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Retro confessions. What are yours?

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Reply 101 of 260, by Zup

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I believe that the "proper era" playing device for Doom is keyboard only. Although I've played many FPS with keyboard+mouse, I feel like cheating when doing so in Doom. Also, I believe that being proud of playing FPS with a gamepad is like being proud of driving a scooter.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 102 of 260, by lafoxxx

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Zup wrote on 2020-11-18, 14:52:

I believe that the "proper era" playing device for Doom is keyboard only. Although I've played many FPS with keyboard+mouse, I feel like cheating when doing so in Doom. Also, I believe that being proud of playing FPS with a gamepad is like being proud of driving a scooter.

Mice were around at that time -- it is even supported natively. Probably it wasn't really popular, or people didn't know how to use it properly, even during Quake days mouselook was optional. Then one day that WASD+mouse guy appeared, kicked everyone's ass in multiplayer event and won a Ferrari.

Still annoys me when people play DOOM with freelook (up/down) and jump (in new source ports), and yet somehow manage to die frequently.

As for the gamepad -- it really depends on which layout you're using.

I used the following layout to successfully complete Quake 1 on PSP:
Triggers: strafe
Left d-pad: move-turn
Right buttons: look up-down, jump, shoot.

Reply 103 of 260, by dr_st

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Even the DOOM developers used the mouse - it is evident from some of the in-game demos (which I believe were recorded by John Romero).

Still I somehow got used to playing Doom and Build engine games with keyboard only. Quake and later - it's mouse and WASD.

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Reply 104 of 260, by xcomcmdr

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Zup wrote on 2020-11-18, 14:52:

I believe that the "proper era" playing device for Doom is keyboard only. Although I've played many FPS with keyboard+mouse, I feel like cheating when doing so in Doom. Also, I believe that being proud of playing FPS with a gamepad is like being proud of driving a scooter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6p1SU5QS54
Actually it isn't. The game's manual recommands to use keyboard+mouse (because it's not very playable with keyboard only), and the demos DOOM displays were recorded by Romero himself playing with keyboard+mouse.

Reply 105 of 260, by badmojo

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dr_st wrote on 2020-11-18, 15:32:

Even the DOOM developers used the mouse - it is evident from some of the in-game demos (which I believe were recorded by John Romero).

I remember reading that our friend John used mouse with Wolf3D too - mouse mandatory, said he. I'm a keyboard guy but I suspect as a lad I played with left hand on the right hand side for ctl, alt, etc. These days my left hand stays left - thanks to modern WASD habits.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 106 of 260, by kolderman

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I'm pretty sure I read the id guys used keyboard until they saw some pro players at a meet using mouse and they were converted. I recall it was quite common to use keyboard until duke3d/quake came out. Also remember mice in those days SUCKED.

Reply 107 of 260, by xcomcmdr

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kolderman wrote on 2020-11-19, 04:42:

I'm pretty sure I read the id guys used keyboard until they saw some pro players at a meet using mouse and they were converted. [...]

That's not possible since the DOOM demos and manual clearly display/recommand a keyboard+mouse playstyle.

Reply 109 of 260, by Zup

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xcomcmdr wrote on 2020-11-18, 15:33:

Actually it isn't. The game's manual recommands to use keyboard+mouse (because it's not very playable with keyboard only), and the demos DOOM displays were recorded by Romero himself playing with keyboard+mouse.

Maybe, but Wolf3D and Doom default settings are uncomfortable (unless you're left-handed and have your mouse on the left side). And the default setting of using the Y axis to move forward/backward doesn't help.

As kolderman said, mouse+keyboard weren't a thing until controls were rethought and WASD was common.

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 110 of 260, by dr_st

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Zup wrote on 2020-11-19, 10:37:

As kolderman said, mouse+keyboard weren't a thing until controls were rethought and WASD was common.

I don't know exactly which controls Romero had used, but the fact that he played with the mouse already during early development of the original games is undisputed. That it was not yet ubiquitous, and many of the early players used keyboard only is true. And yes, the default controls are definitely sub-optimal for keyboard+mouse.
Here's a good summary:
https://soulsphere.org/apocrypha/keyboard/

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Reply 111 of 260, by skitters

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This isn't a "retro confession" so much as something that just doesn't make a lot of sense.
My favorite games are from around the time I started playing games, in the late 1990's and early 2000's.

So when I feel like building a retro computer, what do I go for?
A 486.

Not a Socket 7, Pentium II, or Pentium III computer that would be more appropriate for most of the games I want to play.
No, for some reason I want to make another 486.

Reply 112 of 260, by mothergoose729

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dr_st wrote on 2020-11-19, 12:30:
I don't know exactly which controls Romero had used, but the fact that he played with the mouse already during early development […]
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Zup wrote on 2020-11-19, 10:37:

As kolderman said, mouse+keyboard weren't a thing until controls were rethought and WASD was common.

I don't know exactly which controls Romero had used, but the fact that he played with the mouse already during early development of the original games is undisputed. That it was not yet ubiquitous, and many of the early players used keyboard only is true. And yes, the default controls are definitely sub-optimal for keyboard+mouse.
Here's a good summary:
https://soulsphere.org/apocrypha/keyboard/

Yeah I saw a video on youtube that did a deep dive on the topic. Id software definitely had mouse in keyboard in mind for Doom controls. For whatever reason, the keyboard only crowd seems to have written their narrative for that bit of history, heh 😁.

Reply 113 of 260, by SpectriaForce

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- I have (pretty much) all the old pc hardware that I want. I don't collect anymore.

- I currently much rather assemble and configure an old x86 pc, than actually use it for gaming.

- 3DFX card and Glide? Just give me a DirectX NVIDIA card (I do have a fully working Voodoo2 pc though, which I almost never use..).

