If your CT2760 has DSP version 4.13, that card is quite versatile for your build. While the hanging note bug can be observed with DSP 4.13, there are numerous reports that it does not occur in conjunction with the CT1747 bus interface chip (which is used on the CT2760 card). So this card gives you

• SB 16 compatibility
• licensed OPL3 copy (so authentic FM sound)
• waveblaster header for your Yamaha board
• AWE32 wavetable.

Second, you need a GUS-compatible card. I don't think you need the extra features of the Gus PnP, so pick either.

Third, you need something SB Pro compatible (the SB16 is not!). This might either be the original SB Pro, or it might be the Maxi Sound 64 or the EWS64. If you are after the low-fi experience of the original SB Pro, that's the way you have to go. This will yield a port conflict on port 388 between the OPL3 on the SB Pro and the integrated OPL3 on the SB16, but it is most likely benign. If you don't care about the limited quality of the SB Pro, use the CS4236 on one of the wavetable cards. They also provide you a second MPU interface to choose from, if you don't like the sample set of the Yamaha daughter board in some game.

The Pinnacle board and the Soundscape Elite are no use for Soundblaster compatibility (as are the GUS variants), so you can use them in conjunction with the SB Pro, if you didn't choose the Maxi Sound 64 or the EWS64 XL in the previous step.

You will likely run out of IRQs with the setup. Cards with flexible setup tools have an advantage on it. Also PnP cards can easily be disabled completely while you don't use them.

The CT2760 is fine, but the CT3900 is mostly the same and may be cleaner.

Four ISA cards is a high number for the limited resources available.

The DB50XG is a nice option to have. Given a choice I wouldn't trust any of the Creative cards for an MPU host. Seems like the only alternative is the Turtle Beach Pinnacle, which may not be practical in such a multi-standard setup.

The AWE64 is the best card for SB16/AWE games. Some SB/SBPro/Adlib games are better with the CT1600 or a nice clone, especially if you don't like CQM FM.

firage wrote on 2020-07-05, 17:04:

The CT2760 is fine, but the CT3900 is mostly the same and may be cleaner.

Thanks for the addition, I mixed up stuff. The CT2760 actually exists in different revisions, and only some of them have the authentic OPL3 sound, see here: AWE32 revision thread

firage wrote on 2020-07-05, 17:04:

The DB50XG is a nice option to have. Given a choice I wouldn't trust any of the Creative cards for an MPU host. Seems like the only alternative is the Turtle Beach Pinnacle, which may not be practical in such a multi-standard setup.

My favorite (but German) source about soundblaster revisions claims that the CT2760/CT3900 are not affected by hanging notes in practice, so they are worth a try in my oppion. See http://www.amoretro.de/guides-workshops/creat … r-modellnummern. On the other hand, the Pinnacle can not expose the daughterboard to DOS applications according to Re: Turtle Beach Multisound Pinnacle - What is it?.

By the way, that Ensoniq Soundscape ELITE may be due for a capacitor replacement . A lot of those had really flaky capacitors, AFAIK (to the point of needing news caps to work at all ).

The wayI would approach the multi sound card question is to start by deciding what you actually want from the setup in terms of actual features . You may find that you do not actually need 4 sound cards at once (having an actual SB Pro or a second compatible is rather pointless if you already have one SB Pro compatible, IMHO).

And even if having 4 cards is part of your objectives, starting with need you actually need will make the procees easier, IMHO .

Feel free to share to sure any feature requirement list, if you want suggestions based on it .

Agreed with the comment above that 4 cards is pushing it in terms of resources. I once did the same and even though it all worked together, a lot of games couldn't use one or more of the cards because of slightly exotic resource combinations which weren't supported by the software...

As for which cards, I'd start by listing what features you want and see which cards best fit the bill.

Looking at that lot, I'd aim for:
- real OPL3
- bug-free MPU-401
- SBPro2 DA
- SB16 DA
- GUS

Nice to have: the various MIDI wavetable implementations (AWE, Ensoniq, Dream, TB)

Now, you have lots of epic cards to choose from. OPL3, SBPro2 and SB16 are no problem, and GUS is GUS (well, you can choose GF1 or Interwave), so bug-free MPU-401 strikes me as the biggest challenge. I'm familiar with the Creative stuff and only the AWE64 comes close (no hanging note - but slowdowns if DA and MIDI played simultaneously). I've never tried MPU-401 on the Crystal chips used by Guillemot and Terratec, but what I hear about it sounds good.

