I would lean more towards SS7 for DOS compatibility. You have a really good range of processors and with a MMX or a K6+ cpu you can use setmul to really dial in for speed sensitive games. For a pure DOS PC SS7 is the way to go I think. 440BX is touted as being an ultra stable chipset over those that you would find on a SS7 ALI or VIA but in DOS I don't think that is too much of a concern.

I recently refreshed my Socket 5 pure DOS system with a SS7 to push higher resolution DOS games. Everything just runs better on it (and it happened to like my new KVM unlike the Socket 5 build which yelled every time I booted it up).

uATX combined with <2000 systems is a challenge - I'd search first then choose from the options. Agreed that with the DOS 1987-1997 SS7 is a better idea , particularly with Via MVP3 chipset as it has the most clocking options - but SS7 uATX boards are rare beasts, in those days ATX=high-end, smaller boards tended to be AT. Main advice here: avoid PC-Chips.

Failing SS7 uATX, you definitely have more choice with Slot1 or for that matter So370 PPGA (Mendocino). A board to look out for there is the Intel MU440EX, uATX with ATi Rage and Yamaha YMF7x4 onboard. It's usually OEM, but rock-solid quality, and pairs very nicely with a Mendocino CPU and that sound chip is great for DOS. A lot of uATX board from this time are OEM. Also avoid PC-Chips.

My guess is that uATX Slot 1 is easier to find than SS7, but prices shouldn't be too different. Note that local conditions can differ quite a bit, for any questions regarding availability and price it's always good to say where you are located.

You already have a Socket 370 system, try throwing a Via C3 in it! S370 is also quite available in mATX with ISA and often onboard video/sound.

Via C3 and K6+ cpus both slow down to approx the same lowest speed, but the C3 has better stepping between low and high.

mbliss11 wrote on 2020-10-01, 20:02:

I would lean more towards SS7 for DOS compatibility. You have a really good range of processors and with a MMX or a K6+ cpu you can use setmul to really dial in for speed sensitive games. For a pure DOS PC SS7 is the way to go I think. 440BX is touted as being an ultra stable chipset over those that you would find on a SS7 ALI or VIA but in DOS I don't think that is too much of a concern.

I recently refreshed my Socket 5 pure DOS system with a SS7 to push higher resolution DOS games. Everything just runs better on it (and it happened to like my new KVM unlike the Socket 5 build which yelled every time I booted it up).

Great, so +1 to SS7 for compatibility.

dionb wrote on 2020-10-01, 20:13:

uATX combined with <2000 systems is a challenge - I'd search first then choose from the options. Agreed that with the DOS 1987-1997 SS7 is a better idea , particularly with Via MVP3 chipset as it has the most clocking options - but SS7 uATX boards are rare beasts, in those days ATX=high-end, smaller boards tended to be AT. Main advice here: avoid PC-Chips.

Failing SS7 uATX, you definitely have more choice with Slot1 or for that matter So370 PPGA (Mendocino). A board to look out for there is the Intel MU440EX, uATX with ATi Rage and Yamaha YMF7x4 onboard. It's usually OEM, but rock-solid quality, and pairs very nicely with a Mendocino CPU and that sound chip is great for DOS. A lot of uATX board from this time are OEM. Also avoid PC-Chips.

My guess is that uATX Slot 1 is easier to find than SS7, but prices shouldn't be too different. Note that local conditions can differ quite a bit, for any questions regarding availability and price it's always good to say where you are located.

I did find a SS7 uATX board on eBay for around $60 (I'm in the US), is that a fair price? I will definitely avoid PC-Chips 😀

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-01, 20:15:

You already have a Socket 370 system, try throwing a Via C3 in it! S370 is also quite available in mATX with ISA and often onboard video/sound.

Via C3 and K6+ cpus both slow down to approx the same lowest speed, but the C3 has better stepping between low and high.

I did consider it, but the system doesn't have an ISA slot, and I wasn't able to get the YMF744 to work on it either. I figured I was more likely to find an ISA slot on Socket 1 and SS7 than Socket 370.

Actually, I just found a Socket 370 uATX board with an ISA slot for much cheaper than anything with Socket 1 or SS7. This might be the cheapest way to get what I want!

Is the Via C3 really as compatible as the 440BX+PII or SS7+K6+ combinations for DOS games from 1989 - 1997?

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-01, 20:43:

I did consider it, but the system doesn't have an ISA slot, and I wasn't able to get the YMF744 to work on it either. I figured I was more likely to find an ISA slot on Socket 1 and SS7 than Socket 370.

