VOGONS


Reply 41 of 385, by cyclone3d

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amalgim wrote on 2020-12-05, 18:29:

Dude, this would be even more awesome if someone could design a small LCD that fits in a spare floppy bay to show the MT-32 messages.

Yes it would be. We mentioned that earlier.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 42 of 385, by gdjacobs

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-12-05, 18:22:
There are also these: S-YXG70 S-YXG100 S-YXG2006LE (this is a VST... I have a copy but have never used it. Not sure what it is b […]
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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-11-30, 21:15:

I'm not aware of soft synths which do XG aside from S-YXG50 from Yamaha. That might be viable using an x86 Chroot and Wine depending on the emulation overhead required, but it does involve jumping through some hoops.

There are also these:
S-YXG70
S-YXG100
S-YXG2006LE (this is a VST... I have a copy but have never used it. Not sure what it is based on)

These are all Yamaha releases? Different versions of the same code base?

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 43 of 385, by cyclone3d

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-12-08, 01:14:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-12-05, 18:22:
There are also these: S-YXG70 S-YXG100 S-YXG2006LE (this is a VST... I have a copy but have never used it. Not sure what it is b […]
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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-11-30, 21:15:

I'm not aware of soft synths which do XG aside from S-YXG50 from Yamaha. That might be viable using an x86 Chroot and Wine depending on the emulation overhead required, but it does involve jumping through some hoops.

There are also these:
S-YXG70
S-YXG100
S-YXG2006LE (this is a VST... I have a copy but have never used it. Not sure what it is based on)

These are all Yamaha releases? Different versions of the same code base?

Ok. Did a bit more diffing and found some more info. There are even more than what I knew about.
https://soundprogramming.net/software/yamaha- … re-synthesizer/
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169094

Edit:
Most can be downloaded from Yamaha's archived site.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.yamah … k/xg/download/*

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header

Reply 44 of 385, by Doornkaat

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Will this device be useful for those titles that require an actual MT-32 and will sound wrong on an SC-55 or any other MIDI device? I believe the issue I'm thinking about was connected to intelligent mode stuff.

I'm mostly clueless on MT-32 stuff so please excuse the weirdly worded question. 😅

Reply 45 of 385, by SScorpio

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Doornkaat wrote on 2020-12-09, 15:51:

Will this device be useful for those titles that require an actual MT-32 and will sound wrong on an SC-55 or any other MIDI device? I believe the issue I'm thinking about was connected to intelligent mode stuff.

I'm mostly clueless on MT-32 stuff so please excuse the weirdly worded question. 😅

I believe you should be able to run MUNT or possibly MT32 Pi which uses the actual ROM data and works like a real MT32.

Reply 46 of 385, by Doornkaat

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SScorpio wrote on 2020-12-09, 15:55:
Doornkaat wrote on 2020-12-09, 15:51:

Will this device be useful for those titles that require an actual MT-32 and will sound wrong on an SC-55 or any other MIDI device? I believe the issue I'm thinking about was connected to intelligent mode stuff.

I'm mostly clueless on MT-32 stuff so please excuse the weirdly worded question. 😅

I believe you should be able to run MUNT or possibly MT32 Pi which uses the actual ROM data and works like a real MT32.

Cool! Thanks for the quick answer!👍

Reply 47 of 385, by stacker139

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Is it a good idea or not?
the waveblaster header has a Midi out pin (wavetable board to sound card). this pin is rarely used on wavetable boards (one card to my knowledge).
Is it possible to transform this pin into midi IN in the WP32 McCake module and thus have a total of two midi INs?
This would allow to use one / two instances of Munt (ex: MT32 + CM32L) or / and a synth soundfont and / or one / two softsynth ....

