Socket A-K7Mobile:
AMD Geode NX 1500+ 1.0GHz (Typical 6W, Max 9w)
Motherboard: AsRock K7S41GX socket A Rev v1.04 (Halt@Idle enabled bios)
GPU: Geforce2MX/MX 400 (4W)
Sound: Integrated or add
Memory: 1xddr stick with half memory modules on ram pcb
HDD: SSD with converter or 2.5" ide with 2.5 to 3.5 ide cable
PSU: 90+ Gold

I do have two Socket A-K7Mobile, but none beats the 700MHz coppermine. Are geodes hard to get/expensive? Do they run on normal motherboards?

Quiet impressive the geforce2 mx!

Sound doesn't matter much energy wise?

Regarding the memory do you mean those modules with only one side populated?

SSD good call!

PSU seems too much investment though.

What about CRT vs LED?

Should I consider a laptop?
Thanks

As for coppemine CPU's: One can take any of the 133MHz FSB models, then underclock it by running it at 100MHz FSB. In addition undervolt it to 1,3V. Undervolting can be done by using a proper slotket adapter for a Socket 370 CPU in a slot-1 board, or by taping the Slot-1 connector of a Slot-1 CPU.

What is the reasoning behind wanting a super low wattage Windows 98 machine?

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-07-12, 17:58:

What is the reasoning behind wanting a super low wattage Windows 98 machine?

Countries like Germany have very high energy prices because of the Ukraine war, so I can understand that. A mini-PC with a first-generation Intel Atom single-core should also be a good choice, but I don't know about Windows 98 compatibility.

Is this a little off the wall? (Intel Atom)
Re: micro ITX Atom board, possible retro platform?

So n270/n450 Atom based PCs could run Windows 98 SE.

NostalgicAslinger wrote on 2023-07-12, 18:10:

Countrys like Germany, are having very high energy prices, because of the ukraine war, so I can understand this. A Mini PC with […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-07-12, 17:58:

What is the reasoning behind wanting a super low wattage Windows 98 machine?

Countrys like Germany, are having very high energy prices, because of the ukraine war, so I can understand this. A Mini PC with a first generation Intel Atom single core should be also a good choice, but I don't know how it stands around the windows 98 compatibility.

Is this a little off the wall? (Intel Atom)
Re: micro ITX Atom board, possible retro platform?

So n270/n450 Atom based PCs could run Windows 98 SE.

Sound is going to be a problem as well as any 3d accelerated graphics.

A decent choice would be a thin client with a Geode processor and a PCI slot for a video card.

gerwin wrote on 2023-07-12, 17:46:

As for coppemine CPU's: One can take any of the 133MHz FSB models, then underclock it by running it at 100MHz FSB. In addition undervolt it to 1,3V. Undervolting can be done by using a proper slotket adapter for a Socket 370 CPU in a slot-1 board, or by taping the Slot-1 connector of a Slot-1 CPU.

That 1.3V something Coppermines can generally really hit? Seems pretty drastic amount to undervolt from 1.6-1.75V to 1.3V.

But if that is actually something you can realistically hit I'll take it, less heat = quieter fan and I'm all for that.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-07-12, 18:12:

Sound is going to be a problem as well as any 3d accelerated graphics.

A decent choice would be a thin client with a Geode processor and a PCI slot for a video card.

For Socket A, I would also look for a motherboard that allows undervolting down to ~1.1V VCore. An Athlon XP-M Barton with the IQYHA stepping is also a good candidate.
You also have to do this if you use an AMD K7-based desktop PC, so that you then also have less power consumption in idle mode: Athlon XP halt state

Confused UngaBunga wrote on 2023-07-12, 17:27:

I do have two Socket A-K7Mobile, but none beats the 700MHz coppermine. Are geodes hard to get/expensive? Do they run on normal m […]
Show full quote

I do have two Socket A-K7Mobile, but none beats the 700MHz coppermine. Are geodes hard to get/expensive? Do they run on normal motherboards?

Quiet impressive the geforce2 mx!

Sound doesn't matter much energy wise?

Regarding the memory do you mean those modules with only one side populated?

SSD good call!

PSU seems too much investment though.

What about CRT vs LED?

Should I consider a laptop?
Thanks

This motherboard that i listed before, has support for it, geode cpus not easy to pick up, still possible to find. One sided memory should use less power. Laptop is the easy way. Use mobile or low power cpu for DesktopPC if you can and build from that, i just like AMD builds more.

