Shagittarius wrote:

The reason to snipe bid is because a lot of people selling on ebay bid on their own items. So you wait till there is 5 seconds left and bid so they cant run you up.

Can confirm.

I've caught this asshat doing it: https://www.ebay.com/usr/choresrus

But he still tries to sell things.

Usually they have a friend do it then you can't even tell by IP.

dr_st wrote:

You are right that it would have no benefit if everyone were rational, but since not everyone is rational (in fact most people are not rational, in fact, even you and me are not rational), and not everyone snipes, snipers have the advantage.

But I decided to delete most of my post; the fewer people learn the benefits of sniping, the better my chances are. 😜

🤣, well that doesn't help, and means I can't reply without giving away what you said 😀 (I did see it though, then had family business to attend so couldn't reply immediately 😀).

It doesn't matter though... as I said, it only applies if all the other bidders don't put their highest bid in (i.e they don't understand how auctions work). All it takes is for one other sniper and you enter a sniper bidding war with only one battle right at the end... and unless you are there watching it and increasing your bid in the last few seconds, you have no counter to someone elses higher bid. Rule 1 kicks in. Sniping or not. So it boils down to what type of bidders the others are and if they snipe higher than you. 10 years ago there wasn't much snipe bidding so being an early adopter was worth it. These days pretty much every auction I see that sells is sniped. Occasionally someone gets lucky with no other bidders, and in those situations you never know what they were willing to go up to. If there is only one bidder, doesn't matter if they sniped or not. If there is more than one we are at rule 1 again.

The psychology is very much still there, the only difference is you have changed the playing field and rather than competing against non-snipers or bidders you think may or may not be interested in the auction, you are now competing against other snipers, all of which have their cards close to their chest which basically means you are playing against poker faces with nothing to go by. As a result, you put in a lower bid than you normally would and risk missing out, then you will be annoyed with yourself because you know you could have gone higher but didn't think there was any interest and in the last min another sniper puts a higher bid in... after this happens a few times you resort to having to put a price you are happy to pay for it and hope it is the highest. Rule 1! If you want to win, and don't put your highest bid in, you may not if someone else is higher... sniping or not.

On visibility, I don't think ebay works like this. If it did, you would only see auctions with bids at the top of searches... maybe localised, but this doesn't happen on my ebay searches. I get the sponsored items and sometimes some BIN's... and then it is ordered by how soon the auction ends. I can see what others are watching, I see what others have viewed that ebay considers 'similar' auctions...

Heisenberg, if you view it, ebay logs it, only thing to do is use third-party viewer or clear your cookies after you view each listing... in which case only works if all bidders do this to hide the fact that they are viewing auction items similar to what they just viewed. So in this scenario sniping makes no difference because you have viewed it in the first place and it is out of your control if someone else views it or not. What you want pay for something shouldn't be dictated by the fact the auction has any bids or not already... only playing a game with yourself in this case, do you really want it or not? If so pay with what you are happy paying for it. You will only get the best price if no other person wants it more... Rule 1 😉

It's a strange psychology, like the Monty Halls problem, on the surface it doesn't make sense...however the bottom line are the rules which are the basic principles of an auction (how auctions work!). Given rule 2 (earliest bidder wins if final bid same between two bidders), this actually makes snipers more likely to loose to someone who bid the same earlier. They didn't need to snipe, and in fact waiting until the last couple of seconds meant they lost it and couldn’t counter.

Snipers are in a massive self-inflicted bubble of psychological games with themselves and other snipers... think of any scenario as a sniper that you could possibly win. All of them trumped by a higher bidder putting a bid down a week before...a second before, or a second after....and then we are straight back to the first principles of an auction... highest bidder, or earliest bidder if same bid wins. Rules 1 and 2. Doesn't matter if they were a sniper or not 😉

Shagittarius wrote:

The reason to snipe bid is because a lot of people selling on ebay bid on their own items. So you wait till there is 5 seconds left and bid so they cant run you up.

