https://hwbot.org/hardware/processors#key=emb … tium_mmx_266mhz

I wish I had one or two of these CPUs, Maybe its faster than K6 in Half life ! 🤣

Just imagine if Intel made it 180nm and 256kb L2

It's quite stable. No crashes so far. It can boot to DOS and run Speedsys at 500MHz 3.2V, but Quake crashes quickly. 496MHz actually, 4x124MHz.

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Reply 35 of 45, by ph4nt0m

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Q3KVL9m.png

CA0GRmX.png

It won't go any higher in this FIC VA-503+ as the board is unstable at 124MHz. It's also picky about video cards. Had to put a Voodoo 3 instead of a Radeon 7500. I guess that's the board's not optimal layout.

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Reply 36 of 45, by meljor

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2020-05-26, 17:29:
Sorry for the bump, I received another tillamook from a chinese ebay seller, in the meanwhile I redid the soldering. I'm using t […]
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Sorry for the bump, I received another tillamook from a chinese ebay seller, in the meanwhile I redid the soldering.
I'm using the Aopen AX59 PRO once again, both cpus do not boot with default voltage, the system boots but hangs at the post screen with v2.2, this happens with both cpu, the system starts to boot at v2.4 but it throws errors on dos (first cpu gives random error, the second claim it can't find the command.com).
Now that I got a faulty cpu can happen, but 2 in a row sounds weird.
The first cpu has the l2 cache enabled with ASDC# to ASD bridge.
The second has no bridge at all.
I'm wondering are those chinese sellers selling faulty cpu?
I also wondered if the cpu could be a relabelled pentium mmx, so I tried to run the first cpu at v2.8 (should be the voltage of the vanilla pmmx cpus) but it hanged at the memory screen. (I did this with just the first cpu since I don't want to risk the other cpu).

Then I tried the Asus SP98AGP-X, with this one the cpus do not get detected (debug card says ----), even with both l1 and l2 cache disabled from bios.

I could try the Epox MVP3G5 and the Gigabyte ga-5ax rev 5.2, but I start to think that those cpus are really troublesome to find the right mb.

Any suggestion?

I have tested quite a few boards with a Tillamook (with and without mods on the cpu).

3 different versions of the Epox mvp3 board: NO GO.
Aopen ax59pro: NO GO
Asus P5A and P5A-B (every revision of these boards as well) : NO GO
Asus SP97-V: NO GO
Asus SP98agp-X: NO GO
2 different mvp3 DFI boards: NO GO

Asus TX97 (2 versions): GO (but even with modded cpu no working cache)

Tested several others that wouldn't work (some boot but cache not working even with the mods).

What does work? (And works well) are the gigabyte GA-5AX and GA-5AA ali V boards (with modded cpu cache works fine!). I would love to get one of my Asus SS7 boards working but it seems that very few Asus boards even boot without cache enabled.. maybe they are missing some sort of micro code in their bios? Imho the Asus boards are the fastest, they always came on top when doing benchmarks with a k6-3+ CPU. But the Gigabyte boards are still fine performers and I think the best bet for Tillamook setups . My Tillamooks are the 266mhz versions with the same packaging as the normal mmx cpu.

Only board I didn't test back then is the FIC 503+. I do have one but i HATE the massive amount of jumpers on that board.

The ONLY board I know of that works without any mods and with working cache (tested myself) is a ECS P5SJ-A. Its a SiS chipset but unfortunately for me without 100fsb or AGP slot. It works fine and stable at 4x75fsb (300mhz). Also the 4x multi works on this board without a mod (needs the 2x setting on this one). Downside is that it's a low performing board so any TX board with a normal 233mhz mmx cpu clocked at 3,5x 75fsb would be just as fast, 3,5x83mhz on a good board would be a bit faster.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 37 of 45, by Nemo1985

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meljor wrote on 2020-06-22, 18:57:
I have tested quite a few boards with a Tillamook (with and without mods on the cpu). […]
Show full quote

I have tested quite a few boards with a Tillamook (with and without mods on the cpu).

3 different versions of the Epox mvp3 board: NO GO.
Aopen ax59pro: NO GO
Asus P5A and P5A-B (every revision of these boards as well) : NO GO
Asus SP97-V: NO GO
Asus SP98agp-X: NO GO
2 different mvp3 DFI boards: NO GO

Asus TX97 (2 versions): GO (but even with modded cpu no working cache)

Tested several others that wouldn't work (some boot but cache not working even with the mods).

