There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games. I successfully tested it on Jazz Jackrabbit and Tyrian 2k on an i5 8th gen Dell laptop with Intel HDA . Thanks to Baron von Riedesel's spectacular efforts, the sound is working and we have another hurdle overcome on getting DOS sound working baremetal on "modern" HDA cards. This is the link:
https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/VSBHDA/ … e1/vsbhda14.zip

crossposted from DOS Aint dead forum.

Test some 16-bit protected mode games and report here if they're working. Most of the Webfoot DOS games also used 16-bit protected mode.

vico wrote on 2024-03-25, 18:03:

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-03-24, 22:01:

Reports list updated.

Where can I see this list of reports?

OP or my sig.

There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games.

I`m no expert, sorry, is this for any use on older AC97 Systems?

The new VSBHDA also works together now with my PC Speaker. (Previous versions muted the PC Speaker).
Great for Ultima 6 😀

zyzzle wrote on 2024-03-25, 23:02:

There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games. I successfully tested it on Jazz Jackrabbit […]
Show full quote

There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games. I successfully tested it on Jazz Jackrabbit and Tyrian 2k on an i5 8th gen Dell laptop with Intel HDA . Thanks to Baron von Riedesel's spectacular efforts, the sound is working and we have another hurdle overcome on getting DOS sound working baremetal on "modern" HDA cards. This is the link:
https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/VSBHDA/ … e1/vsbhda14.zip

crossposted from DOS Aint dead forum.

Test some 16-bit protected mode games and report here if they're working. Most of the Webfoot DOS games also used 16-bit protected mode.

This is great news. But the test results could be better.
All the games that didn't run before, run now, however:
- Jazz Jackrabbit - I get only some of the FX sounds, like shooting(not all weapons), jumping, bubping(sometimes). No music at all(it's not FM , but PCM, right?)
- Tyrian 2 - sounds in menus work, but when the level starts - the game freezes.
- Chasm the rift - the game runs, but I get no sound.

I tried different combinations of jemmex/himemx with different blaster environment settings.
The laptop is a Thinkpad x60s with Intel HDA. 32 bit version works fine on it.

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-03-26, 08:44:

vico wrote on 2024-03-25, 18:03:

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-03-24, 22:01:

Reports list updated.

Where can I see this list of reports?

OP or my sig.

I figure it'd probably be a bit of extra work but could you put ✅ or ❌ for pass/fail on each one?

megatog615 wrote on 2024-03-26, 15:42:

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-03-26, 08:44:

vico wrote on 2024-03-25, 18:03:

Where can I see this list of reports?

OP or my sig.

I figure it'd probably be a bit of extra work but could you put ✅ or ❌ for pass/fail on each one?

No because it’s mostly a mix of fail and success depending on a game.

Bondi wrote on 2024-03-26, 11:36:

- Jazz Jackrabbit - I get only some of the FX sounds, like shooting(not all weapons), jumping, bubping(sometimes). No music at all(it's not FM , but PCM, right?)
- Tyrian 2 - sounds in menus work, but when the level starts - the game freezes.

Did you download the latest pre-release? There was a problem with Tyrian freezing, but that has been fixed now.

Come to think of it, I also didn't get any music in Jazz. But the effects all came through. I couldn't remember if it used module music or OPL, but I seem to recall it's MOD (ie, PCM) music now. It had been so long since I'd played the game - almost three decades - that I couldn't recall any underscore / music at all in the game. However this didn't play on my config.

Jazz Jackrabbit definitely has MOD tracker music, not FM synth. I believe you could set the mixing/sampling rate in the settings in the menu, to match with the performance of the system. Maybe you can play with that, to see if you can get the music to work that way?

zyzzle wrote on 2024-03-25, 23:02:

There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games. I successfully tested it on Jazz Jackrabbit […]
Show full quote

There is a new version of VSBHDA out which now supports 16-bit protected mode games. I successfully tested it on Jazz Jackrabbit and Tyrian 2k on an i5 8th gen Dell laptop with Intel HDA . Thanks to Baron von Riedesel's spectacular efforts, the sound is working and we have another hurdle overcome on getting DOS sound working baremetal on "modern" HDA cards. This is the link:
https://github.com/Baron-von-Riedesel/VSBHDA/ … e1/vsbhda14.zip

crossposted from DOS Aint dead forum.