Shill bidding has been around since the dawn of ebay, and shill bidders can snipe? Shill sniping would be the only way a seller could guarantee not to sell an item for less than they want to by being the highest bidder (Rule 1) so your sniping doesn't stop it from happening. Of course they could guarantee from an early stage they would get the price by bidding early on a price they want it to go for.. Rule 2. No need for shill sniping, and other snipers still need to beat the sellers price so end up competing against each other, rule 1, beating the highest bidder is what is important. This could have been done at any point during the auction. Doesn't need to be within last few seconds.

If a seller doesn't put a reserve or opening bid something close to what they want to sell it for, that’s there loss and potentially your gain... but sniping had nothing to do with it. Still another higher bidder will beat you.

Essentially sniping makes no difference what so ever! It boils down to Rule 1 and Rule 2... you can't get around them. Just put what you want to pay and be done with it... no worrying about being just slightly outbid (it is what it is... if it happens, it happens) and no worries about missing the auction. Your competing with other bidders, snipers or not. Either someone wanted it more than you and was happy to pay more, or you should have put what you are happy to go up to avoid missing out on a price you would have paid. Unless the auction is lost by less than the increment, you will never know how high the winning bidder bid. If it goes for less than an increment you should have put more in the first place and you would have won... Rule 1... highest bidder wins.

🤣, yeah. Well, thanks for this lengthy post to convince others that sniping is pointless. You've done a good job, and I will just reiterate by earlier statement. 😉

I'm sorry but you're incorrect about sniping not being protection from the seller. It totally is, when you snipe, you put in the maximum bid you were going to and if your only competition is the shill seller then his only choice is to sell or cancel the auction. I know this is true I use to do it for friends all the time. Selling something you've seen going for X price but only have 2 hours left? Get your friend to bid up to the "going rate" then hope the other guy wants it bad enough to commit to just 1.00 more. When you put in a maximum bid that has no competition the seller will bid up to where the "going rate' is expecting that your maximum bid resides somewhere around there and you are already locked in to pay it. That's the play. If you're mistaken and their bid ends theres still a good chance that the interested party may return seeing that the "going rate" is close and try to increase again by just 1.00 more, whats 1.00 after all instead of losing this auction.

You avoid all this manipulation, manipulation of your max bid and manipulation of your desire for the object if you simply put in your max bid 5 seconds before time expires. When I know I'm not going to be able to snipe my bid I always bid a non manipulation maximum. I bid lower than the going rate so they run out of my bids if they try to do this.

dr_st wrote:

🤣, yeah. Well, thanks for this lengthy post to convince others that sniping is pointless. You've done a good job, and I will just reiterate by earlier statement. 😉

yeah right, what was I thinking last night.... in the interests of fair play, here is a pro tip for snipers: Bid low and bid late! Especially if it is auction I'm bidding on 😉

Shagittarius wrote:

I'm sorry but you're incorrect about sniping not being protection from the seller. It totally is, when you snipe, you put in the maximum bid you were going to and if your only competition is the shill seller then his only choice is to sell or cancel the auction.

If there are already bids on it, shill bid may have already been set, or seller will shill snipe a higher bid than your snipe. Either way sniping wouldn't get you any more chance of getting the item.

Shagittarius wrote:

I know this is true I use to do it for friends all the time. Selling something you've seen going for X price but only have 2 hours left? Get your friend to bid up to the "going rate" then hope the other guy wants it bad enough to commit to just 1.00 more.

Not something that it is good to admit to tbh! More importantly though, if you snipe you can't do this as you have no time to counter (2 hours left on an auction isn't a snipe btw), shill seller just ends up outbidding everybody and is left with an unsold item. If they didn't want to sell at that price, they wouldn't of sold it anyway... if they do want to sell, they can always give a second chance offer at the price that you bid. Whether you sniped or not.

Shagittarius wrote:

When you put in a maximum bid that has no competition the seller will bid up to where the "going rate' is expecting that your maximum bid resides somewhere around there and you are already locked in to pay it. That's the play. If you're mistaken and their bid ends theres still a good chance that the interested party may return seeing that the "going rate" is close and try to increase again by just 1.00 more, whats 1.00 after all instead of losing this auction.

