VOGONS


Reply 100 of 131, by BeastOfSoda

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appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-07, 09:22:
MadLynx wrote on 2021-06-07, 08:16:

AWE64 Legacy, Orpheus and many others also not a reproduction of any retro hardware. But they are in the list.

I'd say these need to be removed rather than the dreamblaster cards be added, but.. touche.

Out of curiosity, what is your definition of "reproduction"? Because, if you're looking for 1:1 replicas of older hardware, those would make little sense. If you were to redesign a Sound Blaster 16, would you do so by keeping the original model's issues in place (hanging notes, DMA clicking, no intelligent MPU mode, noisy output...) for the sake of fidelity, or would you improve on those aspects to deliver a product better than the originals, like the Awe64 legacy which ditches CQM for a real OPL3 chip, or the Orpheus which is basically a penultimate Sound Blaster card? Note that we are not talking about quirks that give the original hardware its character: we are talking about straight up design flaws, which keep the original boards from being quality products.

Tiido wrote on 2021-06-07, 10:05:

I would think the list should contain all the recently made hardware that is explicitly designed to be used with the retro hardware with their software environments. I imagine primary purpose of this list is more or less to easily see what is available with intent to actually get and use these things instead of period correct hardware, whatever it may be as in the end it plays the sound and music in the games etc. just like the period correct hardware does, fulfilling the function.

My point of view is the same as yours: I think the purpose was to provide a list of viable alternatives to aging and increasingly rarer hardware to replicate the same user experience as back in the days, maybe by fixing the original hardware's blunders in the process.

Reply 101 of 131, by appiah4

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BeastOfSoda wrote on 2021-06-07, 10:11:
appiah4 wrote on 2021-06-07, 09:22:
MadLynx wrote on 2021-06-07, 08:16:

AWE64 Legacy, Orpheus and many others also not a reproduction of any retro hardware. But they are in the list.

I'd say these need to be removed rather than the dreamblaster cards be added, but.. touche.

Out of curiosity, what is your definition of "reproduction"? Because, if you're looking for 1:1 replicas of older hardware, those would make little sense. If you were to redesign a Sound Blaster 16, would you do so by keeping the original model's issues in place (hanging notes, DMA clicking, no intelligent MPU mode, noisy output...) for the sake of fidelity, or would you improve on those aspects to deliver a product better than the originals, like the Awe64 legacy which ditches CQM for a real OPL3 chip, or the Orpheus which is basically a penultimate Sound Blaster card? Note that we are not talking about quirks that give the original hardware its character: we are talking about straight up design flaws, which keep the original boards from being quality products.

I'd do a full reproduction. That's just me though.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 102 of 131, by LightStruk

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BeastOfSoda wrote on 2021-06-07, 08:27:

Well, the X2GS contains an officially licensed Roland GS sound bank, which makes it sound very close to an SC-55 module. That should at least count as a reproduction with said sound bank loaded.

That is a good point. The X2GS is in the same category as the Yucatan FX - a wavetable card designed to mimic a vintage MIDI synth by including its sample set. There's even a vintage Roland SC-55 wavetable board - the SCB-55. I will add the X2GS to the list.

Reply 103 of 131, by BeastOfSoda

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There's another odd duck missing, which squarely belongs in the amalgamations category: the TexElec SAAYM, which is a Creative Game Blaster clone with a Yamaha YM2151 (original OPL spec) hot glued on for giggles. Link: https://texelec.com/product/saaym/

Last edited by BeastOfSoda on 2021-06-08, 19:05. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 104 of 131, by Tiido

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YM2151 is OPM and has nothing to do with OPL. It is very similar to OPN though but nothing on PC can use it. IBM Music Feature card does have 2151 as a MIDI device but this card won't be compatible since it isn't exposing it as a MIDI device but a direct access part. Some emulation or VGM playback software could use it though.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 105 of 131, by BeastOfSoda

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Tiido wrote on 2021-06-08, 18:43:

YM2151 is OPM and has nothing to do with OPL. It is very similar to OPN though but nothing on PC can use it. IBM Music Feature card does have 2151 as a MIDI device but this card won't be compatible since it isn't exposing it as a MIDI device but a direct access part. Some emulation or VGM playback software could use it though.

Thanks for the clarification, I have fixed my post 🙂 I think I'll read up more on the topic.

Reply 106 of 131, by LightStruk

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BeastOfSoda wrote on 2021-06-08, 18:25:

There's another odd duck missing, which squarely belongs in the amalgamations category: the TexElec SAAYM, which is a Creative Game Blaster clone with a Yamaha YM2151 (original OPL spec) hot glued on for giggles. Link: https://texelec.com/product/saaym/

Added.