Test some 16-bit protected mode games and report here if they're working. Most of the Webfoot DOS games also used 16-bit protected mode.

Would this help make the sound work on the ZSNES and Rained as well?

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-03-05, 19:00:

A lot of the newer Dell laptops have Legacy(BIOS) and UEFI boot modes. […]
Show full quote

rasteri wrote on 2023-03-05, 17:23:

zyzzle wrote on 2023-03-05, 15:56:

I think about the fastest modern system we'll see able to run SBEMU natively is a 9th or 10th gen Core i9 system. Everything beyond that will sadly be impossible outside of an emulation / VM due to the terrible decision made by Intel and Microsoft to delete BIOS legacy code.

Any idea what CPU/chipset is the last one with a normal BIOS?

A lot of the newer Dell laptops have Legacy(BIOS) and UEFI boot modes.

As long as the BIOS has the legacy boot mode, you should be able to use DOS on it though you are going to be stuck using PCIe to PCI adapters in order to get stuff like 3dfx cards and VESA video modes working.

What would be cool is if FreeDOS was actually updated to support UEFI boot and also bug fixed to fix other issues that have apparently been around forever.

I have a 7th gen intel i5 equipped dell xps 15, with nvidia gpu.

Sadly, the vesa driver baked in is premium dogshit, and does very stupid stuff. It cant even handle testing of the modes it claims to provide.

(Otherwise, setting up a memdisk based boot entry to start from grub2 would be a fun and profitable weekend project. This laptop has 32bg of ram installed, but jemmex can be told to limit this so that nothing balks.)

While not the scope of this project, an excellent companion project would be a modern revival of univbe for the 'modern' IGPs found in the target system generation (2005 to 2015, being about the sweetspot, it seems), as the combination would be very powerful.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-03-28, 13:41:

While not the scope of this project, an excellent companion project would be a modern revival of univbe for the 'modern' IGPs found in the target system generation (2005 to 2015, being about the sweetspot, it seems), as the combination would be very powerful.

Yes, new univbe would be nice. But there's problem that newer (at least nvidia) GPU abandoned full VGA compatabity at IO registers level so it would need more than just a new VBE implementation but also some port trapping and emulation. Problem is that modern GPUs are magnitudes more complex and less documented than HDA standard 🙁

The samesaid xps15 boots and runs off the on-die intel igp, until switched to.

I presume this to be the case with most machines with intel silicon of the target generation.

As such, simply targeting the 'i915 compatible interfaces' would in and of itself, be a massive boon for DOS gaming. (others to target would be early radeon/ati graphics with bad vesa drivers)

But that's enough OT for here. 😁

wierd_w wrote on 2024-03-28, 13:41:

I have a 7th gen intel i5 equipped dell xps 15, with nvidia gpu. […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-03-05, 19:00:

A lot of the newer Dell laptops have Legacy(BIOS) and UEFI boot modes. […]
Show full quote

rasteri wrote on 2023-03-05, 17:23:

Any idea what CPU/chipset is the last one with a normal BIOS?

A lot of the newer Dell laptops have Legacy(BIOS) and UEFI boot modes.

As long as the BIOS has the legacy boot mode, you should be able to use DOS on it though you are going to be stuck using PCIe to PCI adapters in order to get stuff like 3dfx cards and VESA video modes working.

What would be cool is if FreeDOS was actually updated to support UEFI boot and also bug fixed to fix other issues that have apparently been around forever.

I have a 7th gen intel i5 equipped dell xps 15, with nvidia gpu.

Sadly, the vesa driver baked in is premium dogshit, and does very stupid stuff. It cant even handle testing of the modes it claims to provide.

(Otherwise, setting up a memdisk based boot entry to start from grub2 would be a fun and profitable weekend project. This laptop has 32bg of ram installed, but jemmex can be told to limit this so that nothing balks.)

While not the scope of this project, an excellent companion project would be a modern revival of univbe for the 'modern' IGPs found in the target system generation (2005 to 2015, being about the sweetspot, it seems), as the combination would be very powerful.

Some of these newer GPU do no even have full VGA compatibility, AFAICR, so that might be something worth looking at in addition to VESA issues.