Most s370 boards have ISA, only later tualatin ones don't mostly. Its true SS7 will more often have more ISA, but you are giving up mATX, maybe USB, better HDD bios support, onboard video/sound in some cases, and s370 is much cheaper than good SS7 boards. Not that I am discouraging SS7, I run both, but I would not rule out S370 just because of your current board.

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-01, 21:56:

Actually, I just found a Socket 370 uATX board with an ISA slot for much cheaper than anything with Socket 1 or SS7. This might be the cheapest way to get what I want!

Is the Via C3 really as compatible as the 440BX+PII or SS7+K6+ combinations for DOS games from 1989 - 1997?

Yes s370 is definitely cheaper, and C3 cpus are usually cheaper than good K6-2/3+ CPUs.

The C3 is *more* compatible than the K6+ as they both go down to similar low speeds (around slow-386), but the C3 scales much better in the middle, so you will be able to hit a 486DX2-66 and a P90 for example. On the top end a C3 should handle games up to 1998 (e.g. Quake2, Unreal). Look for C3s with 100mhz FSB speeds, (e.g. 8x100, 10x100), as they will be slower at the lowest clock multiplier (3x) using setmul.

One this to be aware of with S370 boards is they often have the Via Apollo Pro 133 chipset - which is known to have issues with AGP and also the SB Live! sound card. But for pure DOS, you probably won't notice those issies.

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:04:

...
One this to be aware of with S370 boards is they often have the Via Apollo Pro 133 chipset - which is known to have issues with AGP and also the SB Live! sound card. But for pure DOS, you probably won't notice those issies.

What about VIA PLE133T VT8601T + VT686B chipsets? Any issues with these?

I see that it comes with onboard Sound Blaster! Does that work in DOS?

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:13:

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:04:

...
One this to be aware of with S370 boards is they often have the Via Apollo Pro 133 chipset - which is known to have issues with AGP and also the SB Live! sound card. But for pure DOS, you probably won't notice those issies.

What about VIA PLE133T VT8601T + VT686B chipsets? Any issues with these?

I see that it comes with onboard Sound Blaster! Does that work in DOS?

Unless you are running Win98 I doubt you will have issues. Nice it comes with a soundBlaster, and I guess there is a very good chance the BIOS will have SB16 legacy settings to allow it to work in DOS, yes.

Awesome! I went for it! It's a MSI MS-6368, and according to the manual it has the SB16 legacy settings in the BIOS. Also, the Trident Blade IGP doesn't seem to be too bad according to this page. This really does seem like the best cheapest option after all!

Any recommendation on which C3 CPU I should get? According to the motherboard manual, it should support pretty much any C3 out there:

CPU […]
Show full quote

CPU

• Socket 370 for Intel® Celeron®/Coppermine®/Tualatin processors and VIA C3™ processor
  􀁺
• Supports 500MHZ, 533MHz., 550MHz, 667MHz, 700Mhz, 750MHz, 800MHz, 850MHz, 933MHz, 950MHz, 1GHz, 1.13GHz, 1.2GHz and above

I've acquired three µATX Slot 1 440BX boards in the past year as part of a similar project.

• Intel SR440BX: No AGP slot (onboard Riva TNT), ISA slot. Onboard Sound Blaster PCI 64. €73 (~£55) from Germany (CPU and RAM were included).
• Acer V66M: AGP slot, ISA slot. Onboard ESS Solo-1 sound. £25 from UK.
• MSI MS-6156 BX7: AGP slot, ISA slot. Onboard Ensoniq ES1373 sound. £35 from UK.

The Acer board is from an Aptiva 2163, and according to the manual the 2158 model was a µATX Socket 7 board with onboard graphics. I/O shield for both is non-standard, though.

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:47:

Awesome! I went for it! It's a MSI MS-6368, and according to the manual it has the SB16 legacy settings in the BIOS. Also, the Trident Blade IGP doesn't seem to be too bad according to this page. This really does seem like the best cheapest option after all!

Any recommendation on which C3 CPU I should get? According to the motherboard manual, it should support pretty much any C3 out there:

CPU […]
Show full quote

CPU

• Socket 370 for Intel® Celeron®/Coppermine®/Tualatin processors and VIA C3™ processor
  􀁺
• Supports 500MHZ, 533MHz., 550MHz, 667MHz, 700Mhz, 750MHz, 800MHz, 850MHz, 933MHz, 950MHz, 1GHz, 1.13GHz, 1.2GHz and above

Which one did get you get? 3xPCI and 1xISA? Lack of AGP is not a big issue if it comes with onboard VGA, but PCI graphics cards are a little bit rarer and more expensive than AGP. I strongly recommend a S3 Virge DX/GX for DOS gaming, and if you are looking for an ISA sound card as well as the onboard, try an ESS Audiodrive or good Opti/Crystal card.

mATX S370 systems are my favorite DOS/Win98 rigs, as they allow the most compact and versatile builds you can make. The C3 can also be run with a passive heatsink so it will be very quiet as well.