- I'm not interested in midi modules, new wavetable boards or any sort of complicated or expensive audio gear. Cheap AWE64 value or AudioPCI card are all I need.

- I still use CD-RW for transferring data between modern pc and old pc.

- I find old pc hardware with limitations and low end stuff funny. I do like Celerons and PCI only motherboards, to see how far I can push that stuff.

- I like 1990's COMPAQ pc's. Quality and documented stuff made to last.

- Most folks on this forum have a 486 pc. That just takes the magic for me away. It used to be fun to experiment with one of these and bring back memories 10 years ago, but now I see a ton of topics and Youtube videos about them and it's becoming boring for me. Everybody does the same thing. The 486 DOS games are just not impressive to me anymore either.

- Folks on this forum who want to repair sticky old Thinkpad laptops and damaged undocumented motherboards, inhaling solder fumes, removing battery acid, asking a million questions about obscure broken hardware: I just don't understand them, sorry. Been there, done that. I much rather spend moar for good hardware and spend the remaining time on other activities.

- I find vogons quite a good place for information about old pc hardware, some folks are really helpful (THANKS SO MUCH), but I've read recently a lot of groupthink over here, also rants (I guess this post could be considered a rant 🤣), bashing of sellers, bashing of youtubers and endless complaints about high prices. It's getting old. Pretty much everyone over here is also anonymous, which also makes this place less attractive for me.

That's just my brutally honest 2 centzzz!

Last edited by SpectriaForce on 2020-11-19, 20:42. Edited 1 time in total.

I sell 'ridiculously expensive' retro hardware to people like you. I feel sorry for that.

Reply 114 of 260, by SpectriaForce

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-11-10, 10:55:

Some people are probably going to hate me, but I think Amiga's failure was well deserved.

Commodore wanted to make the system cheaper to use for a home user and made some technical decisions that really hurt it in the long run (like sticking to NTSC and PAL video modes). The OS was impressive for its time but really suffered without memory protection. Also the vast majority of Amiga games are crap. Some of them look very good for their time but they're mostly platformers or top-down shooters which means they're super boring.

Couldn't agree with you more.

I sell 'ridiculously expensive' retro hardware to people like you. I feel sorry for that.

Reply 115 of 260, by SpectriaForce

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SquallStrife wrote on 2020-11-18, 00:37:

I confess that when I moved from a house to a small apartment, I took no less than SIX functioning PowerMac G5's to the garbage dump's e-waste section.

I tried selling them, I tried giving them away, and gave up out of both frustration and time constraints.

I'm sorry, I know somebody out there could have loved and cared for them, but our paths just did not cross when they needed to.

Over the years I've thrown away among others a working Osborne I (the first version with the old style keyboard), a working but discolorated Acorn Archimedes in box, dozens of C64's (of which I thought that they were defective, but the video cable I used wasn't the right one), dozens of ZX Spectrums and Acorn BBC, several IBM PS/2 systems with defective disk drive, several really old 1980's terminals, many technically good but discolorated CRT monitors, many printers, many many kilograms of usable floppy disks with copied software etc.

Last edited by SpectriaForce on 2020-11-19, 20:14. Edited 1 time in total.

I sell 'ridiculously expensive' retro hardware to people like you. I feel sorry for that.

Reply 117 of 260, by drosse1meyer

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Probably just a drop in the bucket compared to others here. Too many apartment moves and a mom who loves cleaning out junk. Stuff I wish i still had:

Monster3d and Monster3d 2. Yes I had both, bought the 2 used from some kid in HS. Both gone.
Voodoo3 from my p3 build
Apple IIc, monitor and apple dot matrix printer (maybe an image writer?) (first computer experience when i was really young)
IBM P/S1 486 DX2 (with the cool door that would disappear)
Some old Thinkpad with the pentium75 bug... I don't remember the exact model, but it had a keyboard which swung upwards. It was a real challenge getting slackware installed on that back in 2000...
SO MANY BIG BOXED GAMES. I saved all the boxes. Then threw them out when I went to college.
God knows what else. Various other pci/isa cards, cables, adapters, IDE disks, IBM mech keyboards, generic beige box PCs that people just gave to me...

Reply 118 of 260, by TheMobRules

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SpectriaForce wrote on 2020-11-19, 19:31:

- Folks on this forum who want to repair sticky old Thinkpad laptops and damaged undocumented motherboards, inhaling solder fumes, removing battery acid, asking a million questions about obscure broken hardware: I just don't understand them, sorry. Been there, done that. I much rather spend moar for good hardware and spend the remaining time on other activities.

- I find vogons quite a good place for information about old pc hardware, some folks are really helpful (THANKS SO MUCH), but I've read recently a lot of groupthink over here, also rants (I guess this post could be considered a rant 🤣), bashing of sellers, bashing of youtubers and endless complaints about high prices. It's getting old. Pretty much everyone over here is also anonymous, which also makes this place less attractive for me.

This seems contradictory. You know that in many cases those people who take their time repairing and restoring old/undocumented hardware are the ones who end up understanding it well enough to provide the information that you consider helpful? And that maybe they just like tinkering or cannot afford to "spend moar"? You also don't like people bashing sellers yet you're not here for either the games or hardware tinkering, so is it just about plugging the stuff you sell so people can "spend moar" on it? Maybe I'm missing something in your rant, but it sounds fishy.

Reply 119 of 260, by hyperrmachine

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1. Maniac Mansion is a much better game than its sequel, Day of the Tentacle. It's more fun to play than Day of the Tentacle but it's really hard.
2. Day of the Tentacle has a rather weak story.
3. Sam & Max: Hit the Road is a game that will disappoint die-hard comedy and detective fiction fans. I love comedy but I found the jokes to be bad. There was one funny part though: the block of ice.