VOGONS


Reply 200 of 208, by astigmatism

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Yes thank you. I have reviewed this blog before but nothing helpful stood out. Considering the amount of detail in it, can you be specific about which method you're referring to?

If "MTRRLFBE.EXE LFB WC" as a solution - I tried this but it had no effect.
If system.ini changes to limit Windows 98's "visibility" of usable RAM - I intentionally used 1GB on the Evga board to avoid doing this.

Keep in mind the Asus x58 board was behaving as expected and the Evga was not despite identical equipment and OS configurations. The BIOS settings described in that blog were specific to the board they used. There were many settings my Evga BIOS did not have so this blog isn't necessary a panacea for all X58 builds.

Reply 201 of 208, by RayeR

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Does your BIOS have some option like memory remapping? If yes, try to change it when use 4GB or more. It may affect MTRR settings and performance.
also you can try my latest mtrrlfbe with debug option to see if there is some difference in MTRR setting with 3GB and 4GB (under DOS).

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GTX670(GF7900GT), SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 202 of 208, by astigmatism

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Does your BIOS have some option like memory remapping?

Ah, very interesting. Thank you. My Evga board is missing this option. Perhaps future Vogons readers can fully appreciate this advise 😀

I've moved on to another area of interest however:

I find out other pro thing, you can disable whole PCI-E root on OS level to disable some PCI-E slot

So ruthan, what is your preferred setup for multiple GPUs on these platforms? I'll be using an ATI X800XL (Windows 98) and a GeForce 750Ti (Windows XP+). I'd prefer a solution in Windows to avoid multiple BIOS profiles.

Which card do you use the first (or primary) PCIe slot? I presume the older card? This seems to make sense for booting to DOS/Windows 98.
What is the process to disable a PCIe in newer Windows's to use the other newer card however? I see in Windows 10 Device Manager several "PCI-to-PCI bridge" devices. Is it just disabling one-by-one until the PCIe slot with the older card is disabled? I suspect that the machine boots without video on the secondary card until you reach the Windows 10 login screen?

Reply 203 of 208, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Well, im using Gigabyte board, because they could force primary PCI-E slot and profiles. Its in history, but some HP boards have this options too and some Supremicros too, without it, it could be problem.

Otherwise make sense use in primary GPU slot card which you are using most. To find which PCI-E root is for which card, open Device Manager Xp/Win7/Win10 and switch to Tree view for Device connections.. View-> Devices by Connection, here you can through device id indentify (or though card name if drivers are already instead ) which root is used by which card and disable it. Only problem is Windows 10 version major upgrade, it will reenable disable roots and you have disable them again.

Without primary GPU slot selection, you could have problem to get boot picture from not primary graphics cards, until OS is loaded.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 204 of 208, by RayeR

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hi, I just got a Gigabyte GA-H97-HD3 rev. 1.1 mobo for 4./5. gen core with H97 PCH chipset & the same well known PCIE2PCI bridge IT8892E and performed a test with YMF744 PCI.
I disabled all features that may interfere with DOS like USB legacy support and left only legacy boot, no UEFI etc.
Yamaha driver and DSDMA.EXE loaded successfully, configured to IRQ5, DMA1 but Doom hangs at startup at InitSound, also few other previously tested games just hangs at startup. When I disabled SFX in Doom setup and left only music via SB or Adlib then it started and music played smoothly. I tried a bit messing around memory manager and swapped the soundcard between 2 PCI slots but result was always the same. So there's definitely some compatability issue that prevents DSDMA to do it's job on newer chipsets. We can assume that PCIE2PCI bridge IT8892E works fine and UEFI itself also is not the issue. So it seems that X79 chipset still remains to be the last fully working option (Ruthan's Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4).
I have also one H81 ITX board but it has not PCI so we are still not sure about 8x chipset series.

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GTX670(GF7900GT), SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 205 of 208, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

In this thread is maybe someone how would be able say something more about it:
PCI sound cards and Chipsets from various manufacturers...
or here:
PCie-to PCI, PCI to ISA, # of slots multipliers - bridges, risers, backplanes, research, especially for DOS, WIP.
PCI or PCI Express Sound Card for DOS Sound Blaster Sound Effects working on Intel Sandy Bridge Z68 or newer chipsets

If my memory serves, which i looked at all chipset diagrams, all boards which are working have som ICH10 chip.. and so i guess that its upgraded version is no more compatible.

Other adlib or SB music is not bad.. it could help of board without parallel port still to get some music working. (i know this one has parallel port too), without paying for OPT2LPT and need to patch the games and only small group of games is running.

Otherwise just idea.. is not possible to somehow record all communication during game starting on ASM level and compare too recording from still working HW and not working HW, to find out the difference? I never got into this low level dos debugging..

Last edited by ruthan on 2022-04-28, 19:26. Edited 1 time in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 206 of 208, by RayeR

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Just a quick note, 6x chipsets (including my P67) are single-chip solution (PCH) - no more ICH10 used so it is not the mandatory condition for working DSDMA. But of course newer PCH chipsets might removed some internal legacy circuitry (as intel did e.g. for SATA-IDE emulation) that is crucial for DSDMA function...

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GTX670(GF7900GT), SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo

Reply 207 of 208, by ruthan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

As i wrote my memory.. but when i was checking it, i found difference between X79 and Z97.

There is X79 Block diagram.. PCI Bus connected directly into chipset, like in case of old working board, that was that important thing..
https://download1.gigabyte.com/Files/Manual/m … a-x79-up4_e.pdf // page 8

Z97 - PCI bus is connected through PCIE- to PCI bridge:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2014 … ock-diagram.jpg

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 208 of 208, by RayeR

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Yes but my P67 board use exactly the same ITE PCI bridge like this H97 so it cannot be a culprit. Looking at bare diagram dosn't show much as (d)evil is hidden in details that are not much published, one would need read full datasheet carefully...

Gigabyte GA-P67-DS3-B3, Core i7-2600K @4,5GHz, 4GB DDR3, 128GB SSD, GTX670(GF7900GT), SB Audigy + YMF724F + DreamBlaster combo