VOGONS


First post, by Wilius

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Edit: This post used to be on the "General Old Hardware" page. However, I moved this post to the "Software" page because I believe this is a software-related issue.
I apologize for submitting this post twice.

Hi everybody.

I'm at a total loss.

I own a Panasonic CF-41 notebook with Windows 95 installed (version A) and it used to work fine until now.
When I tried to install the drivers for a PCMCIA card, the built-in trackball suddenly stopped working.
Something must've bricked the mouse driver.
Trying to remove the PCMCIA card drivers didn't work, and reinstalling the mouse drivers also had no effect. (I tried to install the Standard PS/2 mouse drivers)
At this point, I attempted to reinstall Windows 95, but I was unable to do so.
None of my boot disks were able to start the setup. But I can confirm the optical drive is working perfectly fine.
Does anyone have the original drivers for this notebook? This may be my only hope. I don't know what else I could try.
If anyone has suggestions on how to deal with this situation, I'd be very glad.
I appreciate any kind of help.

Thanks in advance.

Keep in mind, I can't really do anything else, then to start the notebook from the hard drive because a password prevents me from entering the BIOS.

Last edited by Wilius on 2022-07-06, 12:49. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 21, by Wilius

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Well, I have tried upgrading Windows 95 to 98 SE, and the trackball is still not working.
In the user manual, I've read that you need to select "Built-in Track Ball/Mouse Port in the setup program".
Perhaps this will solve my problem. 
However, I've also read that you need a specific file on a floppy disk to start the setup program.
Originally, this notebook came with some utility disks, but I don't have either of them.
I believe the file I need is called "setup41.exe". Can anyone share this file with me?
I was unable to find this file anywhere.

Many thanks in advance.

Reply 2 of 21, by Wilius

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It somehow got worse. I'm about to loose my mind.

Now the optical drive stopped working too.
There's no way that I'm going to find a replacement part, or am I wrong?
Messing around with it was a terrible mistake.
Karma is indeed a B-word.
Seems like this is my punishment, I guess.

Any ideas what I can do now?

Reply 3 of 21, by vetz

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I'd try to see if you can get any of the backdoor passwords for Panasonic to work so you can get access to the BIOS and boot from floppy.

You haven't specified which version of the CF-41 you got, but there are some drivers available here:
http://www.retrocomputing.org/cgi-bin/sitewis … 673&id=retroorg

Also this guy says he has the original install CD:
https://muzeuldecalculatoare.ro/2020/01/14/pa … book-cf-41-mk1/

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Reply 4 of 21, by Wilius

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Thank you so much for your help. You're saving me a lot of trouble.
That was exactly what I was looking for.
But you're right. I should probably specify my version of the CF-41.
I believe it's an MK2 machine and the serial number reads CF41-PT64AAG 5BKSG01027.

Reply 5 of 21, by Wilius

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Please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your help and respect retrocomputing.org, for their amazing contributions, but they're charging a fee of £2.
I understand why they're asking for a donation, but regardless of that, I really can't pay any more money for this laptop.
I deeply apologize for coming across as a cheapskate.
With that being said, the first website, unfortunately, is a no-go.

On the second site, I tried to leave a comment, but it has vanished for unknown reasons.
I haven't been notified yet, so maybe my comment has been removed.
Did I do something wrong? Should I try contacting the person directly?

It's not my intention to sound rude, but are there any different websites which host the required files?

Reply 6 of 21, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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Wilius wrote on 2022-06-21, 13:18:
Please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your help and respect retrocomputing.org, for their amazing contributions, but th […]
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Please don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your help and respect retrocomputing.org, for their amazing contributions, but they're charging a fee of £2.
I understand why they're asking for a donation, but regardless of that, I really can't pay any more money for this laptop.
I deeply apologize for coming across as a cheapskate.
With that being said, the first website, unfortunately, is a no-go.

On the second site, I tried to leave a comment, but it has vanished for unknown reasons.
I haven't been notified yet, so maybe my comment has been removed.
Did I do something wrong? Should I try contacting the person directly?

It's not my intention to sound rude, but are there any different websites which host the required files?

Wilius, can't guarantee these will be right for your particular model (can see PT64AAM mentioned on the page but not PT64AAG), but a quick sweep thru some Panasonic archives on Wayback gives me this...

