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Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

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Reply 160 of 592, by kode54

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I've been tinkering with the SCCore library again, and logged how the library controls the various mapper override modes. I've even gone so far as to write a reset catcher, which traps any reset message and then follows it with an override reset message.

GM Reset: (gets the displayed mode wrong, display switches to "GM2")
F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7

GM2 Reset: (displays "GM" after switching)
F0 7E 7F 09 03 F7

GS Reset:
F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7

This message will be followed by the bank LSB limiter controls:
F0 41 10 42 12 40 4x yy zz sum F7

Where x is the GS part number, and yy/zz are:

00/03: Default on startup.
01/01: SC-55
01/02: SC-88
01/03: SC-88Pro
01/04: SC-8850 (According to the symbols in the binary)

And finally:

XG Reset:
F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7

Yes, as confirmed by testing and also indicated by various symbols in the SCCore library, Sound Canvas VA has rudimentary XG instrument map support. It doesn't seem to support XG variations or controls, though.

Oh, and here's an XG MIDI file that crashes even version 1.0.2.0:

https://static.kode54.net/AtlantisXG_TheShadows.mid

Reply 161 of 592, by James-F

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There are SysEx bug in SC-VA when switching to and from GM or GM2.

According to manual;
GM1 System On: F0H 7E 7F 09 01 F7
GM2 System On: F0H 7E 7F 09 03 F7
GM System Off: F0H 7E 7F 09 02 F7

“GM System Off” is a command message that resets the internal state of the Sound Canvas VA from
the GM state to its native condition. The Sound Canvas VA will reset to the GS default state.

When entering Doom or Prince of Persia 2, it sends a GM1 (01) sysex command NOT GM2 (03).
When exiting Doom it sends GM Off (02) command but SC-VA treats it as another GM1/2 System On Command, definitely a bug.

I am going to report that to Roland.

EDIT:
kode54, we posted the same thing together, a coincidence. 😎

This midi you posted has the biggest SysEx command list I have ever seen.
SC-VA does not crash but takes several seconds to load the commands before it plays the music although without effects or the correct instruments.
S-YGX50 plays it like it should.

SysEx List.png
Filename
SysEx List.png
File size
201.88 KiB
Views
1161 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception


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Reply 163 of 592, by kode54

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Maybe you can report this bug as well?

The SCCore library, the heart of Sound Canvas VA, does not free up its own memory when unloaded. And the supplied TG_terminate function, which looks like it should be able to free all memory for unloading, instead terminates the calling process completely. I almost think this thing was meant to be called by an external process that will self-terminate when it is no longer in use.

Reply 165 of 592, by kode54

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Disregard that, my Mac OS X player cannot even use the Audio Unit Component directly, as it is designed to play arbitrary sample counts _up to_ the count registered with the component using kAudioUnitProperty_MaximumFramesPerSlice.

If I use their internal library directly, I am able to request arbitrary sample counts per block without corrupting the process heap.

It creates three instances of the plug-in in-process, which uses 80-120MB of memory. This memory is not freed when the plug-in is unloaded.

Reply 166 of 592, by James-F

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Okay here is what I sent to Roland support:

Hello Roland Support team. […]
Show full quote

Hello Roland Support team.

Thank you for fixing the major bugs in the initial release version 1.00 of Sound Canvas VA VSTi, but this new 1.02 version still has some major bugs that needs to be ironed out.

Bug#1:
SysEx messages to change the GM/GM2/GS modes are not according to SC-VA manual or previous sound canvas models (8820).

According to manual and how it should work;
GM1 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7
GM2 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 03 F7
GM System Off: F0 7E 7F 09 02 F7

The GM1 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7 will actually switch to GM2!
The GM2 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 03 F7 will actually switch to GM1!
The GM System Off: F0 7E 7F 09 02 F7 will actually turn GM2 again just like F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7, but should switch to GS Default mode.

Bug#2:
When in GM1 mode SC-VA should let the user to change the Map mode (55,88,88pro,8820) because all sound canvas version supported General Midi 1, but the drop down box "Map Mode" does not work when I press it, it only works in GS mode.
However, it can still be changed when I press the ALL button and press the ARROWS buttons, thus changing what I see in "Map Mode" under Options.
When in GM2 mode, Sound Canvas VA should be locked to 8820 Map and should not let the user change the Map, because 8820 is the only version that actually supports General Midi 2.

Moreover, when switching to GM or GM2 the "Map Mode" under options will show the mode that was previously on GS and the plug-in will still sound like that on GM or GM2 mode (this is not good at all for GM2 because units like 55 or 88 do not support General Midi 2 sounds fully).
But, when I press the ALL button the screen will show "ALL-MAP-SC-8820-" even though Map Mode shows differently; it is only when I press the Arrow buttons the Map and Sound changes in GM GM2 mode, the drop box doesn't work as already mentioned.
As mentioned and to be clearer, in GM2 mode the map should be locked to 8820, but in GM1 mode the used should be able to change to any of the sound canvas Maps.