Faster PC would be K8 S754 with Mobile Sempron or Turion64 cpu (22 to 24w ones), also only single channel so 1xmemory stick ok (single sided). If you want to stay with socket370 and cpu speed does not matter that mutch, then Celeron 533A (coppermine) has 14w usage.

I add three of my AMD Mobile builds here, that i have:

RetroPC-K6Mobile
AMD Mobile K6 266MHz (K6/266ADZ) (Max 9.8W)
Socket7 + Coolermaster Fan 60x60@5V
Aopen AX59 PRO Rev 1.04 (Latest bios 2.36)
1x256MB PC133 CL3 SDRAM-Double Sided (Infineon)
SAMSUNG Spinpoint MP0402H 40GB 5400RPM 8MB 2.5" IDE
Matrox Millennium G200A 8MB AGP (Max 4W)
Diamond Monster 3D 4MB PCI (3Dfx Voodoo)
Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE64 ISA (CT4520)
Nec 1.44MB (FD1231H)
NEC DVDRW ND-3540A
Retro ATX case 300 PSU

HTPC-K7Mobile
AMD Geode NX 1750+/Mobile Athlon XP 1600+ 1.4GHz (Max 25w)
Arctic Cooling Copper Silent 3 (Copper Lite)
AsRock K7S41GX socket A Rev v1.04 (Halt@Idle enabled bios)
Hynix 1x1GB DDR PC3200 CL3
Seagate Momentus 5400.3 ST9160821A 160GB 5400RPM 8MB ATA100 2.5"
Club 3D AMD/ATi HD3450 512MB DDR2
Integrated 5.1CH C-Media CMI9739A
Hitachi/LG Slim GSA-T40N 8x DVD±RW DL
300W Fortron FSP300-50GMN 80+
Coolermaster N200 MATX

HTPC-K8Mobile
AMD Turion 64 Mobile 1800MHz/512Kb (Max 24W)
K8 CoolerMaster Hiper MC (ECC-00126-01)
CoolerMaster Fan 70x70@5v (+WEN93626)
Asrock K8NF4G-VSTA (Socket 754)
Apacer 1x1GB DDR PC3200 CL3
Corsair Force LS SSD 60GB (CSSD-F60GBLSB)
MSI GeForce GT 720 1GB DDR3 Fanless Edition (Max 19W)
7.1 CH ALC883 Audio (DTS-HD-MA, Dolby TrueHD)
Samsung Slim Blu-ray Writer SN-506BB (+Lindy 40513,33608)
Akasa 3,5" Memory Card Reader + USB 2.0 (AK-ICR-03USB)
350W Fortron FSP350-60EGN 90+ 80 PLUS® Gold (+24pin->20pin)
White MATX (small case)

Full size ATX with ultra low voltage CPU and CF-slot, ISA.

Whatever you choose - look into which parts of your build you might be able to underclock and/or undervolt.

Maybe go with bigger heatsinks so you can passively cool things instead of having to power fans. (Good for noise too, but beware - once you've had a silent PC you won't want to go back.)

You might want to pick up a different, more efficient monitor too. People tend to forget about those.

Sombrero wrote on 2023-07-12, 18:21:

gerwin wrote on 2023-07-12, 17:46:

As for coppemine CPU's: One can take any of the 133MHz FSB models, then underclock it by running it at 100MHz FSB. In addition undervolt it to 1,3V. Undervolting can be done by using a proper slotket adapter for a Socket 370 CPU in a slot-1 board, or by taping the Slot-1 connector of a Slot-1 CPU.

That 1.3V something Coppermines can generally really hit? Seems pretty drastic amount to undervolt from 1.6-1.75V to 1.3V.

But if that is actually something you can realistically hit I'll take it, less heat = quieter fan and I'm all for that.

It is drastic indeed, especially since earlier Deschutes-core cannot undervolt much at all.
I tested it with at least three coppermine processors, and at least up to 533MHz. See last post here.
Early production coppermines running at their rated speed may struggle, but later and underclocked ones have more headroom for tweaking of this kind.
Coppermine architecture is kinda hitting its limits at around 900..1000 MHz, so I would not expect such an undervolt to work in that range.

PIII 533 is about 15W.

