Roland User wrote:

Question As make so to SoundCanvas VA making auto reset mode after stop play MIDI file , before next play MIDI file ? This probl […]
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Question
As make so to SoundCanvas VA making auto reset mode after stop play MIDI file , before next play MIDI file ?
This problem Is it possible decide to automaticable in host application or VST Plugin ?
As create resetable ?

When no sysex filter (disabled):

SCVAgmid.rar:
qq*.mid reset VA VSTi correctly to GS. Does NOT set SC-55 MAP.
Battlewaitmusic.mid reset VA VSTi incorrectly to GM2 (GM2 did not exist when that was composed).
? others ?.mid do not reset - incorrect settings from previous song persist. Some songs expect default SC-55 (piano) but don't set piano in the mid.

To automate reset (for playing SCVAgmid.rar mid's) you would want either

a) midi player with reset support + virtual cable or a
b) jukebox that hosts the VA vsti and does the reset
c) command line tool that inserts the same GS reset (+ volume normalization) as in QQ*.mid SCVAgmid.rar + somehow sets all the channels to SC-55 mapping
+ have VST or player/jukebox filter bad reset sysex (battlewaitmusic.mid for example)

d) EXPORT FX, channel volume, MAP (sc-55), mode (GS) all to a .mid file from the VST. If export.mid EXISTS, then attach present settings from VST UI before song begins (enough pad to have comparable SC hardware time to set all the FX etc in "bulk" so the files also would work with hardware) and remove existing reset sysex from the file (iterate through all sysex in file looking for valid reset and remove, avoids need to filter during playback - this would need warning dialog)

"reset" : set GS mode, set "ALL" SC-55 map + maybe need send GS reset again (if it depends on whether the SC-55 map was selected first?) - not sure if order dependent.
"volume normalization": some songs very loud, some very quiet. To my ear lower volume in VST improves the quality of the loud songs. Reset sets volume to 127 - in hardware SC-55 & SC-155 I am not sure if reset actually set a different "digital" master volume, these units had hardware master volume knob. Did it change analog or digital master volume?

Further problem for game midi jukebox:
Some games may set Reverb/Chorus differently when game started, so if midi is ripped from middle of game or from file (xmi2mid), those rips may lack the correct effect sysex settings (System Shock, iMUSE games possibly)

i'm mean this : https://temp-share.com/f/xfrwklcsgx/e306dbf19 … 8a6b0275ebe80f7

Minigunner wrote:

The SC-8850 still has a few things over the 8820, namely in terms of the new instruments and samples. For example, on the 8820/S […]
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DX7_EP wrote:

I may not be needing that SC-8850 anymore...:U

notindeed wrote:

Not sure how the 8850 compares to the 8820 that the SC VA vsti is trying to emulate.

The SC-8850 still has a few things over the 8820, namely in terms of the new instruments and samples. For example, on the 8820/SCVA, the Dance Dst. Gt (prog. 85, bank 11) is basically a Power Guitar sample with another one an octave + a fifth higher overlaid on it. The 8850's version is an entirely new sample.

In regards to the whole Instrument Map error, I have sent them a request for a checkbox or something that allows the synth to override CC#32 values of 0. And, well, nothing yet.

answer : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Sound_Canvas

Mobile MIDI device with no display, successor of the SC-88ST Pro. USB-powered, but does not act as a full USB audio device. GS Advanced Editor or another program is highly recommended when using this synth. Despite similarities, patches and effects occasionally play differently from the 8850 - some samples on the 8850 are stereo while the 8820 versions are mono and vice versa.

These past several posts have had me very confused. I don't know a lot about Roland products, just that most games supporting General MIDI are intended to be played back on a Sound Canvas 55, and that Sound Canvas VA is an emulator of sorts for a later module, which has an SC-55 like legacy mode. As I don't have a real SC-55, I'm ridiculously interested in this, for DOS games, for making them sound as much like an SC-55 as possible (for games that were meant to be played on an SC-55).

So, Sound Canvas VA had a bug in it that causes the sound map to get stuck in 8820 mode, even if you want 55 mode. Is this correct? This was my understanding from about halfway through the thread, and then I got totally lost. I'm trying to find out if this bug has been fixed, and based on some tests, I think it has been fixed.

I've just downloaded the trial, given Daggerfall a spin, and to my untrained ear, SC-55 mode sounds different from SC-8820 mode. I can't seem to get instruments to change in game; when I change the map mode, I must quit the game (which I do by closing DOSBox) to hear the changed instruments.