If there is no other bidder, and it is you and the shill seller, you are basically competing against someone who may or may not sell the item anyway as it depends on the price they want to sell, not what someone bids... or the fact that that bidder sniped.

And this would all be beaten by someone who didn't snipe and put in their 'higher' max bid early.

Been on ebay since 2001, sniping hayday was about 2010 ish. I've been there and after thinking that by sniping I was attempting to get a better prices, then getting outsniped, it forced me to snipe my max bid, then I found (very rarely) that my snipe bid was the same as the highest bidder and they win.... so basically attempting to snipe meant I lost an auction at the price I would have paid. This was resolved by not sniping and actually getting my bid in early (rule 2). I've sniped on many auctions that I have won, but the seller still refused to sell. I leave them bad feedback. Sniping didn't help me get the item.

Notice this quote from ebay about the objections to sniping...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_sniping wrote:

The failure of a maximum acceptable bid beaten by a sniper prepared to pay more is not due to the act of sniping, unless the original bidder would have bid higher on seeing their bid exceeded. For this reason, opposition to sniping can be analyzed as more of a subjective reaction to losing an auction for the usual reason of not bidding enough, than a reaction to a "dirty trick".[8] The beaten bidder would have beaten the sniper if their maximum bid had been more than the sniper was willing to offer.

i.e If they stuck to rule 1, and imposed rule 2. An early high bidder is protected from snipers, the only caveat is after the auction ends they realise they would be paying more than they thought they were going to pay 30 seconds before the auction ends, but it's still within their max bid (what they wanted to pay) so it doesn't matter. Sniping made no impact to the end result of wining within their max bid or not.

Shagittarius wrote:

You avoid all this manipulation, manipulation of your max bid and manipulation of your desire for the object if you simply put in your max bid 5 seconds before time expires. When I know I'm not going to be able to snipe my bid I always bid a non manipulation maximum. I bid lower than the going rate so they run out of my bids if they try to do this.

And all this would be pointless if another bidder already bid either a higher bid (Rule 1) or your max bid before you (Rule 2).

I persoanlly don't have a problem with sniping, as I said, in fact, snipers who think they were going to get a better deal waiting till the end means they don't have time to counter when they realise their bid wasn't high enough. I don't think ... ah damn bloddy snipers making me pay more, because at the end of the day the sniper was still a bidder... they just didn't bid as high as me and couldn't counter even if they wanted to go higher. So its pointless.

The point is there is no other bidder except the seller who is trying to run you up to your maximum bid. I don't think that's fair, I can't understand why someone would be fine with that. There are penalties on ebay when you don't actually sell a won auction.

I may have misunderstood you, I don't have a problem with snipe bids either, I think they are helpful to protect yourself from fraudulent bidders.

spiroyster wrote:

I found (very rarely) that my snipe bid was the same as the highest bidder and they win.... so basically attempting to snipe meant I lost an auction at the price I would have paid.

As you understood, I'm not going to go to lengths to explain the benefits of sniping, but this specific risk is one grossly exaggerated. The odds of someone making the exact same bid as you is actually very very small, if you know how to bid properly. Think about it... 😀

Shagittarius wrote:

I'm sorry but you're incorrect about sniping not being protection from the seller. It totally is, when you snipe, you put in the maximum bid you were going to and if your only competition is the shill seller then his only choice is to sell or cancel the auction. I know this is true I use to do it for friends all the time. Selling something you've seen going for X price but only have 2 hours left? Get your friend to bid up to the "going rate" then hope the other guy wants it bad enough to commit to just 1.00 more. When you put in a maximum bid that has no competition the seller will bid up to where the "going rate' is expecting that your maximum bid resides somewhere around there and you are already locked in to pay it. That's the play. If you're mistaken and their bid ends theres still a good chance that the interested party may return seeing that the "going rate" is close and try to increase again by just 1.00 more, whats 1.00 after all instead of losing this auction.