Bug#3:
Unlike the hardware units of the past, Sound Vanvas VA does not change the Map Mode sound immediately but waits for a patch change, even though the GUI already changed.
When changing Map Mode the sound should change immediately and not wait until a new instrument is called (patch change).

Hope these bugs will be informed to the programmers and fixed ASAP.
On behalf of all Sound Canvas VA users, Warm regards.

James Freeman


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Reply 167 of 592, by James-F

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A followup mail about bug#1 to Roland:

Just to add to Bug#1, […]
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Just to add to Bug#1,

When a SysEx message GM1 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7 is sent, SC-VA will erroneously switch to GM2 (including the Tone List) but only the Sounds will correctly switch to GM1 and take the selected Map Mode SC-XX sounds.
This results in an incorrect mix of GM2 Tone List and GM1 Sounds which makes the incorrect GM2 tone list play incorrect sounds and repeat many of them.
For example the SFX -> Dog will sound like a Bird Tweet.

On the other hand,
When a SysEx message GM2 System On: F0 7E 7F 09 03 F7 is sent, SC-VA will erroneously switch to GM1 (including the Tone List) but only the Sounds will correctly switch to GM2 and switch to 8820 Sounds regardless of what is in Map Mode.

So basically, the 01 and 03 SysEx message will correctly change the Sounds and Map, but not the "Module Mode" or Tone List... One big mess.

GM System Off: F0 7E 7F 09 02 F7 is the strangest!
It will change to GM2, and like 01 it will apply the "Map Mode", BUT it will also play correctly the SFX-> Dog sounds from the Tone List.
What it should really do is switch back to GS mode.

In any case, please fix this so SysEx, GUI, Tone List, Sounds, Map Mode, Module Mode, will actually correlate to one another.

Attachments

  • Filename
    GM SysEx Commands.zip
    File size
    850 Bytes
    Downloads
    36 downloads
    File comment
    Contains 3 midi files which will send the GM1 On, GM2 On, GM Off, sysex commands.
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception


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Reply 169 of 592, by PhilsComputerLab

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James-F, thank you for working with Roland to improve this!

I admit that most of this talk goes right over my head 😊

Hopefully at some point Roland has a version that is retro friendly and "just works" 😀

YouTube, Facebook, Website

Reply 170 of 592, by James-F

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:

James-F, thank you for working with Roland to improve this!
Hopefully at some point Roland has a version that is retro friendly and "just works" 😀

I sure hope so, nothing puts the sound canvas units to the test like dos games.

Got a reply from Roland:

Roland wrote:

Hi James,
Thank you for preparing this detailed report. I have passed it on to Roland Japan for their consideration. I will hopefully get a reply from them soon.

Last time it took 3 months for Roland to attend the reported bug of version 1.00, hopefully this time it will be quicker.
I'll keep you updated.


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Reply 172 of 592, by James-F

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Got a Reply!

Hi James, […]
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Hi James,

I have received a reply. This is what Roland Japan say;

>Bug#1:
>SysEx messages to change the GM/GM2/GS modes are not according to SC-VA manual or previous sound canvas models (8820).

This is a known bug, and is scheduled to be fixed with next update.

>Bug#2:
>When in GM1 mode SC-VA should let the user to change the Map mode (55,88,88pro,8820) because all sound canvas version supported General Midi 1, but the drop down box "Map Mode" does not work when I press it, it only works in GS mode.

This depends on Module Mode.
When the Sound Module Mode is “GS” and Bank LSB is “0” or nothing is defined to Bank LSB, then the selected Map Mode sounds will be played.

>However, it can still be changed when I press the ALL button and press the ARROWS buttons, thus changing what I see in "Map Mode" under Options.

This is same as above, only when the Bank LSB (cc#32) is “0” or nothing defined to Bank LSB.

>When in GM2 mode, Sound Canvas VA should be locked to 8820 Map and should not let the user change the Map, because 8820 is the only version that actually supports General Midi 2.

When GM2 Mode is selected, the sounds will be GM2 sounds regardless of Map Mode status.

>Moreover, when switching to GM or GM2 the "Map Mode" under options will show the mode that was previously on GS and the plug-in will still sound like that on GM or GM2 mode (this is not good at all for GM2 because units like 55 or 88 do not support General Midi 2 sounds fully).
>But, when I press the ALL button the screen will show "ALL-MAP-SC-8820-" even though Map Mode shows differently; it is only when I press the Arrow buttons the Map and Sound changes in GM GM2 mode, the drop box doesn't work as already mentioned.

>As mentioned and to be clearer, in GM2 mode the map should be locked to 8820, but in GM1 mode the used should be able to change to any of the sound canvas Maps.

Same as above mentioned.