Cheers,

If CPU speed does not matter, then AMD K6-2+ / 3+ 400MHz/ATZ 7.1 Watt Typical / 9.5 Watt Max, best GPU to add this build is also Geforce2MX and if videocard performance also does not matter, then ATi RageXL AGP/Matrox G200A AGP are good choises ( No more than 4W for both cards). With Geforce2 MX, it would be good 2K underdog Retro build.

From Intel build and newer S775 stuff maybe go with Celeron 420 up to Celeron 450 (Max 35W), but this is alredy bit to high, if power consumpion is priority number one.

You can test you build with power-meter and you can see, how much wattage whole system takes, change parts and see difference, step by step it goes, second part is how well os and drivers work, also possible to reduce power consumption. It all takes time, but i hope you have some ways to go already and that you get your efficient pc build up and running , it should be cool and silent mostly.

I recently came about a Reddit thread that indicated that there's a Windows 98 driver for the graphics in Thin Clients like HP t5745 & t5740 which have Intel Atom N270 (2.5W). I need to test this out myself. I already have a Windows 98 compatible USB sound dongle. Also, in my testing, the HP t5745 does some absolutely wonderful things w/USB boot drives and USB drives in general. You can plug in like 6 USB drives and they all show up as BIOS hard drives and you can use the BIOS to pick which one you want to boot off of.

WHOA! And there seems to be support for the ICH9 sound too now!

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t5740/
https://www.reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations/ … _work_on_win9x/
https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2019 … or-windows.html
https://retrosystemsrevival.blogspot.com/2019 … drivers-9x.html

gerwin wrote on 2023-07-12, 20:04:

It is drastic indeed, especially since earlier Deschutes-core cannot undervolt much at all. I tested it with at least three copp […]
Show full quote

It is drastic indeed, especially since earlier Deschutes-core cannot undervolt much at all.
I tested it with at least three coppermine processors, and at least up to 533MHz. See last post here.
Early production coppermines running at their rated speed may struggle, but later and underclocked ones have more headroom for tweaking of this kind.
Coppermine architecture is kinda hitting its limits at around 900..1000 MHz, so I would not expect such an undervolt to work in that range.

Interesting. I've been running a 866MHz/133MHz Coppermine at 650MHz/100MHz as I've noticed I don't gain anything from a faster CPU in my use and at the same time slower CPU allows me to run CPU sensitive DOS games more easily. But it never even occurred to me Coppermines might also undervolt well.

I'll see how well that CPU undervolts. If it doesn't undervolt well enough to run it passive I might go and find a 500MHz/100MHz Coppermine and have a go with that. The Noctua fan I've got in there with a NA-RC12 low noise adapter isn't exactly loud but you can't beat no noise at all.

Perhaps some sort of Isa equipped Donathan build

Laptops are mostly low power of course, but some of the P4 ones most likely to be win98 capable will suck. However, I believe ppl have got early 754 which will include early turion/sempron mobile working on 98, with x300 onboard graphics. Don't forget you can plug in keyboard and external monitor if you want. For a sempron you may have to go with a usb floppy though, but some of the late pIII early P4 and socket A class mobile still came with one.

elszgensa wrote on 2023-07-12, 19:51:

Whatever you choose - look into which parts of your build you might be able to underclock and/or undervolt.

Maybe go with bigger heatsinks so you can passively cool things instead of having to power fans. (Good for noise too, but beware - once you've had a silent PC you won't want to go back.)

You might want to pick up a different, more efficient monitor too. People tend to forget about those.

Yah, I think palominos and thoroughbred socket A will underclock and undervolt down close to the geodes.

Confused UngaBunga wrote on 2023-07-12, 16:21:

What parts would you choose to build the most efficient, yet compatible, windows 98 pc?

My first thoughts were a 18W TDP 700 coppermine and a 15W Voodoo3, but maybe you can point me in a better direction?

please note that if you want energy efficienciy you must go for modern hardware yes or yes
those old pentium 3 waste lot of energy in idle , also those old motherboards alone waste lot of energy in idle and in use

in desktops PCs : the best intel generation for energy efficiency is the kaby lake and sky lake generation
from there they began to waste energy again pressured by the market to increase single core speed

ie you can purchase just by a few bucks a kaby lake/skylake mobo and a core i3 or core i5 low power , this is very efficient in idle and in use
then you can add for example a geforce 6600 pci expreess or any other member of the geforce 6 series because are the last which have drivers for win 98

if you want more energy efficiency add just a geforce 6200 instead