VOGONS


First post, by Numbuh 128Bit

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Hi! Just registered here, so this is my first post. Anyway, I'm thinking about buying a PCI Sound Card with FM synthesis capabilities for my Windows 98SE. I use it mostly as a retro gaming computer. What I'd like to know is:
1: What can the FM synthesis be used for besides games, and will PCI sound cards will be detected in DOS?
2: When playing a MIDI file in a media player through any such sound card, will the MIDI be played using FM synth instead of the standard instrument set that comes with the OS?
3: Are there any programs that can generate FM synthesis?
Any help would be appreciated. I plan to buy either a "Yamaha XG YMF724F-V" or an "Avance Logic ALS 4000".
Here are my Specs:

Motherboard: ECS K7SEM 3.0A
Graphics: Onboard SiS 630/703 VGA
Audio: SiS 7018 Audio Driver with MPU-401 Compatible MIDI Driver
Memory : 386MB SDRAM
CPU: "Authentic AMD" AMD Duron (TM) Processor apparently running at 893MHz.

Thanks in advance.

Reply 1 of 12, by dominusprog

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1. Playing MIDI music? And yes, but you have to connect the sound card to the motherboard using the SB_LINK for better compatibility in DOS.
2. Yes.
3. Yes, Windows has a software synthesizer. You can easily try these different outputs using Winamp.

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Reply 2 of 12, by Numbuh 128Bit

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OK. Thanks. As soon as I can. I'll give it a try. Also, it turns out my board is 3.0C, but that doesn't really mean much =P.

Reply 3 of 12, by Ensign Nemo

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You'll also have other music options if you get a card that supports midi through the gameport. That offers even more music options as you could connect your PC to a general midi device or an MT-32 (with SoftMPU). You'd have to make sure that your card supports midi in DOS though first. If it does, you could get a USB to midi cable and hook it up to a Raspberry Pi or another computer that is running a suitable emulator. You can also use a serial to USB cable for a similar setup. Sorry if this is off topic, but I thought you might be interested in that if you weren't aware of it (seems like you are interested in music options).

Reply 4 of 12, by Numbuh 128Bit

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To be honest, I only recently found out that FM music in old computer games is a thing. As a SEGA Genesis player, I was intrigued. I'm one of the only people who prefers Genesis music over SNES, so that's why Inquired about FM synth (or OPL as the web would call it). As for MIDI, I just found out about MT-32 as well. Maybe I'll look more into that in the future, but for now, I'll focus on FM. Thanks again. All the info is appreciated.

Reply 5 of 12, by Jo22

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Some "Sega PC" titles for Windows 95 do feature both OPL3 (YMF262) and MIDI music.
They can directly talk to the FM chip, not unlike their Genesis counterpart.

The one I tried was Sonic & Knuckles Collection.
Maybe Comix Zone has a similar feature, not absolutely sure.
Anyway, there should be recordings on YouTube.

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Reply 6 of 12, by DerBaum

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For really authentic FM sound ISA cards are the standard... When PCI came to the mainstream PCs, FM was already nearly gone and just emulated. Some PCI cards use real OPL cores in PCI Soundchips, but its not common.
You will most likely get something thats sounds close to FM. Thats fine if you dont have a direct reference.
When you get a ISA card with a OPL chip it doesnt matter if its a copy chip or the original YMF262 (as an OPL3 example) ... Because they sound the same (and i think most copys where made of the original design and just labeled/packaged differently).
The biggest difference on an ISA FM card is the board design in general, wich will have more or less noise depending on the model.

If you want even more Sega like sounds try a OPL2 isa card... Most of them are noisy but they sound super close to Sega. But dont be suprised by the money people want for OPL2 cards these days... Even if they are noisy as hell...

Im just a oldshool ISA guy. I never got the results i wanted from PCI solutions. For my retro sound needs ISA just works better and at least in my cases seems more compatible to old software an the tricks they sometimes used to make specific sounds from the FM Synthesizer. Sorry when i missed the topic by a little bit...

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Reply 7 of 12, by jakethompson1

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You might look into a card using the ESS Solo1.

Also depending on how much are you are into this stuff, you might weigh how likely it is you are going to end up building a Pentium or 486 system before long (or ISA-ful Pentium II/III like a typical Slot 1), on which you might put an ISA sound card.

Reply 8 of 12, by Joseph_Joestar

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Numbuh 128Bit wrote on 2023-08-28, 16:42:

2: When playing a MIDI file in a media player through any such sound card, will the MIDI be played using FM synth instead of the standard instrument set that comes with the OS?

You should be able to select which device will be used for MIDI playback from the Windows Control Panel.

I plan to buy either a "Yamaha XG YMF724F-V" or an "Avance Logic ALS 4000".

The YMF724 has a genuine OPL3 core and will sound authentic. Do note that PCI sound cards in general aren't as compatible with DOS games as their ISA counterparts. While the YMF724 is pretty decent, you may run into some older games which refuse to work with it. Connecting the card using a SB-Link header can help with this, but motherboards which have one of those are somewhat rare.

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Reply 9 of 12, by Numbuh 128Bit

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(checks out ESS SOLO1). I'll need to wait 'till I have the cash, but it should be worth it.

Reply 10 of 12, by Ydee

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-29, 01:46:

Connecting the card using a SB-Link header can help with this, but motherboards which have one of those are somewhat rare.

plus a lot of motherboards with PC/PCI header have their own ISA slots, so it's easier to use a seamless ISA card directly.

Reply 11 of 12, by Numbuh 128Bit

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OK, so I ordered the sound card earlier this month, but due to an error on USPS's side, it'll be delayed until around 6 days. I'll post an update after I've tested the card for myself.

Reply 12 of 12, by Numbuh 128Bit

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The card finally arrived earlier last week. I've been testing, and the MIDIs do indeed use the synth. As for DOS games, sometimes I could get sound, but when I couldn't, I followed the instructions in this topic:
ESS Allegro under DOS - Compaq Evo N600C (vorob's final post). It works! The 3D audio option is a nice touch, too! It does, however, have a "psssst" hissing noise. Nothing too bad, though. I tried it in multiple motherboards, and still get hissing. I'm still very satisfied with the card. Thanks for the recomendation, jake!