The sound module mode and sound map will be defined in following order:

a) What is the status of the Sound Module Mode??

b) What is the value of the Bank LSB??

c) What is the value of the Map Mode??

>Bug#3:

>Unlike the hardware units of the past, Sound Vanvas VA does not change the Map Mode sound immediately but waits for a patch change, even though the GUI already changed.

>When changing Map Mode the sound should change immediately and not wait until a new instrument is called (patch change).

This is same as mentioned above.

What Bank LSB (cc#32) does the user defines??

If Bank LSB is other than “0” then the sound won’t be changed.

Please let me know what you think..


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Reply 174 of 592, by James-F

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In reply to Roland Japan reply:

Hi Paul, […]
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Hi Paul,

Glad to hear Bug#1 is acknowledged and should be taken care of in the next update.

But I think I was misunderstood in regard to Bug#2.

>This depends on Module Mode.
>When the Sound Module Mode is “GS” and Bank LSB is “0” or nothing is defined to Bank LSB, then the selected Map Mode sounds will be played.

I am referring to GM not GS (when Module Mode is in GM , General Midi 1).
When I manually select GM in Sound Module Mode, the drop down box that lets me select a SC-XX model (Map Mode) is not working, try to press it with the mouse.
User should be able to select the "Map Mode" when in GM also.
All Sound Canvas units support General Midi therefor the user should be able to choose on what sound canvas unit the GM is played.
Yes, in GM2 it should be locked in 8820, but NOT in GM1.

I may be mistaken and actually the SC-VA supposed to lock the Map Mode in the SC-XX that was selected in GS before the change to GM.

In regard to bug#3.

>This is same as mentioned above.
>What Bank LSB (cc#32) does the user defines??
>If Bank LSB is other than “0” then the sound won’t be changed.

I understand that CC#32 has to be selected to change the Map Mode, but the sound does not change immediately, it waits for patch/instrument change to take effect.
When a midi file is already playing, and the user selects different "Map Mode" the sound does not change immediately.
The sound only changes after I stop the midi playback and start playing again.

I hope I was clearer this time.

Thank you for your help.

James Freeman


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Reply 175 of 592, by James-F

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Fellows, I urgently need the help of someone who ones the SC-88 or SC-88Pro, before I make a fool of myself in front of Roland Corporation. 😀

Please test the following:
1. When playing a game or midi file, when you press the SC-55 map mode, DOES THE SOUND CHANGE IMMEDIATELY?
2. When playing Doom or (GM mode), can you change the Map mode? does it change immediately? Or does the map is locked on what was selected before entering Doom?


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Reply 176 of 592, by zz_denis

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I have found that a obvious difference between real SC55 and SCVA(SC55 Map).
It's the string sound (String Ensemble).
(Sorry my english is pool.)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hxhp8vq1x0kgjq/SC55.mp3?dl=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/emxad3i839hrvpp/SCVA.MP3?dl=1
ftp://ftp.monash.edu/pub/midi.songs/unsorted/ … SC/08SEPTEM.MID

Last edited by zz_denis on 2016-04-13, 08:29. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 177 of 592, by 5u3

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James-F wrote:
Fellows, I urgently need the help of someone who ones the SC-88 or SC-88Pro, before I make a fool of myself in front of Roland C […]
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Fellows, I urgently need the help of someone who ones the SC-88 or SC-88Pro, before I make a fool of myself in front of Roland Corporation. 😀

Please test the following:
1. When playing a game or midi file, when you press the SC-55 map mode, DOES THE SOUND CHANGE IMMEDIATELY?
2. When playing Doom or (GM mode), can you change the Map mode? does it change immediately? Or does the map is locked on what was selected before entering Doom?

I have a SC-88ST (it has nothing except the SC-55 map button) and the sound always changes immediately.

Reply 178 of 592, by James-F

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5u3 wrote:

I have a SC-88ST (it has nothing except the SC-55 map button) and the sound always changes immediately.

Thanks,
So the sounds changes immediately between maps while playing a song or a game?
What about when playing Doom in GM mode?


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Reply 179 of 592, by James-F

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zz_denis wrote:

I have found that a obvious difference between real SC55 and SCVA(SC55 Map).
It's the string sound (String Ensemble).

It's already known that String Ensemble 1 sounds differently on SC-88pro and 8820 than the original SC-55.
Heads Up: Roland Sound Canvas VA VSTi Plugin!

The manual from 88Pro, 8820 and VA state the following:

The SC-8820 has four maps: an SC-8820 map, which contains original sounds; an SC- 88Pro map, which contains the same sounds as t […]
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The SC-8820 has four maps: an SC-8820 map, which contains original sounds; an SC-
88Pro map, which contains the same sounds as the SC-88Pro; an SC-88 map, which
contains the same sounds as the SC-88; and an SC-55 map, which contains almost the
same
sounds as the SC-55/SC-55mkII. If you wish to use the same sounds as the SC-
88Pro, SC-88, or SC-55, change the map.


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