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First post, by Unrealcpu

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So I have a sound blaster CT1600 and really sad about it not having MPU 401 support.

Can I run two sound cards? I heard this is the setup I should use below. Also which sound card has that perfect soundblaster 1600 CT speech for old dos games and is adlib compatible as well as MPU 401?

What do I do ? Play Mt-32 music through a MPU 401 card and just run a sound blaster pro 2.0 1600CT for adlib /or other speech /and older dos games?

I guess I need to configure dos ? autoexc bat? or install 2 drivers?

If you want a Pro and a 16/AWE to work together, here is the ideal resource setup :

Pro = A220 I7 D1

16/AWE = A240 (260 280) I10 D0 H5 P330

Of course, with a PnP card, you can disable a few resources, but choosing PnP resources is like wrestling with Hulk Hogan. (Maybe not that bad, but still). The 16 is still quite usable with these settings if the game supports choosing the resources in the install program or actually looks at the SET BLASTER variable.

Of course, add a Gravis Ultrasound to the mix, and it gets eve more fun.

Reply 1 of 60, by darry

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SoftMPU ( http://bjt42.github.io/softmpu/ ) should work on a CT1600 , possibly with reduced compatibility. SoftMPU does require EMM386.EXE , however . That said, most (possibly all games) games that support the MT-32 through an MPU-401 in intelligent mode will be old enough to not mind EMM386.EXE . Some newer one may not like EMM38.EXE , but those will generally run a "dumb" (UART only) MPU-401 , like the one present on most sound cards .

As for SB Pro compatibly sound cards with an MPU-401 compatible interface :

- Orpheus with PC-MIDI (supports intelligent mode MPU-401 natively)
- Orpheus without PC-MIDI (dumb mode MPU-401, but work with SoftMPU)
- Yamaha YMF71x based cards (possibly the older YMF70x as well) have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Aztech Labs sound cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Crystal Semiconductor based cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Opti based cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)

You can have and AWE/SB16 with an SB Pro in the same machine . That resource setup should work .
I have and AWE64 , an Orpheus, a Gravis Ultrasound and an SB Live! in the same machine . Everything works and there are no resource conflicts (except that one of the joystick had to be disabled)

Reply 2 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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darry wrote on 2020-10-29, 03:22:
SoftMPU ( http://bjt42.github.io/softmpu/ ) should work on a CT1600 , possibly with reduced compatibility. SoftMPU does require […]
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SoftMPU ( http://bjt42.github.io/softmpu/ ) should work on a CT1600 , possibly with reduced compatibility. SoftMPU does require EMM386.EXE , however . That said, most (possibly all games) games that support the MT-32 through an MPU-401 in intelligent mode will be old enough to not mind EMM386.EXE . Some newer one may not like EMM38.EXE , but those will generally run a "dumb" (UART only) MPU-401 , like the one present on most sound cards .

As for SB Pro compatibly sound cards with an MPU-401 compatible interface :

- Orpheus with PC-MIDI (supports intelligent mode MPU-401 natively)
- Orpheus without PC-MIDI (dumb mode MPU-401, but work with SoftMPU)
- Yamaha YMF71x based cards (possibly the older YMF70x as well) have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Aztech Labs sound cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Crystal Semiconductor based cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)
- Many Opti based cards have a real OPL3 , SB Pro compatibility and a dumb (UART) MPU-401 (can be used with SoftMPU)

You can have and AWE/SB16 with an SB Pro in the same machine . That resource setup should work .
I have and AWE64 , an Orpheus, a Gravis Ultrasound and an SB Live! in the same machine . Everything works and there are no resource conflicts (except that one of the joystick had to be disabled)

thanks for the help , i have alot of sound cards ,

sound blaster 64 awe gold
aureal cards but i think these are too new
sound blaster awe 64
sound blaster awe 32
aztech card

no gravis cards or orpheius

Which one should i add? t o work with the MT-32?

I am not aware of soft mpuu 401 is this a program , i am clueless on this. Does phil have a video?
Thanks

Reply 3 of 60, by Pierre32

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SoftMPU is an EXE that runs as a TSR (so it eats a little memory). You just run it before you run your applicable game, or throw it in autoexec if you like.

You should try it first, without installing any additional cards. (Even if you do put one of your other cards in, you're still going to have to use SoftMPU for the MT-32, unless you buy a sound card that doesn't require it).

If you run into any issues on the CT1600, check the SoftMPU compatibility list for something else that matches: https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compatible-Sound-Cards ...but I think you will be fine.

When selecting the card(s) to use, you should also cross reference this list so you can avoid the hanging note bug: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hanging_note_bug ...again I think you are in good shape here.