As for the C3, aim for something >600mhz with a 100mhz FSB. The 1000/100 one is fairly common and can often be got at a good price from China.

Big Pink wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:57:

I've acquired three µATX Slot 1 440BX boards in the past year as part of a similar project. […]
Show full quote

I've acquired three µATX Slot 1 440BX boards in the past year as part of a similar project.

• Intel SR440BX: No AGP slot (onboard Riva TNT), ISA slot. Onboard Sound Blaster PCI 64. €73 (~£55) from Germany (CPU and RAM were included).
• Acer V66M: AGP slot, ISA slot. Onboard ESS Solo-1 sound. £25 from UK.
• MSI MS-6156 BX7: AGP slot, ISA slot. Onboard Ensoniq ES1373 sound. £35 from UK.

The Acer board is from an Aptiva 2163, and according to the manual the 2158 model was a µATX Socket 7 board with onboard graphics. I/O shield for both is non-standard, though.

Those all look like great prices. I haven't seen anything like that stateside in the past couple of weeks I have been looking.

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:59:

Which one did get you get? 3xPCI and 1xISA? Lack of AGP is not a big issue if it comes with onboard VGA, but PCI graphics cards are a little bit rarer and more expensive than AGP. I strongly recommend a S3 Virge DX/GX for DOS gaming, and if you are looking for an ISA sound card as well as the onboard, try an ESS Audiodrive or good Opti/Crystal card.

mATX S370 systems are my favorite DOS/Win98 rigs, as they allow the most compact and versatile builds you can make. The C3 can also be run with a passive heatsink so it will be very quiet as well.

As for the C3, aim for something >600mhz with a 100mhz FSB. The 1000/100 one is fairly common and can often be got at a good price from China.

I got the 3xPCI, 1xISA and 1xAGP. I have the S3 Virge DX on my radar. I'm guessing it should be good for early DOS games, while the Trident Blade IGP should be better for late DOS games. I'm hoping I don't need an ISA sound card as they are so expensive. Any chance my YMF744 PCI card will work on this system?

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-02, 00:24:

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-01, 22:59:

Which one did get you get? 3xPCI and 1xISA? Lack of AGP is not a big issue if it comes with onboard VGA, but PCI graphics cards are a little bit rarer and more expensive than AGP. I strongly recommend a S3 Virge DX/GX for DOS gaming, and if you are looking for an ISA sound card as well as the onboard, try an ESS Audiodrive or good Opti/Crystal card.

mATX S370 systems are my favorite DOS/Win98 rigs, as they allow the most compact and versatile builds you can make. The C3 can also be run with a passive heatsink so it will be very quiet as well.

As for the C3, aim for something >600mhz with a 100mhz FSB. The 1000/100 one is fairly common and can often be got at a good price from China.

I got the 3xPCI, 1xISA and 1xAGP. I have the S3 Virge DX on my radar. I'm guessing it should be good for early DOS games, while the Trident Blade IGP should be better for late DOS games. I'm hoping I don't need an ISA sound card as they are so expensive. Any chance my YMF744 PCI card will work on this system?

They aren't all expensive, the ess audiodrive is cheap and good. Ymf744 is best with sblink header, which you don't have if you have on board sound present.

I think I'm going to follow the instructions in this thread and use the onboard Sound Blaster + the YMF744 for OPL3 FM and the extra gameport. If that doesn't work, I will look out for an ISA sound card.

Is this VIA C3-1.0AGHz CPU Ezra 1000MHz 1GHz 100x10 fine to get?

enaiel wrote on 2020-10-02, 01:11:

I think I'm going to follow the instructions in this thread and use the onboard Sound Blaster + the YMF744 for OPL3 FM and the extra gameport. If that doesn't work, I will look out for an ISA sound card.

Is this VIA C3-1.0AGHz CPU Ezra 1000MHz 1GHz 100x10 fine to get?

I use that cpu and it's good. Make sure you set the board to use 100mhz fsb.

kolderman wrote on 2020-10-02, 01:23:

I use that cpu and it's good. Make sure you set the board to use 100mhz fsb.

I bought it. Now just have to wait for the parts to arrive. Thanks so much for your help!

Have fun! Personally I would save up for a voodoo3 agp and a yamaha ymf719 isa sound card and throw win98 on there too.