CF-41 Mk 1 First Aid CD - https://web.archive.org/web/20021217094500/ht … k1_1staidcd.exe

CF-41 Mk2 First Aid CD - https://web.archive.org/web/20030215202936/ht … k2_1staidcd.exe

CF-41 Mk1 Backup Diskettes (including SETUP41) - https://web.archive.org/web/20021217093122/ht … rs/cf41back.exe

CF-41 Utilities (BIOS, Diagnostics etc) - https://web.archive.org/web/20021217094150/ht … ers/cf41set.exe

There are a load of other files listed for the CF-41 such as drivers, BIOS updates, help files etc but I'll leave you to look at these in more detail yourself - just search for CF41 on this page...

https://web.archive.org/web/20021217021025/ht … wareResults.asp

Hope some of this is a help.

Reply 7 of 21, by Wilius

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Once again, I can't point out enough how much your help means to me.
The community of Vogons never fails to impress me.
Hopefully, I can get this machine finally working now.
I will update you once I'm done, or whatever is going to happen.
Thank you a lot, vetz and PC Hoarder Patrol, you earned my respect.

Reply 8 of 21, by Wilius

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Hi!

It's been a few days, and I finally made some progress.
I've managed to install an OEM version of Windows 95 OSR 2 (version b).
The installation went smoothly. Even the VGA and Sound drivers were installed. 
However, once Windows was fully installed, the optical drive stopped working, and it did also not show up in "My Computer".
It seems that the drivers weren't installed.
So, how do I install the drivers for the optical drive?
The optical drive is made by Matsushita.

I took a closer peek at "https://web.archive.org/web/20021217021025/ht … wareResults.asp" and downloaded the following files:
cf41back.exe
cf41set.exe
cf41_cd.exe 
cf41_cd-2.exe
cf41_mk2_1staidcd.exe
These files were supposed to contain the CD-ROM drivers, but I wasn't able to get it working.
However, I've managed to create a custom boot disk with working CD-ROM drivers, though that's it
The driver is called "MSCD000" in Config.sys.

Setup41.exe also doesn't work.
It only prompts "This Computer is not supported" when trying to execute it.

How should I proceed now? I need some advice.

Reply 10 of 21, by Wilius

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I have great news.

After I replaced the files Config.sys and Autoexec.bat, the optical drive is finally working again.
(I found the files in the FirstAid CD)
Sadly, the built-in trackball still doesn't work.
I tried to install the Standard PS/2 mouse drivers, but it wouldn't let me.
The device manager just shows a yellow sign with an exclamation mark.
It says the device was not found and gives me code 24.
Obviously, the device is in a problem state or there is a hardware conflict.
The same problem also occurs on different versions of Windows.
I can't tell if there is a hardware defect.
At least, everything looks alright on the inside.

Am I missing something here?
I still need more advice.
As mentioned dozens of times, I appreciate any kind of help.

Thanks in advance.

Reply 11 of 21, by Wilius

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I finally found the reason why the trackball had failed.
Turns out there is a small capacitor within the trackball that has leaked.
This caused some corrosion.
I'm going to clean the board thoroughly and replace that capacitor, then I'll see if this solves my problem.

Reply 13 of 21, by vetz

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Great that you figured that is actually was a hardware error. I've never heard about a custom mouse driver for the pointer on laptops. Normally any software would enable configuration of the behavior of the buttons/pointer beyond what is possible in Windows.

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Reply 14 of 21, by Wilius

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You're right vetz, my previous thoughts were pretty stupid.
I should've known better. At least I've gained some knowledge along the way.

Finally, I can finally say that my Panasonic CF-41 is now in fully working condition.
This is just awesome. For the last time, I'd like to thank everyone who helped me solve my problems.
I really appreciate that. Without you, I would still be sitting in front of a broken laptop.

You guys rock!

I guess this thread is solved now.

Reply 16 of 21, by Wilius

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ldare1000 wrote on 2023-08-21, 20:28:

I'd love to get my CF-41 working but cannot switch on without a battery.

I'm sorry to hear that you have trouble with your CF-41.