So take one of those. The Guillemot card has a much better wavetable header location, so all other things being nearly equal I'd take that. That gives you SBPro2 and MPU-401 (and Dream), then you want SB16. Given the CS4236 doesn't have a real OPL3, you probably want an SB16 with OPL3. The AWE32 CT3900 strikes me as the best option, as it gives you both plus RAM expansion options to mess with sound fonts. Its buggy MIDI isn't relevant if the CS4236-board handles that. Then you have two slots left for one of the GUS and whatever else you want/can get working.

You can stick the Yamaha daughterboard on the Guillemot.

As for non-Creative SB16 options: yep, there are options, but none that you have. Also, the cards tend to be a bit low-end and crappy. Best examples are C-Media CMI8330 and Avance Logic ALS007, 100, 100+ and 120, where the 100+ and 120 don't do high DMA, which means very bad compatibility (although better than nothing if your motherboard also doesn't do high DMA!). As the ALS007 and 100 are generally decent and get paired with a 100% clone OPL3, they're probably my suggested choice for non-Creative SB16 - but you need to get lucky with a good-quality card, and even then you're definitely not on the same level as the cards you have there.

mkarcher wrote on 2020-07-05, 17:21:

firage wrote on 2020-07-05, 17:04:

The DB50XG is a nice option to have. Given a choice I wouldn't trust any of the Creative cards for an MPU host. Seems like the only alternative is the Turtle Beach Pinnacle, which may not be practical in such a multi-standard setup.

My favorite (but German) source about soundblaster revisions claims that the CT2760/CT3900 are not affected by hanging notes in practice, so they are worth a try in my oppion. See http://www.amoretro.de/guides-workshops/creat … r-modellnummern. On the other hand, the Pinnacle can not expose the daughterboard to DOS applications according to Re: Turtle Beach Multisound Pinnacle - What is it?.

That source is incorrect. It's still affected by the Type 1 HNB as at the start of Hexen level 2.

Lots of good points! Thank you for the feedback 😀

I looked at my CT2760, and it's DSP v4.12. I'm going to look into the possibility of replacing the CT1741 chip.

Regarding the GUS, I definitely want native GF1 in my setup. And, I don't think I'm going to have enough room for the Max. I was able to pick up a Primax SoundStorm. It's basically a CD3 and fits the bill.

Between the Maxi64 and EWS64, which is the better card? They are both so similar.

Between the TBS Pinnacle and Ensoniq Soundscape Elite, which would you choose?

I definitely agree on IRQs... These cards are going to eat a lot of them! I plan to add a menu to my autoexec.bat, to choose which sound card I want to initialize.

-Brian

bbuchholtz wrote on 2020-07-06, 14:30:

Lots of good points! Thank you for the feedback :) […]
Show full quote

Lots of good points! Thank you for the feedback 😀

I looked at my CT2760, and it's DSP v4.12. I'm going to look into the possibility of replacing the CT1741 chip.

Regarding the GUS, I definitely want native GF1 in my setup. And, I don't think I'm going to have enough room for the Max. I was able to pick up a Primax SoundStorm. It's basically a CD3 and fits the bill.

Between the Maxi64 and EWS64, which is the better card? They are both so similar.

"Better" is abstract.

Concrete here:
- you already have AWE with the CT2760, so no added value in another AWE.
- you already have SB16 but no SBPro2
- you already have flawed MPU-401 in the CT2760, so you need a card with bug-free MP-401.

Given that, the Maxi64 is better for you in this setup.

Between the TBS Pinnacle and Ensoniq Soundscape Elite, which would you choose?

Whichever you can get to work easiest... as you already have 2x SB-compatible, try not to initialize whatever AdLib/SB functionality these two have.

I definitely agree on IRQs... These cards are going to eat a lot of them! I plan to add a menu to my autoexec.bat, to choose which sound card I want to initialize.

Three is going to be easy:

#1 (Maxi64): A220 I7 D1 (no OPL if you can avoid setting it)
#2 (CT2760): A240 I5 D3 (or 0) H5
#3 (GUS): A260 I3 D6 and/or 7 (you can set multiple features to same DMA on the card, no need to use 4!)
#4: whatever is left.

My CT2760 has a CT1701-T DAC and CT3900 has CT1703-A. So that seals the deal. Looks like I'll be using the CT3900 😀

Looking like my final build is going to be the following:
- SoundBlaster AWE32 CT3900
- Gravis UltraSound Primax SoundStorm (GF1)

My short list:
- Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio
- TerraTec AudioSystem EWS64 XL

- Turtle Beach Systems PINNACLE (leaning towards this one)
- Ensoniq Soundscape ELITE

Between the Maxi64 and EWS64, which would be better suited for SB Pro?