What does work? (And works well) are the gigabyte GA-5AX and GA-5AA ali V boards (with modded cpu cache works fine!). I would love to get one of my Asus SS7 boards working but it seems that very few Asus boards even boot without cache enabled.. maybe they are missing some sort of micro code in their bios? Imho the Asus boards are the fastest, they always came on top when doing benchmarks with a k6-3+ CPU. But the Gigabyte boards are still fine performers and I think the best bet for Tillamook setups . My Tillamooks are the 266mhz versions with the same packaging as the normal mmx cpu.

Only board I didn't test back then is the FIC 503+. I do have one but i HATE the massive amount of jumpers on that board.

The ONLY board I know of that works without any mods and with working cache (tested myself) is a ECS P5SJ-A. Its a SiS chipset but unfortunately for me without 100fsb or AGP slot. It works fine and stable at 4x75fsb (300mhz). Also the 4x multi works on this board without a mod (needs the 2x setting on this one). Downside is that it's a low performing board so any TX board with a normal 233mhz mmx cpu clocked at 3,5x 75fsb would be just as fast, 3,5x83mhz on a good board would be a bit faster.

Thank you for the tests, I will try the GA-5AX, now that i'm thinking I could try the Asus P55T2P4, may I ask which revision of GA-5AX did you try? I will test the gigabyte again with both my tillamook and report back.

Reply 38 of 45, by meljor

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2020-06-22, 19:31:
meljor wrote on 2020-06-22, 18:57:
I have tested quite a few boards with a Tillamook (with and without mods on the cpu). […]
Show full quote

I have tested quite a few boards with a Tillamook (with and without mods on the cpu).

3 different versions of the Epox mvp3 board: NO GO.
Aopen ax59pro: NO GO
Asus P5A and P5A-B (every revision of these boards as well) : NO GO
Asus SP97-V: NO GO
Asus SP98agp-X: NO GO
2 different mvp3 DFI boards: NO GO

Asus TX97 (2 versions): GO (but even with modded cpu no working cache)

Tested several others that wouldn't work (some boot but cache not working even with the mods).

What does work? (And works well) are the gigabyte GA-5AX and GA-5AA ali V boards (with modded cpu cache works fine!). I would love to get one of my Asus SS7 boards working but it seems that very few Asus boards even boot without cache enabled.. maybe they are missing some sort of micro code in their bios? Imho the Asus boards are the fastest, they always came on top when doing benchmarks with a k6-3+ CPU. But the Gigabyte boards are still fine performers and I think the best bet for Tillamook setups . My Tillamooks are the 266mhz versions with the same packaging as the normal mmx cpu.

Only board I didn't test back then is the FIC 503+. I do have one but i HATE the massive amount of jumpers on that board.

The ONLY board I know of that works without any mods and with working cache (tested myself) is a ECS P5SJ-A. Its a SiS chipset but unfortunately for me without 100fsb or AGP slot. It works fine and stable at 4x75fsb (300mhz). Also the 4x multi works on this board without a mod (needs the 2x setting on this one). Downside is that it's a low performing board so any TX board with a normal 233mhz mmx cpu clocked at 3,5x 75fsb would be just as fast, 3,5x83mhz on a good board would be a bit faster.

Thank you for the tests, I will try the GA-5AX, now that i'm thinking I could try the Asus P55T2P4, may I ask which revision of GA-5AX did you try? I will test the gigabyte again with both my tillamook and report back.

It was the 5.1 revision of the board.

asus tx97-e, 233mmx, voodoo1, s3 virge ,sb16
asus p5a, k6-3+ @ 550mhz, voodoo2 12mb sli, gf2 gts, awe32
asus p3b-f, p3-700, voodoo3 3500TV agp, awe64
asus tusl2-c, p3-S 1,4ghz, voodoo5 5500, live!
asus a7n8x DL, barton cpu, 6800ultra, Voodoo3 pci, audigy1

Reply 39 of 45, by mothergoose729

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luckybob wrote on 2020-04-20, 02:26:

EWW. 2.7V is REALLY scary. I mean if you are keeping it at sub-ambient temps it might be okay, but even so I'd expect that chip to fail in short order. I feel 10% voltage boost is the MAXIMUM safe overclocking voltage.

It could also be totally fine. Nobody knows what voltages or temperatures are safe, really. Everything we tell each other is largely made up.