Orpheus and AWE64 Legacy sound cards provide two UART / Midi each.
With a few modifications on these cards, imagine the capabilities that would be available if they were used together in the same PC… with two WP32 McCake modules of course.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 48 of 385, by SScorpio

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stacker139 wrote on 2020-12-11, 11:15:
Is it a good idea or not? the waveblaster header has a Midi out pin (wavetable board to sound card). this pin is rarely used on […]
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Is it a good idea or not?
the waveblaster header has a Midi out pin (wavetable board to sound card). this pin is rarely used on wavetable boards (one card to my knowledge).
Is it possible to transform this pin into midi IN in the WP32 McCake module and thus have a total of two midi INs?
This would allow to use one / two instances of Munt (ex: MT32 + CM32L) or / and a synth soundfont and / or one / two softsynth ....

Orpheus and AWE64 Legacy sound cards provide two UART / Midi each.
With a few modifications on these cards, imagine the capabilities that would be available if they were used together in the same PC… with two WP32 McCake modules of course.

What would the purpose be for running multiple instances? MT32 Pi already has sysex command switching that lets you switch between three MT32 ROM sets MT32 old, MT32 new, and CM32L. It also added Fluidsynth support and can run soundfonts and supports sysex switching for those as well. You just have to generally wait 1-2 seconds after issuing the sysex command for things to load.

What additional functionality are you looking for?

Reply 49 of 385, by stacker139

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SScorpio wrote on 2020-12-11, 12:39:
stacker139 wrote on 2020-12-11, 11:15:
Is it a good idea or not? the waveblaster header has a Midi out pin (wavetable board to sound card). this pin is rarely used on […]
Show full quote

Is it a good idea or not?
the waveblaster header has a Midi out pin (wavetable board to sound card). this pin is rarely used on wavetable boards (one card to my knowledge).
Is it possible to transform this pin into midi IN in the WP32 McCake module and thus have a total of two midi INs?
This would allow to use one / two instances of Munt (ex: MT32 + CM32L) or / and a synth soundfont and / or one / two softsynth ....

Orpheus and AWE64 Legacy sound cards provide two UART / Midi each.
With a few modifications on these cards, imagine the capabilities that would be available if they were used together in the same PC… with two WP32 McCake modules of course.

What would the purpose be for running multiple instances? MT32 Pi already has sysex command switching that lets you switch between three MT32 ROM sets MT32 old, MT32 new, and CM32L. It also added Fluidsynth support and can run soundfonts and supports sysex switching for those as well. You just have to generally wait 1-2 seconds after issuing the sysex command for things to load.

What additional functionality are you looking for?

For games purpose, switching should be sufficient.
For musical exploration, two midi inputs allow for example the mixing of different banks / instruments at the same time, etc ... and another universe that we can explore with the capabilities of the RPi CM4.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 50 of 385, by SScorpio

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stacker139 wrote on 2020-12-11, 13:43:

For games purpose, switching should be sufficient.
For musical exploration, two midi inputs allow for example the mixing of different banks / instruments at the same time, etc ... and another universe that we can explore with the capabilities of the RPi CM4.

But how would you mix/control the outputs when there are just single left and right analog audio output for the two devices? Wouldn't the sound card need an additional MPU401 interface to work with the extra MIDI out?

Wouldn't a simple solution just be having two inexpensive sound cards each with their own WP32 McCake?

Reply 51 of 385, by stacker139

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SScorpio wrote on 2020-12-11, 13:50:
stacker139 wrote on 2020-12-11, 13:43:

For games purpose, switching should be sufficient.
For musical exploration, two midi inputs allow for example the mixing of different banks / instruments at the same time, etc ... and another universe that we can explore with the capabilities of the RPi CM4.

But how would you mix/control the outputs when there are just single left and right analog audio output for the two devices?

Just one audio output (L / R) That's the power of the RPi CM4.

SScorpio wrote on 2020-12-11, 13:50:

Wouldn't the sound card need an additional MPU401 interface to work with the extra MIDI out?

Many thanks to the designer of Orpheus and AWE64 legacy sound cards.

SScorpio wrote on 2020-12-11, 13:50:

Wouldn't a simple solution just be having two inexpensive sound cards each with their own WP32 McCake?

There you will fall back into the problem mentioned in your first question.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-12-12, 22:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 52 of 385, by SScorpio

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stacker139 wrote on 2020-12-11, 14:14:

There you will fall back into the problem mentioned in your first question.