Because SC-55 sounds different from SC-8820, when playing a DOS game in DOSBox, does that mean they fixed the bug?

It still has that bug even in v1.0.2.0. The only way to make the map override setting take effect on a new instance of the plug-in is to press the Reset button in the settings after loading it.

Then I don't really understand what the bug is. Can you clarify?

I thought that the bug would cause all DOS games to sound like SC8820, regardless of what sound map is selected. I understand that the PhilsComptuerLab video is outputting SC8820 sounds. I don't know the samples well enough to distinguish SC55 from SC8820 by ear, but in Daggerfall, the default SC8820 sounds bad, and when I change it to SC55 map and restart the game, it sounds good. If there's a bug that causes the mapping to get stuck in SC8820 mode, why does Daggerfall sound different when I change the mapping and restart the game?

Or to put it another way, what is a test I can do to confirm that this bug exists? And can also run on a future version to determine whether it's been fixed yet or not?

Restart Dosbox entirely, then don't configure the VST again.

If, by some miracle, it does work, then I guess my usual workflow is broken, and I need to fix it. There was a bug report regarding that recently.

E: Yup, it was entirely my fault. The VST does maintain its state on startup, regardless of the Reset button.

Did this experiment:

Launch SOUND Canvas VA.
Map Mode->SC-55
Launch DOSBox
Play Daggerfall
Load Smuggler's Cove
Part 2 Glockenspiel instrument sounds good
Quit game
Close DOSBox
Launch DOSBox
Play Daggerfall
Load Smuggler's Cove
Part 2 Glockenspiel instrument still sounds good
Quit game
Close DOSBox
Map Mode->SC-8820
Launch DOSBox
Play Daggerfall
Load Smuggler's Cove
Part 2 Glockenspiel instrument sounds different and wrong

Is this different from what you'd expect to happen?

Nope. As I explained, the error was my own bug.

kode54 wrote:

It still has that bug even in v1.0.2.0. The only way to make the map override setting take effect on a new instance of the plug-in is to press the Reset button in the settings after loading it.

No... reset is can work , if stream comands MIDI stoped and sysex in host disabled. If selected any other mode during MIDI interface usage , selected mode not apply

Sweet! Roland actually fixed the bugs in 1.02 after my several reports.
Now Reset works fine and keeps the selected SC-XX model when manually pressed or when a sysex message is received.

** Even if GS RESET is received, the sound map specified by Map Mode has
priority.

Right there on page 7 in the manual of SC-VA!

BUT, when a GM or GM2 reset is received it is locked on 8820 regardless of the selection in the "Map Mode" box.
This means that Doom which sends GM Reset Sysex will always play in 8820.
For Doom you can always select the GS manually and hit Reset afterwards.
General Midi reset always switched to the latest SC-XX on all hardware if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT:
I was wrong, it actually uses and sounds like the last Map that was set in Options menu.
Hurray!

Another note now that Map Mode has priority when reset; if a music piece was composed on the 88Pro or 8820 for example, you would have to manually select 8820 so it will sound right, if not, the instrument will be blank if it does not exist in the previous model.
Basically, you have to know what era the song is from or what unit it was composed on, or stay on the highest model 8820.

Now you can just leave the GS Reset on in your favorite midi player (mine is vanBasco's Karaoke Player) and select the Map in SC-VA.

😀

No. SoundCanvas always reset to GM only if CC00 or CC32 no corrected.
But , this can disabled if in Host application Disable Sysex.
Then if CC00/CC32 not correc , play Piano or any other sound different with errors.
As an example, any composition for xg. If sysex on - but reset to GM for concerning correct play.

Roland User wrote:

No. SoundCanvas always reset to GM only if CC00 or CC32 no corrected. But , this can disabled if in Host application Disable Sys […]
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No. SoundCanvas always reset to GM only if CC00 or CC32 no corrected.
But , this can disabled if in Host application Disable Sysex.
Then if CC00/CC32 not correc , play Piano or any other sound different with errors.
As an example, any composition for xg. If sysex on - but reset to GM for concerning correct play.

No, SC-VA does not reset anything by itself, it's your PLAYER or MIDI file that sends the GM Reset sysex.
What player do you use?
Everything works perfectly as expected here.
In SC-VA: Options->About, make sure it says Version 1.02.