You avoid all this manipulation, manipulation of your max bid and manipulation of your desire for the object if you simply put in your max bid 5 seconds before time expires. When I know I'm not going to be able to snipe my bid I always bid a non manipulation maximum. I bid lower than the going rate so they run out of my bids if they try to do this.

Not to pick a fight, but people like you and your friend are the reason I view auctions with suspicion. What you described is not just bid manipulation, it's fraud.

I stick by my original position. Auctions are a game that has little to do with the real value of the item. Unfortunately, as a buyer, it seems like max bidding in the last 5 seconds is the only honest way to do it.

Shagittarius wrote:

I'm sorry but you're incorrect about sniping not being protection from the seller. It totally is, when you snipe, you put in the maximum bid you were going to and if your only competition is the shill seller then his only choice is to sell or cancel the auction. I know this is true I use to do it for friends all the time. Selling something you've seen going for X price but only have 2 hours left? Get your friend to bid up to the "going rate" then hope the other guy wants it bad enough to commit to just 1.00 more. When you put in a maximum bid that has no competition the seller will bid up to where the "going rate' is expecting that your maximum bid resides somewhere around there and you are already locked in to pay it. That's the play. If you're mistaken and their bid ends theres still a good chance that the interested party may return seeing that the "going rate" is close and try to increase again by just 1.00 more, whats 1.00 after all instead of losing this auction.

You avoid all this manipulation, manipulation of your max bid and manipulation of your desire for the object if you simply put in your max bid 5 seconds before time expires. When I know I'm not going to be able to snipe my bid I always bid a non manipulation maximum. I bid lower than the going rate so they run out of my bids if they try to do this.

What is your eBay name and your friend's eBay account name so I can report you for shill bidding? 😠 😠 😠 😠 😠 😠 😠

Almost won a Gravis UltraSound card with the diskettes, but, some jackass outbidded me in 5 seconds before the auction was over. GUS cards are being sold higher than I've seen within the past 9 years on eBay.

It was probably nearly a decade ago when I was doing that for my friend. He doesn't sell computer components, they were collectible toys. I've never participated in doing this for my own for sale items because I start the bidding at the lowest price I'm willing to sell for, I think people who start the bidding low to try and get bid wars going and then cancel auctions are just as despicable.

I'm telling you all this so you can be aware and not get manipulated, don't hate the messenger who hasn't been involved in that in a long long time. I truly believe if everyone just put their highest bid in within the last 5 seconds you would see the average sale price decrease for many items since the manipulation on the part of sellers would disappear.

bjwil1991 wrote:

Almost won a Gravis UltraSound card with the diskettes, but, some jackass outbidded me in 5 seconds before the auction was over. GUS cards are being sold higher than I've seen within the past 9 years on eBay.

yeah I've just come to the conclusion I will never own one nor a CT1350b

oeuvre wrote:

bjwil1991 wrote:

Almost won a Gravis UltraSound card with the diskettes, but, some jackass outbidded me in 5 seconds before the auction was over. GUS cards are being sold higher than I've seen within the past 9 years on eBay.

yeah I've just come to the conclusion I will never own one nor a CT1350b

A CT1350b.. I've got more of them than I know what to do with. Most came in scrap lots with a bunch of other stuff.

The SB 2.0? They're not that hard to find, and go for ~$90 on Ebay. Is that just more than you're willing to pay for it?

The GUS I can understand. Those things are ridiculous. I decided at one point that I would like to have an ACE. Yeah, well, apparently so would the rest of the Internet. sheesh.

Way more. I regret not picking one up for $40 on ebay a couple years back.

SirNickity wrote:

The SB 2.0? They're not that hard to find, and go for ~$90 on Ebay. Is that just more than you're willing to pay for it?

The GUS I can understand. Those things are ridiculous. I decided at one point that I would like to have an ACE. Yeah, well, apparently so would the rest of the Internet. sheesh.

See if Shock is doing another production run of the ARGUS?