Reply 4 of 60, by dionb

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-29, 06:24:

[...]

thanks for the help , i have alot of sound cards ,

sound blaster 64 awe gold

Minor slowdown issues (noticeable in Tie Figher), not perfect, but close.

aureal cards but i think these are too new

No MIDI bugs, but depending on motherboard chipset you might need a nasty TSR to run.

sound blaster awe 64

Same as Gold

sound blaster awe 32

Depends on exact version, minimum is slowdown bug, probably also type II hanging note bug, possibly type I as well. Not recommended.

aztech card

Which one? If this is 3rd or 4th gen, it has perfect, bug-free MPU-401 and would be ideal (at least, ideal with SoftMPU)

I am not aware of soft mpuu 401 is this a program , i am clueless on this. Does phil have a video?

No idea about video's (hate the things...), but it's simple to explain:

There are two modes to address a MIDI device:
- MPU-401 (also referred to as UART mode)
- Intelligent mode

All modern MIDI stuff uses MPU-401, but really old software uses Roland's Intelligent mode. A lot of MT-32 games are that old and require intelligent mode support.

As a rule, sound cards only support MPU-401. So without additional software, you can only run games that support MPU-401. Games that require intelligent mode won't run.

Solution? There's a program called SoftMPU that performs intelligent mode function - so the game talks intelligent mode to SoftMPU and SoftMPU translates that to MPU-401 for the sound card. It's really simple and works great.

Anyway, one thing to learn is to be specific. Give exact model numbers for those sound cards and we can give you an exact answer. Probably the Aztech card is the best choice, with AWE64 Gold in second place, but if the Aztech card is too old it doesn't support MPU-401. Look for something starting with: "I38-MMSN" and then three numbers on the card. That's how we can identify them. Same with the Sound Blasters, there's "CT" and then four numbers. For the Aureal card, we'd need to know which motherboard you have.

Reply 5 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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dionb wrote on 2020-10-29, 10:02:
Minor slowdown issues (noticeable in Tie Figher), not perfect, but close. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-29, 06:24:

[...]

thanks for the help , i have alot of sound cards ,

sound blaster 64 awe gold

Minor slowdown issues (noticeable in Tie Figher), not perfect, but close.

aureal cards but i think these are too new

No MIDI bugs, but depending on motherboard chipset you might need a nasty TSR to run.

sound blaster awe 64

Same as Gold

sound blaster awe 32

Depends on exact version, minimum is slowdown bug, probably also type II hanging note bug, possibly type I as well. Not recommended.

aztech card

Which one? If this is 3rd or 4th gen, it has perfect, bug-free MPU-401 and would be ideal (at least, ideal with SoftMPU)

I am not aware of soft mpuu 401 is this a program , i am clueless on this. Does phil have a video?

No idea about video's (hate the things...), but it's simple to explain:

There are two modes to address a MIDI device:
- MPU-401 (also referred to as UART mode)
- Intelligent mode

All modern MIDI stuff uses MPU-401, but really old software uses Roland's Intelligent mode. A lot of MT-32 games are that old and require intelligent mode support.

As a rule, sound cards only support MPU-401. So without additional software, you can only run games that support MPU-401. Games that require intelligent mode won't run.

Solution? There's a program called SoftMPU that performs intelligent mode function - so the game talks intelligent mode to SoftMPU and SoftMPU translates that to MPU-401 for the sound card. It's really simple and works great.

Anyway, one thing to learn is to be specific. Give exact model numbers for those sound cards and we can give you an exact answer. Probably the Aztech card is the best choice, with AWE64 Gold in second place, but if the Aztech card is too old it doesn't support MPU-401. Look for something starting with: "I38-MMSN" and then three numbers on the card. That's how we can identify them. Same with the Sound Blasters, there's "CT" and then four numbers. For the Aureal card, we'd need to know which motherboard you have.

Thanks for all your help on this , really appreciate the knowledge you have.

the aztecg card i have is a i38-mmsn822

Reply 6 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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Pierre32 wrote on 2020-10-29, 06:35:
SoftMPU is an EXE that runs as a TSR (so it eats a little memory). You just run it before you run your applicable game, or throw […]
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SoftMPU is an EXE that runs as a TSR (so it eats a little memory). You just run it before you run your applicable game, or throw it in autoexec if you like.

You should try it first, without installing any additional cards. (Even if you do put one of your other cards in, you're still going to have to use SoftMPU for the MT-32, unless you buy a sound card that doesn't require it).

If you run into any issues on the CT1600, check the SoftMPU compatibility list for something else that matches: https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compatible-Sound-Cards ...but I think you will be fine.