Which battery are you talking about? The CF-41 has two batteries.
One is located next to the HDD, the other one is under a plastic cover that houses the speakers.
(This one is for keeping the BIOS settings)

Oddly enough, my CF-41 powers on with, or without a battery.
Maybe there's another problem?

Do you get a picture at all, or does the screen remain black?
Do you have the power brick?

Reply 17 of 21, by ldare1000

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Wilius wrote on 2023-08-26, 16:59:
I'm sorry to hear that you have trouble with your CF-41. […]
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ldare1000 wrote on 2023-08-21, 20:28:

I'd love to get my CF-41 working but cannot switch on without a battery.

I'm sorry to hear that you have trouble with your CF-41.

Which battery are you talking about? The CF-41 has two batteries.
One is located next to the HDD, the other one is under a plastic cover that houses the speakers.
(This one is for keeping the BIOS settings)

Oddly enough, my CF-41 powers on with, or without a battery.
Maybe there's another problem?

Do you get a picture at all, or does the screen remain black?
Do you have the power brick?

Its been a long road! I'd read somewhere that the laptop wouldn't boot without a battery , however I now understand it's the CMOS battery that it needs some power left in it.

So far I have
1) Replaced CMOS Battery
2) Replaced Caps
3) Obtained and dismantled a sub battery (which I don't really need now)
4) Replaced the fuses
5) Replaced the hard drive as I was getting a error ending 301 which suggests Hard Disk failure

The 4th above, making the biggest jump forward in progress.

I've made a bootable First Aid Floppy and it boots when tested on another laptop. I've also got the Setup41 disk and First Aid CD.

However I'm not sure if my floppy drive on the CF-41 is working, doesn't sound good and nothing really happens.

My main question is: Is there anyway of accessing a traditional BIOS or is it only access via software on a floppy disk? If there is a traditional BIOS, does anyone know the exact key to press, also nothing mentioned in the manual. I've tried the obvious keys before posting.

If my floppy drive isn't working I guess I'm not going to get this working again?? Also it could be the Floppy unit is fine but it's the connector as the main battery did leak.

It does know if a floppy is inserted because if there's no floppy disk I get the image showing me to insert a floppy disk. Its just then is males an unhealthy sound for a second and then the codes as displayed below.

Cheers

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Reply 18 of 21, by Wilius

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ldare1000 wrote on 2023-11-03, 23:19:

However I'm not sure if my floppy drive on the CF-41 is working, doesn't sound good and nothing really happens.

My main question is: Is there anyway of accessing a traditional BIOS or is it only access via software on a floppy disk? If there is a traditional BIOS, does anyone know the exact key to press, also nothing mentioned in the manual. I've tried the obvious keys before posting.

If my floppy drive isn't working I guess I'm not going to get this working again?? Also it could be the Floppy unit is fine but it's the connector as the main battery did leak.

As far as I'm concerned, the BIOS can only be accessed through software found on a floppy disk.

It's typical for the CF-41 to have a faulty floppy drive.
These drives rely on a rubber belt, which will degrade with time.
The sound you're hearing comes from the motor, which the belt was used to be attached to.
I'm afraid, you have no other choice but to replace the floppy drive.
It's possible to try to replace the belt, but I wouldn't recommend it because it's not simple.
Without a functioning floppy drive, the CF-41 is basically just a very fancy paperweight.

You need to get a Matsushita EME279MS drive.
You can also try to look for any Matsushita drive, that uses the same connector.

Good luck on finding one.

Reply 19 of 21, by Thermalwrong

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Could someone post some pictures of the drive and I could provide some guidance on how to swap out the belt? It's actually quite simple on the EME279 drives once you've got a belt of the right dimensions:
Re: What retro activity did you get up to today?
The belt I've linked in there is what I install in any EME279 drive I find since they're all bad now, just a simple TPU print and I made a bunch of them last time I had the printer set up for printing belts.

I wish I could find the FDD module somewhere for a good price, I'm stuck with the space filler in the bay instead.

The hard drive died on mine too but it's working fine with a 1GB CF card that I formatted on another laptop that does have a working floppy drive. The 163 error you've got should go away once you're in the OS and can set the time, assuming that the CMOS batter is still working - from what I recall it's a rechargeable vanadium lithium cell that doesn't need replacing unless it completely fails to keep charge after the laptop has been powered via AC adapter for a bit.