Reply 107 of 131, by carlostex

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Tiido wrote on 2021-06-08, 18:43:

YM2151 is OPM and has nothing to do with OPL. It is very similar to OPN though but nothing on PC can use it. IBM Music Feature card does have 2151 as a MIDI device but this card won't be compatible since it isn't exposing it as a MIDI device but a direct access part. Some emulation or VGM playback software could use it though.

IBM Music Feature has an OPP YM2164.

Reply 108 of 131, by Tiido

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Right, yes though it is nearly directly compatible with only some minor differences having to do with test register(s) and timer but actual synthesizer part side of things is same (and pinout is same too).

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 109 of 131, by Caluser2000

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I've got a few of the real ones. I think they will last till I meet his noodleness The Flying Spaghetti Monster. 😉

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Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
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Reply 110 of 131, by matze79

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You can also add:

Tandy Nano
https://www.retrokits.de/index.php/tandy-nano … -soundcard-dht/
https://github.com/matze79/Tandy-Nano

ISA DAC r0/r1
https://www.retrokits.de/index.php/dual-isa-d … ing-on-isa-bus/
https://www.retrokits.de/index.php/dual-isa-dac-r1/
For r1, still some files not on github.. did some updates to get it auto detect as lpt port.

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 112 of 131, by Bondi

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LightStruk wrote on 2021-06-21, 16:10:

Thanks, matze79. The list should now have all Retroianer sound cards with links to their product pages.

There is another one coming. A PCMCIA sound card. Re: Newly made PCMCIA sound card
There is already a working prototype and the first version of pcb will be ready soon. I tihnk it can be added to the list when it gets a name and a dedicated thread.

PCMCIA Sound Cards chart

Reply 113 of 131, by LightStruk

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Bondi wrote on 2021-06-21, 16:19:

There is another one coming. A PCMCIA sound card. Re: Newly made PCMCIA sound card
There is already a working prototype and the first version of pcb will be ready soon. I tihnk it can be added to the list when it gets a name and a dedicated thread.

Very cool project indeed... and it maybe squeaks into the criteria for this list. As I understand it, the OPL portion of this PCMCIA card is fully compatible with no software modifications. The SB side, however, requires a EMM386 driver to capture the DMA / IRQ traffic, since those signals are not found on the PCMCIA connector. It's a bit like a DSDMA driver for a PCI sound card. The on-board dream.fr wavetable is also not vintage, but I don't hold that against a card if it has other fully compatible vintage hardware or workalike.

I've excluded the OPL2LPT from the list because it requires a non-vintage driver to work. yyzkevin's project does not clone a vintage PCMCIA sound card, so its SB driver is necessarily non-vintage.

Maybe I should make a separate section for "requires modified or new software."

Reply 114 of 131, by Bondi

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LightStruk wrote on 2021-07-01, 17:21:
Very cool project indeed... and it maybe squeaks into the criteria for this list. As I understand it, the OPL portion of this PC […]
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Bondi wrote on 2021-06-21, 16:19:

There is another one coming. A PCMCIA sound card. Re: Newly made PCMCIA sound card
There is already a working prototype and the first version of pcb will be ready soon. I tihnk it can be added to the list when it gets a name and a dedicated thread.

Very cool project indeed... and it maybe squeaks into the criteria for this list. As I understand it, the OPL portion of this PCMCIA card is fully compatible with no software modifications. The SB side, however, requires a EMM386 driver to capture the DMA / IRQ traffic, since those signals are not found on the PCMCIA connector. It's a bit like a DSDMA driver for a PCI sound card. The on-board dream.fr wavetable is also not vintage, but I don't hold that against a card if it has other fully compatible vintage hardware or workalike.

I've excluded the OPL2LPT from the list because it requires a non-vintage driver to work. yyzkevin's project does not clone a vintage PCMCIA sound card, so its SB driver is necessarily non-vintage.

Maybe I should make a separate section for "requires modified or new software."

It's totally up to you whether to include this card or not. But it's basically a reproduction of IBM 3D Sound card with some enhancements. Well, a lot of enhancements 😀 And the driver, the TSR, is also a reproduction of IBM's TSR. It's based on an expired IBM patent.

PCMCIA Sound Cards chart

Reply 118 of 131, by digger

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LightStruk wrote on 2021-07-01, 17:21:

Maybe I should make a separate section for "requires modified or new software."

Yes, please do. 🙂 I absolutely understand the importance of making an distinction, but this is a useful category in its own right.

These devices, such as the OPL2LPT, OPL3LPT and MPU-232, are still made with retro gaming and tinkering in mind, and make it possible for DOS games to be played with sound on systems that would otherwise not allow it, for varying reasons. Also, one could argue that such devices at least *partially* implement certain original sound devices or interfaces from back in the day, with the intent of bridging the old with the new.

An other interesting angle is that these (or at least the three that I mentioned) happen to be devices that could theoretically have been developed and sold back in the DOS and early Windows days, and in fact work fine with computers and laptops from that era.