-Brian

I think i can speak a lot about multi Sound card systems, i currently have 8 installed in my main Socket 7 system.

Before anyone cries bullshit, i have 8 because i'm using an industrial DFI board and i expanded the ISA bus with a 2 slot backplane.

1- AWE Upgrade CT1920; A620
2-SPEA V7 Media FX (soundscape clone); A534, IRQ15, DMA3, (shared works fine), MPU350
3-Orpheus soundcard (prototype); A220, IRQ5, DMA1, MPU320(TB60XG), MPU330, WSS608
4- Innovation SSI-2001 replica; A280
5- Gravis Ultrasound PnP; A260, IRQ7, DMA7
6- Pro Audio Spectrum; A388, IRQ3, DMA3(shared works fine)
7- Game Blaster; A210
8- IBM Music Feature Card; A2A40, IRQ4 (base address overlaps A240 and A340)
9- TNDLPT;

Just to give an idea, maybe in the future i can replace the game master with a FMonster, by populating only the modules that i'm interested in. So i would gain in a single slot: Tandy, SSI, Game Blaster and Covox Sound Master. It would also free me up slot 4 which i could populate with the holy trail of Sound card collections: the AdLib Gold! In this case AdLib Gold would use IRQ10 DMA0 which are still free. I suspect the AdLib Gold wouldn't get along with the Pro Audio Spectrum, due to the Gold Control Chip addresses. I wish i had one to try.

So if you plan things well you can actually use a lot of sound cards depending on what you use of course.

So my advice to you:
1- Use your CT3900 - A220 IRQ5 DMA1 MPU330, HDMA5 E620(EMU8000);

2- Use the GUS PnP instead, i found that GF1 cards usually hog port 388 which will prevent OPL Music from playing. Initializing the card will solve the problem though. A260, IRQ7, DMA7

3- Soundscape ELITE, disable Soundblaster emulation you won't need it A534, IRQ10, DMA3, MPU320 (or other port of choice)

4- Guillemot/Terratec: try to disable everything Crystal chip related and just use the SAM9704 with a good Sound font. There is a particular soundfont that sounds like a pure copy of Roland Sound Canvas.

By the way is your Guillemot card ESS Audiodrive based or Crystal?

carlostex wrote on 2020-07-07, 01:24:

I think i can speak a lot about multi Sound card systems, i currently have 8 installed in my main Socket 7 system.

Before anyone cries bullshit, i have 8 because i'm using an industrial DFI board and i expanded the ISA bus with a 2 slot backplane.

[...]

SSI-2001, CMS and TNDY are oddballs that don't really conflict with anything else, so they don't count 😜

Nonetheless, impresive to get the rest all working 😀

My experience was that the more soundblaster-like a card was, the more difficult it was to get it to cooperate. More than two Sounblasters tended to be the biggest problem, I always hit a brick wall when trying to add number three.

So my advice to you: 1- Use your CT3900 - A220 IRQ5 DMA1 MPU330, HDMA5 E620(EMU8000); […]
Show full quote

So my advice to you:
1- Use your CT3900 - A220 IRQ5 DMA1 MPU330, HDMA5 E620(EMU8000);

2- Use the GUS PnP instead, i found that GF1 cards usually hog port 388 which will prevent OPL Music from playing. Initializing the card will solve the problem though. A260, IRQ7, DMA7

3- Soundscape ELITE, disable Soundblaster emulation you won't need it A534, IRQ10, DMA3, MPU320 (or other port of choice)

4- Guillemot/Terratec: try to disable everything Crystal chip related and just use the SAM9704 with a good Sound font. There is a particular soundfont that sounds like a pure copy of Roland Sound Canvas.

Why disable the SB on the CS4236? 1, 2 and 3 don't give you SBPro2 support, and two Soundblasters generally work fine. Looking at the resources, A240 I3 D0 should be free, although I'd suggest to rather go for A220 I7 D1 on the one, A240 I5 D0 on the other. That would mean putting the GUS on a different IRQ - maybe 3 or 11. Also, you need the CS4236 for good MPU401 as the CT3900 is buggy with type 2 (legitimate) hanging notes and slowdowns when DA and MIDI are used simultaneously.

dionb wrote on 2020-07-07, 11:26:

SSI-2001, CMS and TNDY are oddballs that don't really conflict with anything else, so they don't count 😜

SSI and Tandy yes, but CMS and a Sound Blaster Pro/16 sharing the same base port is not recommended. The CMS chips and FM chip listening on the exact adresses is nasty and produces random noises that can be quite horrible to say the least. There were reasons why CMS was dropped from the Sound Blaster Pro and it wasn't just because CMS was not so important anymore. This exists.