When selecting the card(s) to use, you should also cross reference this list so you can avoid the hanging note bug: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Hanging_note_bug ...again I think you are in good shape here.

I am curious to know how do I install MT-32 roland drivers? Or do I just plug everything into the sound card say my aztech card and run the game selecting mt-32 sound?

I really would prefer to run 2 sound cards if possible but it would seem soft mp401 is just as good with a sound blaster CT1600?

Reply 7 of 60, by schlomoe99

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I have the CT1600 in one of my machines and use SoftMPU with it, and I agree with some of the comments regarding reduced software compatibility. Warcraft II and the Secret of Monkey Island, for instance, run flawlessly. Duke Nukem 3D, Panzer General, and Sim City 2000 do not. Your mileage may vary, but you just need to ask yourself which games you want to play and whether you want to run them on a genuine Soundblaster Pro 2.0 or whether the above compatible sound cards would be satisfactory for your wants. In this hobby, there are a lot of tradeoffs with original hardware. Frankly, I am amazed at some of the ongoing projects that continue to improve decades-old hardware. SoftMPU is one such example, another that comes to mind is the UNISOUND driver. Good luck!

Reply 8 of 60, by schlomoe99

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-29, 17:23:

I am curious to know how do I install MT-32 roland drivers? Or do I just plug everything into the sound card say my aztech card and run the game selecting mt-32 sound?

I really would prefer to run 2 sound cards if possible but it would seem soft mp401 is just as good with a sound blaster CT1600?

The MT-32 is just a sound module for professional musicians that got popular for a time with game developers. Check out examples of the MT-32 on King's Quest IV, for example, or of Space Quest III.

The Roland MT-32 doesn't use drivers, per se. Either a game specifically included support for the MT-32 or it did not. All the game does is it looks for is a compatible port, usually P330 or sometimes P300 may be used. The problem is, some games need "intelligent mode" MPU-401 interface ports for music, which SoftMPU can provide in many cases through emulation. MT-32 predates the General MIDI standard, although it is possible to pass a Sysex file to the MT-32 telling it to understand General MIDI format, though not 100% perfectly. This would have to be done before you launch the game.

Reply 9 of 60, by dionb

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-29, 17:21:

[...]

Thanks for all your help on this , really appreciate the knowledge you have.

the aztecg card i have is a i38-mmsn822

Ah, 2nd gen...

There are conflicting reports about compatibility of these cards, they're supposed to support SBPro2 (i.e. everthing your CT1600 does), but then with MPU-401 added, but some say only SB2.0 (mono) works well. Still, the MPU-401 should be solid.

Description and link to driver:
https://retronn.de/imports/hwgal/hw_aztech_azt1605.html

If you want two cards as you say it's easy:
- use the MMSN822 for AdLib (OPL2/3), SBPro (if it works) and MPU-401 (to connect your MT-32)
- use the AWE64 Gold for SB16 and AWE
Just make sure they have different resources, so set the MMSN822 to Address 220, IRQ 7, DMA 1, MIDI Port 330, Type 4 and the AWE64 to Address 240, IRQ 5, DMA 0 (or 3) High 5, Port 300, AWE 530, Type 6
(note that you need to disable the parallel port to free up IRQ 7)

Reply 10 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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dionb wrote on 2020-10-29, 18:16:
Ah, 2nd gen... […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-29, 17:21:

[...]

Thanks for all your help on this , really appreciate the knowledge you have.

the aztecg card i have is a i38-mmsn822

Ah, 2nd gen...

There are conflicting reports about compatibility of these cards, they're supposed to support SBPro2 (i.e. everthing your CT1600 does), but then with MPU-401 added, but some say only SB2.0 (mono) works well. Still, the MPU-401 should be solid.

Description and link to driver:
https://retronn.de/imports/hwgal/hw_aztech_azt1605.html

If you want two cards as you say it's easy:
- use the MMSN822 for AdLib (OPL2/3), SBPro (if it works) and MPU-401 (to connect your MT-32)
- use the AWE64 Gold for SB16 and AWE
Just make sure they have different resources, so set the MMSN822 to Address 220, IRQ 7, DMA 1, MIDI Port 330, Type 4 and the AWE64 to Address 240, IRQ 5, DMA 0 (or 3) High 5, Port 300, AWE 530, Type 6
(note that you need to disable the parallel port to free up IRQ 7)

Thanks I will try it with AWE64 Gold and Aztech , it looks like the SB16 cards have shot up in price o r are rare now? I am also about to start softmpu and test that as well.
Thanks for your help