That being said, if we keep going in that kind of direction, while we may still be running DOS on baremetal, with increasing tmemulation of I/O perioherals (sound, video and probably others), a retro focused virtual machine might start looking more practical while still being close to baremetal CPU performance. I write this in the context of BIOS/CSM being on the cusp extinction in favor of pure UEFI, which will pose further challenges to running DOS on baremetal on newer machines. Please don't take this as a critique or a put down, but only as a reflection on a practical aspect of things (and if we all wanted to be purely practical, we would likely not be in this hobby).

That being said, more options are always a good thing and the work being done on the audio front for DOS compatibility is marvelous and very useful.

EDIT: @RayeR , you beat me to it on VGA (in)compatibility

The intel igp is 'not that great' but does seem to support the normal vga modes, including 'mode X' just fine.

The 'stupid shit' happens when you try a vesa mode.

zyzzle wrote on 2024-03-27, 13:34:

Bondi wrote on 2024-03-26, 11:36:

- Jazz Jackrabbit - I get only some of the FX sounds, like shooting(not all weapons), jumping, bubping(sometimes). No music at all(it's not FM , but PCM, right?)
- Tyrian 2 - sounds in menus work, but when the level starts - the game freezes.

Did you download the latest pre-release? There was a problem with Tyrian freezing, but that has been fixed now.

Come to think of it, I also didn't get any music in Jazz. But the effects all came through. I couldn't remember if it used module music or OPL, but I seem to recall it's MOD (ie, PCM) music now. It had been so long since I'd played the game - almost three decades - that I couldn't recall any underscore / music at all in the game. However this didn't play on my config.

Yes, I used the latest 1.4 pre-release version.
After fiddling with setup I finally got Jazz Jackrabbit working with music and effects. The volume is very low, however. VOL setting of the TSR is 8.
I founf another 16 bit PM game, which is Dig it! And it also worked, both music(FM) and FX. Also very low volume.
Tyrian still feezes, after the "good luck" message (:
Chasm - no sound.

I have also problem with very low output volume (maybe 10x lower than SBEMU or MPXplay) on my SB Audigy. I though it was just a specific issue of mixer setting of my soundcard type...

I have the same issue on the Toshiba I have pressed into service for this. (it at least, has "Functional" VBE present)

With audio volume flag set to 9, it is "at what I would consider 40% volume", and not really sufficient at all for OPL music.

digger wrote on 2024-03-27, 23:12:

Jazz Jackrabbit definitely has MOD tracker music, not FM synth. I believe you could set the mixing/sampling rate in the settings in the menu, to match with the performance of the system. Maybe you can play with that, to see if you can get the music to work that way?

I got Jazz Jackrabbit working perfectly with the music in SB16 mode, and -F44100 option of VSBHDA. Had to switch from an emulated IRQ of 7 to 5 to get it working on my Dell laptop (Kaby Lake, 8th gen i5, with ALC259 Reaktek HDA PCI sound).

As to ZSNES, it works for me with sound in the normal 32-bit protected mode of SBEMU / VSBHDA.

RayeR wrote on 2024-03-28, 16:23:

I have also problem with very low output volume (maybe 10x lower than SBEMU or MPXplay) on my SB Audigy. I though it was just a specific issue of mixer setting of my soundcard type...

Did you see this posted on Dos Ain't Dead, posted by Japheth?

It's not "halved", it's using kind of a "geometric mean", looks rather complicated ( because the sample values are "signed"):

1for( i = 0; i < samples * 2; i++ ) {
2   int a = (*(pPCM+i) * (int)voicevol / 256) + 32768;    /* convert to 0-65535 */
3   int b = (*(pOPLPCM+i) * (int)midivol / 256 ) + 32768; /* convert to 0-65535 */
4   int mixed = (a < 32768 || b < 32768) ? ((a*b)/32768) : ((a+b)*2 - (a*b)/32768 - 65536);
5   *(pPCM+i) = (mixed > 65535 ) ? 0x7fff : mixed - 32768;
6}

IIRC crazii found this somewhere on "stackoverflow". I will happily adjust vsbhda if you know something better.

So, it's because the "geometric mean" of two inputs is limiting the effective output to ~50% of max when both OPL and PCM audio is emulated. Not sure if one can disable one or the other for increase in volume, but Japheth replied that the mixer still runs in the background emitting silence....