Try the demo Songs that came in the archive with SC-VA, especially 14lofi_s.midi.
Select SC-55 map for example and play a song.
Most of the songs simply have empty instrument because the midi file does not call for CC32 and expects the SC-VA is already on 8820.

You can always download the Doom midi files: http://www.mirsoft.info/gmb/music_info.php?id_file=MTM4Mg==
These files do NOT send any sysex or reset command and should keep SC-VA on GS or whatever is set right now.
If SC-VA changes to GM or GM2 your Player sends a GM or GM2 Reset sysex command.

I strongly suggest VanBasko Player from here: http://www.vanbasco.com/karaokeplayer/
It lets you select the Reset command (GS, GM, XG, SysEx, Windows Default) before each song or when paused.

BUT, when a GM or GM2 reset is received it is locked on 8820 regardless of the selection in the "Map Mode" box.
This means that Doom which sends GM Reset Sysex will always play in 8820.
For Doom you can always select the GS manually and hit Reset afterwards.

Maybe I misunderstand this, but that's not what I'm finding. DOOM sends GM Reset when you launch the game, and when you quit the game, and no other time, correct? I don't really know what makes GS and GM different as far as DOS games are concerned (all I know for sure is that World of Xeen needs GS mode, because in GM mode you hear a telephone ring when a door opens), and I don't really understand how GS Reset or GM Reset are supposed to work (or what makes them different), but I did these tests:

Launch Sound Canvas VA
Sound Module Mode=GS
Map Mode=SC-55
Launch Ultimate DOOM

Now Sound Module Mode automatically changed to GM2, but Map Mode is still SC-55. Is this the GM Reset? I cannot change Map Mode through the UI, it does nothing when clicked on. In general, Sound Canvas VA doesn't let me click on Map Mode unless the Sound Module Mode is GS.

Load Inferno
Part 1 Overdrive Guitar is louder than Part 3 Distortion Guitar.

Now I quit the game, keep Sound Canvas VA running, and reconfigure it.
Sound Module Mode=GS
Map Mode=SC-8820
Launch Ultimate DOOM
Once again, Sound Module Mode switches to GM2, and Map Mode is now SC-8820.
Load Inferno
Now Part 1 Overdrive Guitar is quieter than Part 3 Distortion Guitar, which is probably wrong.

thecrankyhermit wrote:

Maybe I misunderstand this, but that's not what I'm finding. DOOM sends GM Reset when you launch the game, and when you quit the game, and no other time, correct?

Now Sound Module Mode automatically changed to GM2, but Map Mode is still SC-55. Is this the GM Reset? I cannot change Map Mode through the UI, it does nothing when clicked on. In general, Sound Canvas VA doesn't let me click on Map Mode unless the Sound Module Mode is GS.

Correct.
Doom is the only game that actually sends a GM (General Midi) reset sysex command, when you enter or quit doom.
GM reset command to SC-VA will lock it to 8820 even if "Map Mode" displays differently.
Different games behave differently, see here: Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

EDIT:
I was wrong, it actually uses and sounds like the last Map that was set in Options menu.
Sorry about that.

In case of Doom 1&2 simply change to GS, select a Map, and click Reset after you entered the game, do the same after you quit doom if you want to play a different game.

James-F
What for ?
I say that you need to reset the SC-VA, if you listen to conventional MIDI , this not for games , this for correctly play MIDI music regardless of host application settings. For games can disable auto reset option in settings SCVA if additional. And play in games.

GM reset command to SC-VA will lock it to 8820 even if "Map Mode" displays differently.

But it sounds different too. E3M1 sounds different depending on whether I select SC-55 or SC-8820 beforehand. If it got locked to 8820 regardless, wouldn't it sound the same?

thecrankyhermit
This fix problem and work in GS mode always

Roland User wrote:

James-F
What for ?
I say that you need to reset the SC-VA, if you listen to conventional MIDI , this not for games , this for correctly play MIDI music regardless of host application settings. For games can disable auto reset option in settings SCVA if additional. And play in games.

Roland User, I don't quite understand you.

I too use SC-VA for regular midi listening and not only for games.
In this Version 1.02 I DON'T need to disable SysEx command or filter the CC32/CC0 in SAVIHost, everything just works.

What problem do you have? I want to help you if you will.

Roland User wrote:

thecrankyhermit
This fix problem and work in GS mode always

I repeat, do not disable SysEx or CC commands in the new 1.02 version, everything should work fine now.