Reply 11 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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well I am totally stumped , running win98se , start up in dos

have my cables plugged into the MT32 "input" and to the joystick port of the CT1600 . some reason my sound card driver is only detecting on irq 5 not 7 , not sure if this matter, When running softmpu. I get a low level driver error and cannot run sbproset if on Irq7

i did softmpu SOFTMPU.EXE /SB:220 /IRQ:5 /MPU:330 /output:SBmidi

Looks like it finds everything not sure what i am missing here ,

ran ultima 6 config for Roland mt-32 no sound or music.
ran f117 stealth fighter selected Roland and i get no sound or music

sound blaster CT1600 works in games no problem without the MT32

My MT-32 works in DOSBOX with a USB midi cable

Reply 12 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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disregard my last message regarding my issue getting my mt-32 to work

i just got it working on wing commander and sounds amazing on my CT1600. However I think i now want to install a AWE64 for full MPU401 support

how would i do this? install the sound card and then install AWE64 dos drivers? set my irq to like 5?
Not sure why i cannot set my CT1600 to IRQ 7 any idea , it has been over a decade since i messed with dos machines and irqs.
Thanks!

Reply 14 of 60, by kolderman

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 04:55:

I guess only like 58 games are compatible with the CT1600 intelligent m ode, i guess i will need to use a AWE 64 to get all the games working?

What ct1600 intelligent mode?

Reply 15 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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kolderman wrote on 2020-10-30, 06:41:
Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 04:55:

I guess only like 58 games are compatible with the CT1600 intelligent m ode, i guess i will need to use a AWE 64 to get all the games working?

What ct1600 intelligent mode?

softmpu

how do you get a second sound card installed? change the irq? dont get this

Reply 16 of 60, by keropi

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 08:15:

how do you get a second sound card installed? change the irq? dont get this

as long as there are no IRQ/DMA/address conflicts you can install as many soundcards as you want in a system
but more than 2 it becomes tricky

🎵Link to buy a PCMIDI mpu
🎧Orpheus soundcard project
💻WTB Amstrad PC7486SLC-33 system

Reply 17 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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keropi wrote on 2020-10-30, 09:29:
Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 08:15:

how do you get a second sound card installed? change the irq? dont get this

as long as there are no IRQ/DMA/address conflicts you can install as many soundcards as you want in a system
but more than 2 it becomes tricky

Does the motherboard automatically assign the address and will the driver pick it up or do I just assign them in the driver?

also I am very interested in this product

Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support

do you think orpheus is the way to go for a one sound card solution? I want sound blaster pro 2.0 sound or even sb16 combined. Not sure if this is possible. along with full mp401

Thanks

Reply 18 of 60, by keropi

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 17:33:
Does the motherboard automatically assign the address and will the driver pick it up or do I just assign them in the driver? als […]
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Does the motherboard automatically assign the address and will the driver pick it up or do I just assign them in the driver?
also I am very interested in this product
Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support
do you think orpheus is the way to go for a one sound card solution? I want sound blaster pro 2.0 sound or even sb16 combined. Not sure if this is possible. along with full mp401
Thanks

some cards have jumpers, some have software setups to allocate resources... it depends on card
I assume you want SBPRO2.0 compatibility? Then only a real SBPRO2 will be 100% compatible I'm afraid... if you really mean SB2 + SB16 then a nice SB16 like the CT2230 will offer that.
With a separate mpu401 interface (or softmpu) you can mix and match until you find a combo that works best for your needs IMHO

🎵Link to buy a PCMIDI mpu
🎧Orpheus soundcard project
💻WTB Amstrad PC7486SLC-33 system

Reply 19 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support

keropi wrote on 2020-10-30, 19:20:
some cards have jumpers, some have software setups to allocate resources... it depends on card I assume you want SBPRO2.0 compa […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 17:33:
Does the motherboard automatically assign the address and will the driver pick it up or do I just assign them in the driver? als […]
Show full quote

Does the motherboard automatically assign the address and will the driver pick it up or do I just assign them in the driver?
also I am very interested in this product
Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support
do you think orpheus is the way to go for a one sound card solution? I want sound blaster pro 2.0 sound or even sb16 combined. Not sure if this is possible. along with full mp401
Thanks

some cards have jumpers, some have software setups to allocate resources... it depends on card
I assume you want SBPRO2.0 compatibility? Then only a real SBPRO2 will be 100% compatible I'm afraid... if you really mean SB2 + SB16 then a nice SB16 like the CT2230 will offer that.
With a separate mpu401 interface (or softmpu) you can mix and match until you find a combo that works best for your needs IMHO

Thanks I remember now. IRQ settings are on the sound card with jumpers . I can figure it out. What about this sound card that was just developed?Re: Orpheus Soundcard: a new DOS soundcard with SPDIF/OPL3/MPU support

how is the sbpro 2.0 sound for old dos games and I see it has MPU401 full support.