The IMF card can be problematic too because of the way it decodes addresses. Use the default 2A20h port and you can kiss it goodbye to a Sound Blaster working at address 220. Kiss it goodbye to any MIDI card you might have at 320 too.

dionb wrote on 2020-07-07, 11:26:

Why disable the SB on the CS4236? 1, 2 and 3 don't give you SBPro2 support, and two Soundblasters generally work fine. Looking at the resources, A240 I3 D0 should be free, although I'd suggest to rather go for A220 I7 D1 on the one, A240 I5 D0 on the other. That would mean putting the GUS on a different IRQ - maybe 3 or 11. Also, you need the CS4236 for good MPU401 as the CT3900 is buggy with type 2 (legitimate) hanging notes and slowdowns when DA and MIDI are used simultaneously.

If someone wants to have 2 Sound Blaster cards working at the same time, anyone can do it. I don't get it, in my opinion having a Pnp SB Pro 2 compatible card and a PnP AWE32 makes it easy to set both at A220 IRQ5 DMA1 and then use batch files to activate the one you want. I know only of one game that supports the SB16 and not anything else: The Last Express. Having a GUS + a Soundscape Elite defeats IMO the purpose of SB16. If the user wants the SB16 because of AWE good news is that the AWE synth can be enabled on its own, with the rest disabled.
I also wouldn't recommend a GUS set at high IRQ, some games won't accept high IRQ's. Duke Nukem 3D jumps to mind.

All is good, the OP should experiment, that's the only way to learn.

Duke Nukem 3D is the one game where I have to change my GUS MAX environment variable from IRQ11 to IRQ5 and reinitialize. The high IRQ is good for most stuff.

You will usually want to initialize any GUS cards in the system, as they can otherwise trap joystick ports as well as AdLib ports. You might be right that the PnP is free of that issue.

Hey Guys,

Sorry for my delayed response. I had a change of direction. As much as I would have liked to use my ECS SI5PI AIO with this setup, it was just too limiting in my use of sound cards. I decided to go with a DFI G586ITOX. It supports 6 full-length ISA slots. It's an industrial-class motherboard. Not as awesome as carlostex's monster machine. But, this should allow me to use a 5 or 6-sound card setup.

I'm debating between these two setups...

Setup 1:
- Sound Blaster Pro 2 CT1600
- Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3900
- Gravis UltraSound MAX (GF1 and Crystal CS4231)
- Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 (ESS AudioDrive ES1868F)
- Ensoniq Soundscape ELITE
- Turtle Beach Systems PINNACLE (Yamaha DB50XG)

Setup 2:
- Sound Blaster Pro 2 CT1600
- Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3900
- Gravis UltraSound CD3 (GF1)
- TerraTec AudioSystem EWS64 XL (Crystal CS4236B)
- Ensoniq Soundscape ELITE
- Turtle Beach Systems PINNACLE (Yamaha DB50XG)

I currently have 5 sound cards playing nice with each other. But, I'm not having luck getting my Maxi Sound 64 to play nice with the Sound Blaster cards. It insists on occupying base address 220, until it's been initialized otherwise. Is there a way to change this?

Next week, I'm going to play around setup 2.

-Brian

I would simply init the Maxi Sound first, before the other cards. Or is that not an option for some reason ?

I still don't understand the use of the CT1600 if you already have an SB Pro compatible in the system, unless you want to keep it for the real OPL3. Doesn't your CT3900 already have a real OPL3 (pretty sure it does)?

Keep me honest here... but, I was under the impression that SB16, AWE32 and AWE64 don't have true/full SBPro support. If that is not the case, then I am all for deprecating the use of the CT1600.

Here's one of the places I've read this:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-18015.html

The most compatible soundcard for DOS is the Sound Blaster Pro.

There are many games that support SB Pro but not SB16. SB16 can't do stereo sound when emulating SB Pro.

-Brian

bbuchholtz wrote on 2020-07-12, 19:56:

Keep me honest here... but, I was under the impression that SB16, AWE32 and AWE64 don't have true/full SBPro support. If that is […]
Show full quote

Keep me honest here... but, I was under the impression that SB16, AWE32 and AWE64 don't have true/full SBPro support. If that is not the case, then I am all for deprecating the use of the CT1600.

Here's one of the places I've read this:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-18015.html

The most compatible soundcard for DOS is the Sound Blaster Pro.

There are many games that support SB Pro but not SB16. SB16 can't do stereo sound when emulating SB Pro.

-Brian

The SB16, AWE32 AWE64 can't play SB Pro wave audio in stereo, but both the Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 and the EWS64 XL can .