I don't believe you understand my first question. With two RPi 4 CMs on a single waveblaster header. How would you control the volume levels of the two separate outputs? You're mixing two analog outputs into a single analog input on the sound card. Adjusting the volume of the input volume on the sound card would affect both. The Rpis are headless, maybe custom sysex message to adjust levels?

With two sounds they would have their own mixers and you could line out one sound card to the line in on the other.

I'm still struggling to understand what the benefit would be? If you are composing music wouldn't you want the sound to stay digital as long as possible and have a single digital to analog conversion at the time of playback which would be possible with a different hardware configuration?

Broken down you are asking for two MIDI outs from a PC going to two separate MIDI modules. Why does that need to be on retro hardware internal to the machine on a single device?

At it's core this project seems like an ultimate gaming MIDI solution as it should be inexpensive. It allows full MT32/CM32L support and with Fluidsynth soundfont will allow customization to allow the best instrument mix per listener and game. All in a single device you can attach to an extremely large number of sound cards. A soundfont version of this has been available for while, but adding MT32 support adds lots of games. Intelligent MIDI is the last limiting issue, but that can be resolved with certain hardware or running softmpu as needed.

Reply 53 of 385, by stacker139

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The project was introduced as a replacement for a product that has become rare and/or expensive.

My vision of this project is that it also gives access, via the waveblaster header, to a nanocomputer running on linux and its software catalog.

If you are a simple gamer, this replacement may be sufficient.
If you are a little more creative, you say to yourself: what more can this solution bring to what already exists?

That was the goal of my sharing in this thread.

Last edited by stacker139 on 2020-12-16, 14:19. Edited 1 time in total.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 54 of 385, by stacker139

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dreamblaster wrote on 2020-12-05, 18:10:

Inching closer,... all soldered, trying to get sound out of it...
Mounted on CHiLL II, a high power CHiLL version for experimental purposes... (more exactly this experiment!)

Glad to see your new baby photo (WP32 McCake). It will be the smartest. Its cradle (CHiLL II) is large. Let's give him toys to stimulate his creativity and develop his brain (Rpi CM4).

There is enough space on CHiLL II to expand the WP32 McCake module (89mm max, it can only grow) and integrate a 2raws xx? pins connector into it and a network socket at the bottom right of the module.

- A connector to allow access to UART, I2C, PCM, SPI and other functions not yet identified.
- A network socket allowing access to the OS of the Rpi CM4 to modify the parameters and/or update the software.

Depending on the end use of the WP McCake, this connector and this network socket will be installed or not:

1/ Use as a Waveblaster, no connector and no network socket (In mom's arms).
2/ Use in CHiLL II box (production version), soldered connector (in his cradle).
3/ Use as a development module: CHiLL II box (Dev. version), Raspberry or any other development base, all soldered (like at school).

How not to imagine the transformation of CHiLL II in the days to come. This will depend, of course, on how the intelligence (Raspberry Pi OS softs) of this newborn will grow.

Our retro sound modules need to behave well because they will be back in service and "in concert".

Last edited by stacker139 on 2020-12-14, 23:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Project: SB-XXXL, Extensive Sound Cards System

Reply 56 of 385, by Dant

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aleksej wrote on 2020-12-14, 14:56:

Wonder what heat level expected, how safe it will be for compact cases that have not so effective cooling or not have it at all?

CM4 should have 6.5W TDP at the worst. The heat it generates should only really be a concern for the CM4 itself, and nothing else in the case. Running MT32 Pi or a soundfont shouldn't be intensive, so downclocking the Pi could be an option, if you're still concerned.

Reply 57 of 385, by gdjacobs

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Dant wrote on 2020-12-14, 20:53:

CM4 should have 6.5W TDP at the worst. The heat it generates should only really be a concern for the CM4 itself, and nothing else in the case. Running MT32 Pi or a soundfont shouldn't be intensive, so downclocking the Pi could be an option, if you're still concerned.

MT32 emulation takes a healthy amount of grunt, but a Pi 2 can handle it. The Pi 4 can undoubtedly be throttled down and still perform fine, although higher performance might still be necessary for huge sound fonts and high polyphony.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder