VOGONS


FMonster, the monster of sound synth

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Reply 240 of 263, by dr.zeissler

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If this thing will have a brother with 16Bits, sbpro and primary-ide onboard, i will replace my Formosa SC1630 in my Bridgeboard-Setup on my Amiga 2000.

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Reply 241 of 263, by brownk

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It wouldn't be far fetched to predict that the full length one would only be produced in limited numbers. Such complicated, over-the-top project tends to consume its founding designer, engineer, and/or whoever. Just look at what happened to TB multisound series.

Put me in the list for the full length card. Let me repeat; The.Full.Length.FMonster.

This will go down as an urban legend in retro pc scene before long.

Reply 242 of 263, by root42

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Just wait and see: some dude on a russian forum will reverse engineer it from the pictures here and sell kits within the month. 😉

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Reply 243 of 263, by brownk

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root42 wrote on 2020-01-22, 21:00:

Just wait and see: some dude on a russian forum will reverse engineer it from the pictures here and sell kits within the month. 😉

That's precisely one of motivations I'm after the full length version. The more complex logic + components + soldering involved, the less wannabe copycats put their prying eyes on.

Reply 244 of 263, by matze79

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brownk wrote on 2020-01-23, 12:24:
root42 wrote on 2020-01-22, 21:00:

Just wait and see: some dude on a russian forum will reverse engineer it from the pictures here and sell kits within the month. 😉

That's precisely one of motivations I'm after the full length version. The more complex logic + components + soldering involved, the less wannabe copycats put their prying eyes on.

Hey the russian guy just took the public schematics 😉

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Reply 245 of 263, by Fagear

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matze79 wrote on 2020-01-23, 21:47:

Hey the russian guy just took the public schematics 😉

And I do not do any schematics for my project. Except of small snippets on paper.

But nevermind, there was copycat version of SSI-2001 replica created on those forums too. Oh, well.

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 246 of 263, by brownk

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Fagear wrote on 2020-01-23, 22:13:
matze79 wrote on 2020-01-23, 21:47:

Hey the russian guy just took the public schematics 😉

And I do not do any schematics for my project. Except of small snippets on paper.

But nevermind, there was copycat version of SSI-2001 replica created on those forums too. Oh, well.

So that proves my point is moot then, huh? 😉

Whatever that is, put me in for the most extravagantly, hilariously complicated FMonster. 😜

Reply 248 of 263, by matze79

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I`m also interested into a PCB or full kit if avaible.

The same guy who cloned the ARGUS also cloned the SSI-2001 and sells the pcbs on ebay and on his website, nevermind.
Anyway i don`t expect it will be high volume.
And the PCBs are not as good looking as the Original Clone (only HASL..).

Is there Stereo Player Software for the SSI ?

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https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

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Reply 251 of 263, by root42

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Um. How much will a kit be? The component count is… immense. The boards are HUGE. I would guess 150€ at least for a kit?

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Reply 252 of 263, by Fagear

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root42 wrote on 2020-01-25, 21:27:

Um. How much will a kit be? ... I would guess 150€ at least for a kit?

This is still not calculated... I have to make consolidated BOM and check prices.

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 253 of 263, by Fagear

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Some new photos...

Attachments

New BIG soundcard: FMonster.
Covox Sound Master replica
Innovation SSI-2001 replica & DuoSID.
My audio/video collection.

Reply 255 of 263, by dogchainx

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Nitroraptor53 wrote on 2020-03-02, 00:05:

Could I get just a DuoSID?

I'd also like a DuoSID. =)

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Reply 256 of 263, by Roxor

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This was quite a ride. Took me a couple of days on and off to read the thread. Even though I won't be buying one (no retro machine to put it in), I look forward to seeing the finished result, just for the sheer triumph of such an ambitious project.

I bet the section-debug boards could be pretty good sellers in their own right, though.

Reply 257 of 263, by Utafuinki

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Fagear wrote on 2018-07-18, 08:06:
NewRisingSun wrote:

The term "FM" only refers to the Yamaha OPx chips, at least on PCs. Tandy 3-voice, CMS and SID are not "FM".

You are right, I've used incorrect terminology. Let me rephrase that. All of those are frequency synths with different types of modulations. Some have primitive amplitude modulation (for ADSR), some have ring modulation on top of that (SID), some have frequency modulation as well (OPLx).

The term 'FM', although strictly meaning 'Frequency Modulation', is not applicable to ALL modulation - no amount of rephrasing will make your erroneous statement correct. Instead of 'rephrasing' (and thus rationalize and explain your mistake away), maybe it's better to just admit you made a mistake, correct it and move on.

SID's ring modulation has _NOTHING_ to do with FM.

ADSR is not PRIMITIVE, but it's extremely flexible and capable in the right hands, and can create a plethora of sounds not available otherwise! Please have some respect.

ADSR is also not called 'modulation', it's an ENVELOPE. Otherwise ANYTHING is modulation, including your coffee maker. In other words, your coffee maker and ADSR are equally "FM".

There is no such term as "frequency synth", because you can't just take the "F" and "M" separately and start applying them every which way and apply them all over the place.

OPLx doesn't "have frequency modulation AS WELL" (implying they have all the other features). First of all, Yamaha synths are FM synths, they ARE Frequency Modulation, that's their whole basis. This is not true of ANY of the other chips / synths you mentioned.

Second of all, 'having' and 'being' something are completely different concepts. Third of all, Yamaha synths / chips do not have ring modulation, it's a completely different mindset, completely different structure, completely different way of creating and synthesizing a sound.

You have to understand that SID, for example, is based on ADDITIVE synthesis, whereas Yamaha FM synths and chips are based on SUBTRACTIVE synthesis. There's a carrier and modulator.

SID has waveforms and filters (many different kinds), synchronization, ring-modulation and combinations. The waveforms are the basics, on top of which, things are added to create and synthesize the sound.

FM chips don't have filters, ring-modulation or synchronization. The principle on which the different chips work is entirely different, so it's a bit insulting that you try to lump them all as 'FM', when they factually, certainly aren't, and on top of that, try to weasel out of your ERROR and MISTAKE just to keep lumping them all into the 'FM' category!

FM only applies to the Yamaha chips and synths, period.

You can't just say SID and the others are also 'manipulated frequencies' (because of course then you can say that anything and everything is, including your coffee maker), and then use THAT flimsy rationalization as proof that SID is FM and Tandy is FM.

Loosely thinking, any sound is 'frequency', and if you manipulate any sound in any way, then you can call it 'manipulated frequency', or 'frequency manipulation'. But this does _NOT_ give you free pass to call SID and Tandy FM synths, since 'FM' is a standard industry term that means a VERY SPECIFIC THING, and SID and Tandy do NOT qualify for that thing.

I HOPE this is now clear.

Yamaha chips and synths = FM.

SID, Tandy, Atari ST chip, Neo-Geo chip, NES chip, Amiga chip, Dreamcast chip, Super Famicom chip, Atari Lynx chip, and your coffee maker are _NOT_ FM, no matter how you try to force them to be FM.

Reply 259 of 263, by Tiido

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Yamaha OPx chips do phase modulation as their core synthesis method (everything happens within a period of a waveform rather than crossing them, FM does not work in such manner), and it is more or less an epitome of additive synthesis where one sound modulates another to create all new stuff, rather than subtractive stuff where an harmonically rich sound such as a sawtooth has bits removed with filters to create new harmonic profile for new tonal quality such as what is happening on SID and most analog synthesizers out there.

ADSR envelopes are technically form of amplitude modulation.

"Wavetable" techincally applies to things that use a small lookup table to produce single cycle waveforms, such as what sound chip in TurboGrafix16/PC Engine does rather than things capable of playing arbitrary samples with arbitrary length such as things like OPL4, many Roland and other sample based devices etc. that are ROMplers/samplers. Wavetable is techincally a subset/predecessor of that stuff.

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